Article: Haley Could Fill Essential Role In Twins' Bullpen

[bird]

I see Mejia as a solid option for the relief corps myself. The scouts say he's maxed out his development and has little or no projection left. That puts him squarely in the 5th starter long relief category, and it'd be wonderful if we had five better options than him for the rotation all year long.

[VikingGuy]

 

I had higher hopes for the top rule 5 pick than "potentially expendable mop up guy."

The success of Johan Santana has really skewed people's idea of Rule 5 value. What's being thrown around here is about all you can reasonably hope for from a Rule 5 pick.  I love Haley in that long relief role.  I also completely agree with leaving Duffey, Berrios and Mejia at AAA so they can start.  I still believe Duffey's long-term value will be in the bullpen, but let's see this whole starting thing out with him.

[mikelink45]

 

You're absolutely spot on. I see little immediate hope myself. The hope will be for the most part in Chattanooga's rotation, in the quick insertion of Berrios into the rotation, in a fast and steady progression at the MLB level by May and Berrios, and in the readiness of Mejia, Duffey, and/or Gonsalves to step in and acceptably fill the role of back-end starter.

 

I think anyone investing a great deal of hope in the resurgence of Hughes or even positive regression (let alone improvement) from Gibson is risking disappointment. Santiago? Blah.

Not only do we agree, but I am a birdwatcher and ran an Audubon Center for 38 years, so where does your handle come from?  Surely not the Orioles, Blue Jays, Cardinals.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

To be fair, though, we have to acknowledge that the talent level has been underwhelming since the pool was shrunk. We're not seeing the Darren O'Days and Hector Rodons with regularity, and this type would represent our highest hopes. The last two Rule 5 pitchers to stick for a season were named Joe Biagini and Matt Bowman. So maybe Justin Haley is as good as it gets these days?

To be fair, Biagini in particular and Bowman were pretty good last year, in much higher leverage than Pressly and Graham were used in their rookie seasons.

 

Hey -- Deolis Guerra stuck as a Rule 5 pick last year too! He had a little success too, again in higher leverage than Pressly or Graham.

 

But yeah, Rule 5 is pretty slim pickings. I don't have a problem with Haley, although I do understand the concern that maybe we could have gambled on someone a little more exciting with the top pick.

[Boom Boom]

I'm of the opinion that the Rule 5 is not a reliable source of talent, and that carrying a Rule 5 draftee is usually a poor allocation of a roster spot. Best of luck to him though.

[by jiminy]

I know Rule 5 picks are by definition not your top players, but having the top pick in the draft should still count for something. Because surely one team has 41 good players in their system. That's all it takes -- one team.   Of course most teams' 41st player isn't going to do much. But in any given year at least one team should have such a loaded system that their top non-protected guy has real talent.   I'm not saying Haley is that guy, but I wouldn't assume no one will ever strike gold again.

[Lee-The-Twins-Fan]

 

I think that Haley has higher ceiling than that.  Really.  His floor is a mop up guy, which might be higher than Hector Santiago's or Phil Hughes's this season.  Both of these guys have problems so far and I would not write their names in stone for the rotation.   Hughes admitted that he has not been throwing at 100% (and will not for another 2 starts) and his FB is sitting at 87-88 now.  Will figure out more about Hughes in a couple weeks.  Saturday is really big for Santiago, if he repeats his first start debacle before he leaves the team for 3 weeks, he is the one who at best will be the mop up guy (his contract is not guaranteed, thus the "at best", the Twins have other options with him.)

I don't often agree with you, Thrylos, so relish it. I agree that Haley has got a much higher ceiling than that of a mop-up guy. I see him actually in the rotation for part of 2017. But to start the year, at least, it's a good role for him. 

 

But I suspect if Santiago continues to falter, he'll be released rather than put in long relief.

 

 

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I think given how poorly this team pitched last season a 13 man pitching staff is a necessary evil.

not in April with all of the off days, however I see it as an eventuality. Chief and I have a wager on a frosty beverage of choice if the majority of games played before September roster expansions will have a 13 man staff. I have the over. Edited March 3, 2017 by Sconnie

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I too think it would be better if this person had options, and could be swapped out with another pitcher or two. The bullpen, imo, should be made up of a couple of elite guys, and 6-8 guys that can be swapped back and forth to AAA.

agreed, but I think the limit here is depth. However, Tom brought up the concept of fire sale around the all star break, which should help.

[Mr. Brooks]

I get that, but I also wonder why. By definition, the Rule 5 is a draft of players that another team didn't put on their 40 man roster (much less their 25 man roster).

The fact that Rule V picks are so likely to be swings and misses anyway is precisely why I would take the player with the highest ceiling every time.

[Bill Brown69]

I do agree, they need someone to fill this kind of role. I'd just prefer it be someone you can move to the minors if/when needed.

 

If it becomes an issue just let Haley go back to Boston and it really didn't cost you much. However that is the key. If he pitches 25 innings early with a 4.8 era in mop and we need somebody to replace him then replace him and let him walk. Don't look at the cost in $$$ but just tell yourself that pitcher xyz that you did't have to abuse that way doesn't need TJ. Sometimes you really just need to focus on how much you can lose in a day, not what you make.

[HitInAPinch]

 

because you need Berrios stretched out. Hughes is coming off surgery, May had back issues last year, Gibson lost some significant time last year as well. Santana was healthy last year, but getting advanced in his career. At best you only need one starter on the Rochester shuttle, but will at points need two. If Berrios and Duffey are in the Pen and the rotation is Santana, Gibson, Santiago, May, Hughes. All you got left on the 40 man is Mejia. Are you going to put R. Rosario and Romero on the active roster? I'm not.

Meanwhile May, Gibson, Santiago and Hughes are all making short starts. Duffey and Berrios are not exactly workhorses (yet) either. Hughes circa 2014 was, but coming off injury he probably won't be logging 180 innings this year. How do you keep from destroying the bullpen?

I like the idea of a long man for this Twins team. I like the idea of two long men on this team, and would rather Hughes be in the pen with Haley and both of them pitch multiple innings w/ Berrios in the rotation, but that necessitates a 13 man pitching staff to start the season.

Berrios needs to be 'stretched out'?  Hasn't he been a starter during his entire MiLB career? 

 

If the starting staff is making short starts, it would be of benefit for Berrios to be in the Twins bullpen because:

1. He has worked up to starter-quality innings:  something like 6.5 in MiLB starts.  With this staff, there will probably plenty of innings available.
2. There are enough power arms available to get the Twins out of a tough spot and let Berrios enter the game in a new inning
3. Berrios needs work on some of his mechanics [tipping his pitches].  He should be working with Allen and against MLB hitters. 

IMHO:  I just don't really see anything to gain in sending Berrios down again. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Berrios needs to be 'stretched out'? Hasn't he been a starter during his entire MiLB career?

 

If the starting staff is making short starts, it would be of benefit for Berrios to be in the Twins bullpen because:

• He has worked up to starter-quality innings: something like 6.5 in MiLB starts. With this staff, there will probably plenty of innings available.
• There are enough power arms available to get the Twins out of a tough spot and let Berrios enter the game in a new inning
• Berrios needs work on some of his mechanics [tipping his pitches]. He should be working with Allen and against MLB hitters.

IMHO: I just don't really see anything to gain in sending Berrios down again.

if you put Berrios in the bullpen, even as the long man, he will become in very short order "no longer stretched out". It takes pretty much all of spring training to stretch him out. When the long man makes a spot start, it's usually 3-4 innings and taxes the bullpen heavily. It takes 3 or so starts from there to get him back up to 6-7 innings, so your bullpen is shot for the better part of a month.

 

I agree that he should be working with Allen as a starter. It's best for him and the long term health of the club.

 

In the short term, there isn't enough depth behind him and May and I think Levine will protect his depth. Only one of May or Berrios will make the opening day rotation, the other I predict will go to AAA rotation. Since May has had more success than Berrios, I think he'll win.

 

I think both Berrios and May will be in the big league rotation fairly quickly in the season due to injury or ineffectiveness.

[jud6312]

I'm excited to see what the kid's got. If they can get Graham or Pressly-like results out of him, and it keeps higher upside guys like Mejia, Berrios, May, Gonsalves, etc. out of that spot, it's a win.

 

I'm more interested in seeing if a young guy that could be around more than a year can do the job rather than a retread like Vogelsong.

 

If this year is that of a mop-up role, so be it. Having 4 starters - assuming the starting 5 is what Tom suggested - that throw lots of pitches, but not many innings should allow him plenty of opportunities to develop.

 

The one drawback I see is that with the amount of innings I see that swing guy having to throw, he could get overused and become less effective.

 

It could be a revolving door out of necessity in that role this year.