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Twins All-Time 25-man roster

biggentleben

By biggentleben
in Minnesota Twins Talk

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biggentleben FCL Twins

biggentleben

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So, as part of some of the projects we do with Call To The Pen, I was assigned to put together the Twins all-time 25-man roster.

 

I'm thinking along these lines for candidates:

 

C - Joe Mauer, Earl Battey

1B - Harmon Killebrew, Joe Judge, Kent Hrbek

2B - Rod Carew, Buddy Myer

3B - Eddie Yost

SS - Joe Cronin, Zoilo Versalles

LF - Goose Goslin

CF - Kirby Puckett, Clyde Milan

RF - Sam Rice, Tony Oliva, Bob Allison

SP - Walter Johnson, Bert Blyleven, Brad Radke, Johan Santana, Jim Kaat

Bullpen - Joe Nathan, Rick Aguilera, Camilo Pascual, Dutch Leonard

 

Any thoughts?

Thegrin First Round Pick

Thegrin

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I agree. Although they are part of the franchise legacy, they are not part of the Twins experience. Lets keep this to Twins players only.

Thrylos St Paul Saints

Thrylos

Old-Timey Member
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If you are including the franchise best got to include Heinie Manush, he is a Hall of Famer.

 

The other question is are you looking for the players with the best performance as members of the Twins' franchise, or for the best players to ever wear the Twins' uniform (e.g. Molitor, Winfield, Carlton should be included if the second is true.)?  

 

If you are looking for performance in a Twins  uniform only and only the Minnesota years.  Gleeman wrote this for SABR, and likely answers all your questions.

 

SP - Pascual and Viola were better than Radke btw.

biggentleben FCL Twins

biggentleben

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They are part of the organization's history, and a Senators-only team would technically include two different organizations. Pascual wouldn't make either a Twins-only or a Senators-only list, but he's a sure-fire guy that has to be involved on a combined one.

 

It'd be a different ballgame to do a Twins only...

 

C - Mauer, Battey

1B - Hrbek, Morneau

2B - Rod Carew, Knoblauch

3B - Killebrew, Gaetti

SS - Smalley, Versalles

OF - Puckett, Oliva, Allison, Torii Hunter, Tovar

SP - Blyleven, Radke, Santana, Kaat, Viola

RP - Nathan, Aguilera, Guardado, Perkins, Jim Perry

 

The toughest picks:

- Battey vs. Brian Harper, very similar Twins bWAR (14.3 to 13.4), Harper led the 1991 WS squad, but Battey has the aspect of being an African-American catcher in the 1960s, which is a fairly big deal as well.

 

- Shortstop. Smalley has a fairly significant lead on anyone else in the org in career production, but Versalles and Gagne were on successful teams.

 

- Infield. My personal feelings for Hrbek aside, both Killebrew and Carew have arguments to play first instead, and Knoblauch is a top 7 guy for Twins career bWAR for position players in only 6 seasons in the organization.

 

- Final bench spot. Tovar's infield/outfield versatility won over taking the "other shortstop" between Gagne and Versalles for me.

 

In pitching, the only real question I considered was using Liriano rather than Perry as Liriano truly did work as a swing man in his career.

biggentleben FCL Twins

biggentleben

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If you are including the franchise best got to include Heinie Manush, he is a Hall of Famer.

 

The other question is are you looking for the players with the best performance as members of the Twins' franchise, or for the best players to ever wear the Twins' uniform (e.g. Molitor, Winfield, Carlton should be included if the second is true.)?  

 

If you are looking for performance in a Twins  uniform only and only the Minnesota years.  Gleeman wrote this for SABR, and likely answers all your questions.

 

SP - Pascual and Viola were better than Radke btw.

 

Just stats/performance with the organization. I did look hard at Manush, but it's hard to fit him in on the overall org one.

 

Value statistics would debate the Radke stance. Many threw shade on him, but Radke is very near the top-rated pitcher in the history of the Twins-only end of the franchise. He had 45.6 bWAR in his Twins career. Blyleven is the only guy ahead of him with 49.3 as a Twin. Include in the Senators, and the only guy who is added in is Johnson. Many Twins fans drastically underrate just how quality Radke was for a long time for the Twins.

mikelink45 Minnesota Twins

mikelink45

Old-Timey Member
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I am pleased to see Battey as the second catcher.  We talk about vet presence and in an era when racism was still rampant on the field Battey handled Latin pitchers like Pascual and Ramos and black pitchers like Mudcat Grant as well as Kaat and other pitchers with equal ability.  He was ahead of his time in controlling the field and it is hard to use the WAR and current analytics to capture his true worth to the team.  I enjoyed watching him play in all aspects.

I also remember both Vic Power and Mudcat Grant as really exciting players for the Twins for their short duration and Bernie Allen was an enjoyable player as a second baseman.  

It is hard to compare eras - complete games in the early Twins years wore down players like Pascual and Ramos.  They pitched long and often (4 man rotation) and we do not have a good system that would eliminate the innings 7 - 9 runs and hits that current rotation pitchers do not face since we are asking for only 5 - 6 innings per start.  

 

Gleeman's top fifty Twins column is fun and I appreciate having it posted here.  

 

I am like so many who want to take the Senators off the list.  I love the old ballplayers, but the Twins have been here over 50 years and have their own history.   They are not tainted by the pre-integration period and provide us with a sense of team that is only hinted at when we refer to pitchers like Johnson who may have been the best pitcher ever, but was definitely not a TWIN.

 

Doomtints FCL Twins

Doomtints

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One other thought and this has been a thing for a while but the title,,,,, Twins means Minnesota,,,,,, franchise can mean Senators IF you want.

 

The Twins claim the historical records of the Senators as part of their property.  The history counts.

stringer bell Cooperstown

stringer bell

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On the franchise list, I thought Gaetti was better than Yost (I may be shorting Yost, I remember him from the end of his career). I definitely think Pascual was better than Radke (Viola too).

 

Twins only:  Perry was a true swing man and I wonder if Al Worthington might be due some love, even though relief pitchers were used much differently then.

 

These are my takes devoid of statistics, just from memory.

 

 

Brock Beauchamp GOAT

Brock Beauchamp

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SP - Pascual and Viola were better than Radke btw.

I'd take Radke over Viola for sure. Viola had a higher peak but it was only two seasons. Radke had six 4+ rWAR seasons with the Twins, two of them peaking over 6 rWAR (and another very close at 5.8).

 

I guess it boils down to "peak vs. career". I'll take career if the peak was only two seasons (which were extremely good, don't get me wrong).

 

Pascual is a bit tougher, though I still probably lean Radke because Pascual played a significant portion of his career in Washington, where he had his best season overall.

 

And Pascual played in Minnesota just six seasons, three of which hovered between bad and terrible. His other three seasons were very good, though.

 

edit: I see we're including time spent in Washington. Then I may give the nod to Pascual over Radke. But it's still a difficult decision. Both Pascual and Viola were horrible pitchers for a long stretch of their careers. The same cannot be said for Radke, whose worst seasons were just a touch below "average league starter".

biggentleben FCL Twins

biggentleben

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On the franchise list, I thought Gaetti was better than Yost (I may be shorting Yost, I remember him from the end of his career). I definitely think Pascual was better than Radke (Viola too).

 

Twins only:  Perry was a true swing man and I wonder if Al Worthington might be due some love, even though relief pitchers were used much differently then.

 

These are my takes devoid of statistics, just from memory.

 

Yost also had one of the best nicknames in franchise history - "The Walking Man". Before Moneyball, he was a guy posting 20%+ walk rates, which is pretty incredible.

 

Perry was put as swing man for that reason. Liriano in consideration for lefty purposes. Worthington was definitely in consideration as well.

GP830 Draft Eligible

GP830

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If we are limited to just the Twins, I vote for Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen at 2nd base and shortstop.

Gotta have Mary-Kate at the keystone...

biggentleben FCL Twins

biggentleben

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Not enough HUSTLE and GRIT on this all-time roster IMO. Find a way to put super utility man Nick Punto on this and we're cooking with fire. 

 

My first draft was:

 

C - Pierzynski

1B - Mientkiewicz

2B - Rivas

3B - Punto

SS - Guzman

OF - Tyner, Gomez, Mohr

SP - Silva

RP - JC Romero

 

Figured that would destroy the internet due to the tails that would have battled off in reading the article, so I had to reboot.

biggentleben FCL Twins

biggentleben

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I'd swap Blackburn for Silva.

Carlos was actually really good one season. We don't want that kind of stink influencing the other players.

 

True. I seriously mind blanked on Blackburn. Likely one of those PTSD things.

Shaitan FCL Twins

Shaitan

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My first draft was:

 

C - Pierzynski

1B - Mientkiewicz

2B - Rivas

3B - Punto

SS - Guzman

OF - Tyner, Gomez, Mohr

SP - Silva

RP - JC Romero

 

Figured that would destroy the internet due to the tails that would have battled off in reading the article, so I had to reboot.

On their best days I would be so happy with this. That's why I love baseball. (Well, Tyner is pushing it. Can we say Jacque Jones instead?)

Thrylos St Paul Saints

Thrylos

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My first draft was:

 

C - Pierzynski

1B - Mientkiewicz

2B - Rivas

3B - Punto

SS - Guzman

OF - Tyner, Gomez, Mohr

SP - Silva

RP - JC Romero

 

Figured that would destroy the internet due to the tails that would have battled off in reading the article, so I had to reboot.

 

 

Tyner has to be the DH.

 

I'd go with Clete Thomas, Becker, and Hockin. 

 

Danny Santana has to be there as well.  Lexi for sure.

 

 

biggentleben FCL Twins

biggentleben

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Tyner has to be the DH.

 

I'd go with Clete Thomas, Becker, and Hockin. 

 

Danny Santana has to be there as well.  Lexi for sure.

 

Oh, I figured Darling Denny would be the leader of the bench!

Dantes929 FCL Twins

Dantes929

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Ok, it was only 5 seasons but I don't know if it can be considered small sample size.  Shane Mack possibly the most underrated player in Twins history had better OBP and OPS than Puckett.   He had better BA, OBP, and OPS than Oliva, Hunter, Allison and Tovar and in some cases way, way better.   Oliva was the only one with a better OPS+ with 131 to Mack's 130.  Tovar's was 100.  

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