Addressing the 25 and 40 man roster

[AJswarley]

With a bad year, we all know that some moves need to be made for next year. My view on Ryan's current lineup have always been poor at best but I bought in on the "rebuilding" idea.

 

Problems with the Big 3.

We have all read and understand the bad contracts of Hughes, Santana, and Nolasco. No need to keep talking about it.

 

25 man moves.

Jepsen

Park

Duffey

Big names that should be out of the lineup for bad play so far. (Duffey needs to go to the pen if he can't pick up another pitch)

Sano will be coming back and it seems best for everyone to see Park go to AAA and work on hitting a high fastball. Jepsen should be cut at this point. Chargois needs to be given a true shot along with a healthy Meyer. Wheeler needs a shot in the meantime, he is a soft tossing lefty but I think he has proven this year that he deserves a look. Rosario might be a better option as a #4 OF.

 

40 man roster.

Protecting: Landa, Melotakis, and Randy Rosario this offseason might have been poor moves when non of them are remotely close to big league play. Mastroinni is a waist of a spot that could be taken by anyone at this point. Logan Schafer should have his spot if anything.

 

Adding to the 40 man.

Beresford has proven he should get a shot, gonsalves, Reginatto, Hildenberger, Palka, Granite are on the border that should be playing in AAA soon. Burdi can't stay healthy but when he is, it should be sink or swim time.

 

If some trades happen, talking Plouffe/ Nunez, I might be time to see what we have in Vargas at DH.

[AJswarley]

Also I haven't looked into who will need to be protected this off season. That will play into the decisions for the 40 man roster.

 

Has anyone looked into who will be on that list?

[Lee-The-Twins-Fan]

I agree with Mastro hogging a spot, and with Beresford deserving a spot.

 

You mentioned Hughes, Santana and Nolasco. Meaning what? Would you trade or release them all? It would be hard to get even one decent starting pitcher, based on the players you mentioned above, for the players you want to trade.

 

I agree that changes need to be made – even with these three - but I'm not sure we have three starting pitchers ready to step in. If two were released or traded, I'd probably keep Santana. At least he had a good year last year and could bounce back. 

 

 

[AJswarley]

I didn't address the problem of the "big 3" at all. But I will say we could still get some good innings out of Santana. Hughes will never be the same player (he has lost to much speed on his fastball) and Nolasco has been arguably our best this year, but needs to go. I am not saying if we get rid of them all that we can put together a great rotation, but can it really get much worse? The previous 3 can only muster about 1 out of 5 quality starts.

 

But let's be honest, the Nolasco and Hughes, contracts would take a miracle to unload on another team, that only leaves Santana. And if we can move him I say we pull the trigger. Let the younger (cheaper) guys fight for it.

[Rosterman]

The only guys would consider adding from AAA are Jason Wheeler, James Beresford. Possibly Wilfredo Tovar. We could add back in anotehr look at Ryan O'Rourke. And Alex Wimmers needs a looksee, or we ask "why have we been chugging along with him all of these years." He probably is about to be a MLFA after this season.

 

Who could make the jump from AA now? Possibly Baxendale, who might be another in a longline of backend starters. Reed should get an add on. Hildenberger is also a possibility. Granite and Palka both need to play AAA and the Twins will look closely at them this off-season. Vielma could get a look, depending on the Polanco/Dozier situation. 

 

Otherwise, that is pretty much it except for those already treading on the 40-man (Vargas, Chargolis, Rosario, Murphy, Walker, Meyer, Berrios. Polanco).

 

The Twins could shuffle thru Darnell or Albers for another look, even at the expense of Dean and Duffy. All fall into the same sort of category...depth.

 

And, Mastro has no business being kept around.

[stringer bell]

Mastro is on the DL. I presume once he's healthy, he will get DFAed.

[FormerMinnasotan]

Don't the Twins have to add Felix Jorge to the 40 man? I thought he had to be added this year to keep him from being a Rule 5 player. I could be wrong...

[shs_59]

My thoughts ( I will post to all similar threads, as we have about 3 threads of similar thoughts/ ideas going right now)

 

Early July  Trade - Eduardo Nunez, Alex Meyer, and Tommy Millone (if he picks it up here)

 

to Astros

 

for:   AAA RHP  Joe Musgrove and a PTBL or cash considerations (maybe Gregerson by August)

 

Late July at the Deadline

Offer up:

 

Trevor Plouffe, Michael Tonkin, Randy Rosario (A+ LHP) , and J.R. Murphy

(I was hoping this would happen before we gave Oswaldo Arcia away to T.B. so we could include/ entice Oswaldo to them for some marginal value)

to Milwakuee

 

for Catcher Jonathan LuCroy and hope to sign him moderate length contract (only catcher in baseball that ranks ahead of Salvador Perez, WIlson Ramos, and Matt Weiters behind only Buster Posey)

 

Off-season

 

Trade Ricky Nolasco and $5 MM to Oakland A's or San Diego Padres for a PTBL or Cash (a C prospect)

 

Oakland would effectively get Nolasco on a 7 Million dollar 1 year deal - not too bad at all for them.

 

Sign Vet LHP Cliff Lee to a $7.5MM 1 yr deal with incentives to spike it upwards of 10 or 11 million.

 

 

the 2017 Twins

 

1. CF Buxton

2. 2B Dozier

3. 1B Mauer

4. 3B Sano

5. C  LuCroy

6. RF Kepler

7. DH Vargas/ Park (-park is my preference)

8. LF Rosario

9. SS Polanco/ Escobar

bench:

Escobar, Santana, Centeno, and Grossman.

 

other 40 roster options, Catchers Stu Turner and Mitch Garver, 1B/RF/DH Dan Palka, DH Vargas, SS Engelb Vielma, OF A.B. Walker

 

Rotation:

1.Kyle Gibson - (a hope and a prayer)

2. Cliff Lee

3. Ervin Santana

4. Joe Musgrove

5. J.O. Berrios

 

AAA :  Tyler Duffey, Pat Dean, Logan Darnell, DJ Baxendale, Aaron Slegers, Jason Wheeler , Ryan Eades?

 

Bullpen:

CL- Gregerson or Greg Holland?

SU - Chargois

SU - Pressly

SL - May

SL - Abad  ( signs a 1 yr $3.25 MM pact)

MR - Hughes

LR - Taylor Rogers

 

AAA: Glen Perkins, Niel Ramirez, Jake Reed, Nick Burdi, Mason Melotakis, Trevor Hildenburger, Alex Wimmers, Wheeler ect.

 

other 40 man roster options include:

 

Tyler Jay, Kohl Stewart, Stephen Gonsalves, and Yorman Landa (what to do with Felix Jorge?)

[stringer bell]

There is a logjam of major league ball players, including two second basemen and two shortstops, why in the world should they add Beresford, unless they have to? Isn't Beresford just more AAAA fodder. He may have a place in the majors, but it shouldn't be with the Twins.

[AJswarley]

My thoughts ( I will post to all similar threads, as we have about 3 threads of similar thoughts/ ideas going right now)

 

Early July Trade - Eduardo Nunez, Alex Meyer, and Tommy Millone (if he picks it up here)

 

to Astros

 

for: AAA RHP Joe Musgrove and a PTBL or cash considerations (maybe Gregerson by August)

 

Late July at the Deadline

Offer up:

 

Trevor Plouffe, Michael Tonkin, Randy Rosario (A+ LHP) , and J.R. Murphy

(I was hoping this would happen before we gave Oswaldo Arcia away to T.B. so we could include/ entice Oswaldo to them for some marginal value)

to Milwakuee

 

for Catcher Jonathan LuCroy and hope to sign him moderate length contract (only catcher in baseball that ranks ahead of Salvador Perez, WIlson Ramos, and Matt Weiters behind only Buster Posey)

 

Off-season

 

Trade Ricky Nolasco and $5 MM to Oakland A's or San Diego Padres for a PTBL or Cash (a C prospect)

 

Oakland would effectively get Nolasco on a 7 Million dollar 1 year deal - not too bad at all for them.

 

Sign Vet LHP Cliff Lee to a $7.5MM 1 yr deal with incentives to spike it upwards of 10 or 11 million.

 

 

the 2017 Twins

 

1. CF Buxton

2. 2B Dozier

3. 1B Mauer

4. 3B Sano

5. C LuCroy

6. RF Kepler

7. DH Vargas/ Park (-park is my preference)

8. LF Rosario

9. SS Polanco/ Escobar

bench:

Escobar, Santana, Centeno, and Grossman.

 

other 40 roster options, Catchers Stu Turner and Mitch Garver, 1B/RF/DH Dan Palka, DH Vargas, SS Engelb Vielma, OF A.B. Walker

 

Rotation:

1.Kyle Gibson - (a hope and a prayer)

2. Cliff Lee

3. Ervin Santana

4. Joe Musgrove

5. J.O. Berrios

 

AAA : Tyler Duffey, Pat Dean, Logan Darnell, DJ Baxendale, Aaron Slegers, Jason Wheeler , Ryan Eades?

 

Bullpen:

CL- Gregerson or Greg Holland?

SU - Chargois

SU - Pressly

SL - May

SL - Abad ( signs a 1 yr $3.25 MM pact)

MR - Hughes

LR - Taylor Rogers

 

AAA: Glen Perkins, Niel Ramirez, Jake Reed, Nick Burdi, Mason Melotakis, Trevor Hildenburger, Alex Wimmers, Wheeler ect.

 

other 40 man roster options include:

 

Tyler Jay, Kohl Stewart, Stephen Gonsalves, and Yorman Landa (what to do with Felix Jorge?)

First Lee has already put out that he will only go to a contender, if he comes back. Holland might also be done with his professional career, time will tell on the healing process. Last of all, Lucroy, great player and I would love to see him in a twins uniform. With that said, it would cost to much to get him, and it would be pointless if we are not making a playoff run.

[USAFChief]

Last of all, Lucroy, great player and I would love to see him in a twins uniform. With that said, it would cost to much to get him, and it would be pointless if we are not making a playoff run.

Not to pick on you, but I often see this sentiment expressed in one form or another, which in my mind equals "it's pointless to get better players until we get better players."

 

That has never made sense to me.

[Seth Stohs]

 

Don't the Twins have to add Felix Jorge to the 40 man? I thought he had to be added this year to keep him from being a Rule 5 player. I could be wrong...

 

Yup, he was eligible for the Rule 5 draft a year ago and no one took him. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Not to pick on you, but I often see this sentiment expressed in one form or another, which in my mind equals "it's pointless to get better players until we get better players."

That has never made sense to me.

To phrase it differently, Lucroy is a 30 year old catcher with concussion issues on a contract that will likely expire before the Twins are a real contender.

 

The Twins haven't been able to win even one of three games this season. If a guy can't help for 2+ seasons, there's little point in picking up that player.

[TheLeviathan]

Especially when said player costs you a handful of other player assets.

[USAFChief]

To phrase it differently, Lucroy is a 30 year old catcher with concussion issues on a contract that will likely expire before the Twins are a real contender.

The Twins haven't been able to win even one of three games this season. If a guy can't help for 2+ seasons, there's little point in picking up that player.

I couldn't disagree more.

 

Waiting around for things to fall in place by themselves is how you get into messes like this.

 

With some luck and some aggression, 2017 doesn't have to be written off. I hope they don't think in terms of 3 to 5 years from now. That's not a plan, that's an admission they don't have a plan.

 

I'd rather they try and fail, than sit around hoping things fix themselves.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I couldn't disagree more.

 

Waiting around for things to fall in place by themselves is how you get into messes like this.

 

With some luck and some aggression, 2017 doesn't have to be written off. I hope they don't think in terms of 3 to 5 years from now. That's not a plan, that's an admission they don't have a plan.

 

I'd rather they try and fail, than sit around hoping things fix themselves.

Pick up Lucroy and you are literally throwing away the money, the prospects, and the player for half a season. That is a fact.

 

The Twins are on pace to win less than 55 games. This is not the time to to pick up players in hopes you win 60 games, especially if it costs you prospects.

 

In November, go buy all the good players you can afford. Have at it. But sacrificing potential 2018 wins to bump the 2016 winning percentage to .400 is insane.

[AJswarley]

Not to pick on you, but I often see this sentiment expressed in one form or another, which in my mind equals "it's pointless to get better players until we get better players."

 

That has never made sense to me.

I could understand if we got him or other great players, if we had a few great players in place. That said we have great talent, but maybe a move like this works in a few years. But would you trade away some possibly great starting players or a potential #2 pitchers for a 30+ year old catcher RIGHT NOW! (Pointless)

[TheLeviathan]

You don't even have to believe the assets you are giving up are future major leaguers, they are just assets.  And advising us to burn those assets on a player that has limited team control and is reaching an age where decline is a real possibility.....that's just a really bad idea.

 

Improving the team via FA makes sense.  You're just burning cash.  Trades require you give up assets and in this case yo'd be giving up multiple assets for one player you have a limited window to retain.

 

That's folly.

[USAFChief]

Pick up Lucroy and you are literally throwing away the money, the prospects, and the player for half a season. That is a fact.

The Twins are on pace to win less than 55 games. This is not the time to to pick up players in hopes you win 60 games, especially if it costs you prospects.

In November, go buy all the good players you can afford. Have at it. But sacrificing potential 2018 wins to bump the 2016 winning percentage to .400 is insane.

First, I was addressing the idea that its pointless to pick up good players when you have a bad team, not Lucroy specifically. I disagree with that philosophy. Strongly. You get better by adding better players, not by waiting until you have better players.

 

But in the specific case of Lucroy, he has a $5M 2017 team option, so it's 1.5 seasons, not .5, and any deal could be contingent on an extension if that helps. And he's a good player, age 30 or not.

 

What's pointless is thinking the Twins minor league system is going to turn this franchise around, on its own.

[TheLeviathan]

At some point it does become "pointless" though.  You're talking about asking three of the guys that should be manning life boats for this Titanic to go slap a new paint job on the ship because, dammit, it's never pointless to make the ship a little better!

 

That mindset is just bad asset management.  It sounds good on a bumper sticker but that's about it.

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

But in the specific case of Lucroy, he has a $5M 2017 team option, so it's 1.5 seasons, not .5, and any deal could be contingent on an extension if that helps. And he's a good player, age 30 or not.

 

I believe Brock meant that Lucroy's half season in Minnesota in 2016 would be wasted, given our position in the standings. So the Twins would really just be getting one useful season of him (barring extension), but of course we would be bidding against teams that could get value out of him for the full season and a half.

 

What would be an acceptable price, to you, to acquire Lucroy in trade right now? I suspect you might construct a low offer, like the other on this thread, which means you more or less agree on this specific case, despite your larger philosophical point.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I believe Brock meant that Lucroy's half season in Minnesota in 2016 would be wasted, given our position in the standings. So the Twins would really just be getting one useful season of him (barring extension), but of course we would be bidding against teams that could get value out of him for the full season and a half.

Yep. Every other team interested in Lucroy will pay a fair price for 1.5 seasons of Jonathan Lucroy because they need 1.5 seasons of Jonathan Lucroy.

 

Which means the Twins need to pay a fair price for 1.5 seasons of Jonathan Lucroy to acquire Jonathan Lucroy.

 

Which is a monumental waste of resources for the Twins. A full 1/3rd of Lucroy's purchase price will be flushed down the toilet the moment he dons a Twins jersey.

 

Whatever you think of prospects, rebuilding, the likelihood of a prospect succeeding, whatever... Prospects are assets and have value. And if you throw away an asset, you deserve to lose your job.

[mikelink45]

I have trouble with this projection because I see so much confusion in the Twins "plans".  I do not know why our minor leaguers have so much trouble adjusting to the majors so my real issue is with the coaching plans - if this site has been accurate in describing all our minor leaguers over the last few years I keep wondering why they are not stars like the cubs and numerous other team rookies.  The other teams deal with age, they bring them in and they produce, but ours come in and struggle.  

 

I would certainly move Jepsen (a long time ago) and many other vets, but can we transition our young players, because what has been written would seem to indicate that we do not have to go crazy with trades and free agents.

[sane17]

Why was catcher John Hicks shipped out early this season?

JR Murphy was a bust, Suzuki was struggling and Hicks' slash line is now .311  .352  .521  .873 in the minors this year.

Was it a personality problem?