Neal: Burdi to start season on DL

[Seth Stohs]

Per LaVelle, Nick Burdi will start the season on the Disabled List due to right forearm tightness. 

 

 

Burdi was shut down for a few days last week because of the tightness, and the club believes the rest helped him recover. But the Twins are going to slowly build him back up before they let him begin his minor league season, so he is out indefinitely.

 

 

As we've seen, forearm issues can eventually lead to elbow issues, so shutting him down for a bit is wise. 

 

Now... we just hope!

[Thrylos]

Hope the best.  And I suppose that they will do an MRI at some point to see what is going on there...

[Seth Stohs]

I would think so though I don't know the plan at this point. Resting it for a bit is really all they can do at this point.

 

But I think we all are on the same page in terms of wishing for the best for him not only because of what he can be on the mound, but just as a person. 

[70charger]

Well this is just crap news. I don't see a way this ends well for him.

[Platoon]

These things seem to have a script. Tight forearm, shut down a bit, optimistic reports, comes back, throw as OK, optimistic reports, TJ surgery!

[blairpaul715]

 

These things seem to have a script. Tight forearm, shut down a bit, optimistic reports, comes back, throw as OK, optimistic reports, TJ surgery!

Not that I like this, but it seems to be the way it rolls, for most of these.........I hope they find out sooner than later , and have it be middle of 2018 before he makes his debut , if at all.

[Seth Stohs]

I'm just guessing that we hear more about the forearm injuries that turn into Tommy John. However, I'm sure there are many cases where it was just a sore, tight forearm and needs a little rest. 

 

It sounds bad, and maybe it's naive to think this way... but until we know more, there's no reason to assume the worst. It's fine to understand and fear the worst, but until it's something it's just information. (or whatever that means)

[clutterheart]

 

but until we know more, there's no reason to assume the worst. 

 

Ive been a Twins fan far to long to not assume the worst

[Craig Arko]

 

Ive been a Twins fan far to long to not assume the worst

Until Kramarczuk's arrived, I always feared the wurst.

[laloesch]

 

These things seem to have a script. Tight forearm, shut down a bit, optimistic reports, comes back, throw as OK, optimistic reports, TJ surgery!

 

 

Didn't he have TJ surgery already.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'm just guessing that we hear more about the forearm injuries that turn into Tommy John. However, I'm sure there are many cases where it was just a sore, tight forearm and needs a little rest.

I don't know about that.  We pretty much hear about all of them that require the player to be shut down for any length of time.  It's not like guys like Ervin Santana, Trevor May, etc. all get shut down with forearm tightness from time to time.  It pretty much never happens unless the guy is hurt.

 

That said, I am sure there are some cases of pitchers, particularly young pitchers, improving with rest, so I won't jump to any crazy conclusions and say he is doomed.  But I think it's fair to downgrade Burdi's chances of appearing in Minnesota this season -- the team probably won't want to promote him until this is safely in his rear view mirror.

[Seth Stohs]

 

Didn't he have TJ surgery already.

 

Nope. 

[Seth Stohs]

Tweet from Darren Wolfson:

 

https://twitter.com/DWolfsonKSTP/status/715892302703624192 

[Mike Sixel]

Well, poop. 

 

this is why I always say, get them up early.....

[Otto von Ballpark]

Hmmm... how much distinction is there between enough "tightness" to shut you down, and "pain"?

 

It's a little weird from a fan's perspective too -- while most of us can understand general athletic maladies like sore legs, hamstring pulls, sprains, etc., pitchers are a weird breed.  The extent to which they rely on one arm (or two, for Pat Venditte ) makes it really hard to understand what they go through physically.  Their arms must feel some level of soreness all the time.  What's a tolerable level of soreness, tightness, pain, etc.?  When do you report it?  When do you get shut down for it?

[Platoon]

Ed Thoma had posted a few weeks ago about Burdi working on a split fingered. Which will raise hell with some peoples arms, and of course not others. Today he wondered if this was a cause? It tis a coincidences!

[nicksaviking]

It's reported as forearm tightness, not forearm pain. I think we're jumping the gun here.

[Platoon]

It's reported as forearm tightness, not forearm pain. I think we're jumping the gun here.

Aren't you getting a little ahead of yourself accusing us of jumping the gun?

[Seth Stohs]

 

Well, poop. 

 

this is why I always say, get them up early.....

 

... so that they can get a little service time pitching in MLB and then use up 1-2 years of MLB service time on the DL?

 

Obviously there's no way to know when a surgery might be needed, and I think the Twins are pushing players faster than they have in recent years...

 

Also, we need to try to be more positive... It might be nothing. Hope!

[Thrylos]

 

Hmmm... how much distinction is there between enough "tightness" to shut you down, and "pain"?

 

It's a little weird from a fan's perspective too -- while most of us can understand general athletic maladies like sore legs, hamstring pulls, sprains, etc., pitchers are a weird breed.  The extent to which they rely on one arm (or two, for Pat Venditte ) makes it really hard to understand what they go through physically.  Their arms must feel some level of soreness all the time.  What's a tolerable level of soreness, tightness, pain, etc.?  When do you report it?  When do you get shut down for it?

 

I think that reporting depends on the player.  There is always muscle tightness, that's why some people ice it after it has been used.  Warming up helps loosen muscles up.  Now if warming up does not loosen muscles up, you better report it, because you risk tears and damage.   Burdi said that he did not experience pain.   Also, soreness and tightness are core muscle issues (like if you do twenty squats your legs would feel tight at a particular point) and are repetitive and you know where is "should be" tight (like in the meaty part of your forearm.)     Now if it hurts around your elbow, or you feel something "pop" over there, is more of a ligament issue.  Got to check to see if Burdi was playing around with a splitter, because that grip can cause forearm stiffness..

[Mike Sixel]

 

... so that they can get a little service time pitching in MLB and then use up 1-2 years of MLB service time on the DL?

 

Obviously there's no way to know when a surgery might be needed, and I think the Twins are pushing players faster than they have in recent years...

 

Also, we need to try to be more positive... It might be nothing. Hope!

 

Well, nearly every national website talks about how teams are bringing up pitchers earlier, because it is generally wear and tear that causes problems. Of course, you may disagree with that trend. I agree with it.

[nater79a]

"Paging Dr. Altchek. Paging Dr. David Altchek. Terry Ryan and Dr. Steubs of the Twins on line 2"

 

...30 seconds of silence...

 

"I'm sorry, Mr. Ryan. Dr. Altchek is currently in the middle of a UCL reconstructive surgery right now. May I have him give you a call back?"

 

Gulp...

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

... so that they can get a little service time pitching in MLB and then use up 1-2 years of MLB service time on the DL?

If the player has major surgery, generally the service time issue is the least of team's concerns later.  It certainly didn't matter for Kubel, Liriano, etc.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

... so that they can get a little service time pitching in MLB and then use up 1-2 years of MLB service time on the DL?

 

Obviously there's no way to know when a surgery might be needed, and I think the Twins are pushing players faster than they have in recent years...

 

Also, we need to try to be more positive... It might be nothing. Hope!

But this makes it sound like the reason the Twins didn't call up Burdi is because they were clairvoyant and knew that he would need TJ surgery anyway.

 

In any case, Noah Syndergaard was sidelined with forearm tightness last spring. He ended up pitching in the World Series

[gunnarthor]

Dang.  Well, hope he gets better.

[Thrylos]

Mike Berardino has a new writeup on the subject.   Unfortunately he described what Burdi had not as "tightness", but as "mild inflammation" and indicated that he has not been throwing for 2 weeks... 

[Seth Stohs]

 

If the player has major surgery, generally the service time issue is the least of team's concerns later.  It certainly didn't matter for Kubel, Liriano, etc.

 

Yes, I realize that. The injury is the bigger issue.

 

I was just giving Mike a hard time since he said the Twins should have called him up a long time ago because at some point he was going to get hurt. Obviously there is no real way to know when that is going to happen, so teams don't intentionally wait to add players to a 40-man roster or to the big leagues because of injury.

[Mike Sixel]

I did not say they should have called him up. I said as a general rule, pitchers should come up early. But, it seemed like I said that......I just hope he is ok.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

I did not say they should have called him up. I said as a general rule, pitchers should come up early. But, it seemed like I said that......I just hope he is ok.

I absolutely agree with this in most cases as well. I realize that every pitcher and situation is different and that there is more gray area than black and white. However, I completely believe that leaving hitters in the minors to save on service time is generally a wise business and competitive idea, but that doing so with pitchers generally is not. 

 

Recent evidence shows that pitchers velocity and often 'stuff' declines already in their low twenties, and then fairly consistently in their mid-upper twenties. The wear and tear of pitching more in their youth has lead to extra mileage than in the past, and has lead to more injuries of the elbows and shoulders. Waiting for guys to be be a finished product in terms of refinement more than often can lead to injury, plateauing, or declining before they ever get their. If you do wait for a pitcher to be sufficiently refined and it takes too long you may very well be left with a pitcher that is at peak performance, but likely is not going to improve any, and will likely decline over time.

 

The environment and resources of data, video, coaching, other successful pitchers, and medical staff at the MLB likely bring the opportunity to the hardest workers to succeed even more than they did in the minors. This goes for both sides of the ball, and several guys have proved this and even mentioned it as the reason for their success, like Conforto and McCullers...the environment allowed them to improve. 

 

I believe that guys with good 'stuff' and velocity should be moved up more quickly because often this is the main source of their success and it plays at ALL levels, and allows for more mistakes. Guys that are not blessed with great velocity and 'stuff' should be moved up more slowly because they NEED to be a finished product to succeed and the lack of stuff and velocity means that they are also less likely to end up injured. 

 

Their are teams that are more careful and their are teams that move guys up quickly. The teams that move guys up quickly also seem to realize that these guys best years seem to come before they ever hit free agency, and often decline after that. This knowledge also seems to lead these teams to be less reluctant to part ways with these pitchers before it comes to that free agency decision comes, and they are not afraid to flip them for other future or current assets. The A's seemed to have figured this out long ago, but the Cardinals stand out more recently. Even the Whitesox with their pair of good lefties. Of course, sometimes it works out and sometimes not, but that is just as much the case if left in the minors, and you can always send them back down if it is very clear they are not ready over a DECENT sample size and settling in. It is best to think of pitchers as replaceable girlfriends and hitters as wives you are committed to in a way.

 

You can't just assume that a pitcher is going to have a linear improvement line because they are marinating in the minors. That might happen, but it might not due to many physical, mental, emotional, and environmental factors. I feel it is best to be very aggressive with guys with good stuff and velocity when they are having success and only slowing or backstopping IF some major hiccup shows up. 

 

If guys succeed their way to the majors, they should be given ample time to settle in and learn. If they prove they are not ready over time, then send them back down, and bring them back when ready. But, don't say they aren't ready and waste their talent if you do not know that through seeing it. 

 

What if Meyer would have improved and succeeded due to all of those resources in the MLB mentioned earlier? Was he given enough time to use them and to settle in? Maybe he just won't improve anymore in the minors and just needs to learn at the higher level to take the next step.

 

What if Berrios was moved to AAA sooner last year, and then to the majors after the super-2 date? Would that have been enough starts for him to have helped us into the playoffs? Throwing in the minors is not any less harmful to his arm than at the majors, and he is not a big kid. Those smaller guys seem to lose their velocity even quicker. What if be leaving him down he just gets injured in one of those last pre-FA years, or his stuff and velocity already starts to decline in them? Will it matter if he is refined then?  

 

Bird matches this too. He is the type of guy that might have similar results at ANY level, but might learn and grow the most at the majors. Not that he IS ready for that, but maybe push him even further ahead. Waiting on him to 'figure it out' seems awful assumptive and waiting forever, so use assets and refine him with the best their is to learn from.

 

Just my philosophy in the grand scale, but of course each situation is different and their is more gray like I mentioned. 

 

[jokin]

 

I absolutely agree with this in most cases as well. I realize that every pitcher and situation is different and that there is more gray area than black and white. However, I completely believe that leaving hitters in the minors to save on service time is generally a wise business and competitive idea, but that doing so with pitchers generally is not. 

 

Recent evidence shows that pitchers velocity and often 'stuff' declines already in their low twenties, and then fairly consistently in their mid-upper twenties. The wear and tear of pitching more in their youth has lead to extra mileage than in the past, and has lead to more injuries of the elbows and shoulders. Waiting for guys to be be a finished product in terms of refinement more than often can lead to injury, plateauing, or declining before they ever get their. If you do wait for a pitcher to be sufficiently refined and it takes too long you may very well be left with a pitcher that is at peak performance, but likely is not going to improve any, and will likely decline over time.

 

The environment and resources of data, video, coaching, other successful pitchers, and medical staff at the MLB likely bring the opportunity to the hardest workers to succeed even more than they did in the minors. This goes for both sides of the ball, and several guys have proved this and even mentioned it as the reason for their success, like Conforto and McCullers...the environment allowed them to improve. 

 

I believe that guys with good 'stuff' and velocity should be moved up more quickly because often this is the main source of their success and it plays at ALL levels, and allows for more mistakes. Guys that are not blessed with great velocity and 'stuff' should be moved up more slowly because they NEED to be a finished product to succeed and the lack of stuff and velocity means that they are also less likely to end up injured. 

 

Their are teams that are more careful and their are teams that move guys up quickly. The teams that move guys up quickly also seem to realize that these guys best years seem to come before they ever hit free agency, and often decline after that. This knowledge also seems to lead these teams to be less reluctant to part ways with these pitchers before it comes to that free agency decision comes, and they are not afraid to flip them for other future or current assets. The A's seemed to have figured this out long ago, but the Cardinals stand out more recently. Even the Whitesox with their pair of good lefties. Of course, sometimes it works out and sometimes not, but that is just as much the case if left in the minors, and you can always send them back down if it is very clear they are not ready over a DECENT sample size and settling in. It is best to think of pitchers as replaceable girlfriends and hitters as wives you are committed to in a way.

 

You can't just assume that a pitcher is going to have a linear improvement line because they are marinating in the minors. That might happen, but it might not due to many physical, mental, emotional, and environmental factors. I feel it is best to be very aggressive with guys with good stuff and velocity when they are having success and only slowing or backstopping IF some major hiccup shows up. 

 

If guys succeed their way to the majors, they should be given ample time to settle in and learn. If they prove they are not ready over time, then send them back down, and bring them back when ready. But, don't say they aren't ready and waste their talent if you do not know that through seeing it. 

 

What if Meyer would have improved and succeeded due to all of those resources in the MLB mentioned earlier? Was he given enough time to use them and to settle in? Maybe he just won't improve anymore in the minors and just needs to learn at the higher level to take the next step.

 

What if Berrios was moved to AAA sooner last year, and then to the majors after the super-2 date? Would that have been enough starts for him to have helped us into the playoffs? Throwing in the minors is not any less harmful to his arm than at the majors, and he is not a big kid. Those smaller guys seem to lose their velocity even quicker. What if be leaving him down he just gets injured in one of those last pre-FA years, or his stuff and velocity already starts to decline in them? Will it matter if he is refined then?  

 

Bird matches this too. He is the type of guy that might have similar results at ANY level, but might learn and grow the most at the majors. Not that he IS ready for that, but maybe push him even further ahead. Waiting on him to 'figure it out' seems awful assumptive and waiting forever, so use assets and refine him with the best their is to learn from.

 

Just my philosophy in the grand scale, but of course each situation is different and their is more gray like I mentioned. 

 

Is it legal to want to marry this post?