Ryan: Sano to the OF

Loosey · December 4, 2015

Usually teams deal from an area of surplus. For the Twins that has recently been CF (Span, Revere, Hicks). In return you try to get an area of need. In my opinion 3rd base is now an area of surplus for the Twins and Trevor Plouffe is expendable. I believe he will be traded by the start of the season. Plouffe currently jams up a lot of roster flexibility, in the same way that Mauer does. The Twins best up and coming player all seem to play the same position (Sano, Park, Kepler - 3rd, 1st, DH) Kepler is a little more flexible due to CF being his natural position, but by removing Plouffe from the equation there instantly are more options and ways combinations to play with on a daily basis. By putting Sano in the outfield you are essentially putting a square peg in round hole because that is the only peg you have left. Long story short I hope Sano doesn't have to play in the OF and Plouffe is traded for something of value.

Loosey · December 4, 2015

This is a quote from Molitor in this morning Trib:

(Can) a large man (260-plus pounds) with zero experience handle a new position? Coach Butch Davis worked with him in the outfield occasionally last season, Molitor said, “to help him get comfortable reading balls, taking angles. It’s a really small foundation that he has, but if the guy is as athletic as we think he is, you hope he can catch the routine fly ball".

So expectations have been set, the bar is high! The only problem with this theory, is that I watched a baseball game once, where someone hit an "unroutine" fly ball!

So essentially the Twins plan is for him to catch balls that are hit right to him, if not he's not expected to catch it. I'm sure the pitching staff loves this.

Major League Ready · December 4, 2015

There is a pretty good chance the Twins feel their OF come June 1st will be Buxton is in center, Kepler in LF, and Rosario in RF? If this is the case, the question becomes how you make the most out of this situation both short and long-term.

If this is the likely case in the minds of the FO, this presents an opportunity to take a look at Arcia. Personally, I think the odds of his succeeding are about 30% but I hate to let him go for nothing only to watch him hit 30 HR/YR for another team. It’s also an opportunity to try Sano in the OF if they believe Sano is suspect at 3B. If they believe Sano will be fine at 3B … get on with it for god sake. Trade Plouffe while you can get something for him. Why alter your plans for a guy likely to be a superstar for a guy who is league average at best. I don’t think they would which leads me to suspect they don’t believe in him a 3B or its posturing.

They could still go get a FA like Austin Jackson. Start the season with Rosario, Jackson, and those who are auditioning for the 3rd spot. Once Buxton and Kepler are up you have a high-class problem of what to do with the excess IF everyone works out.

Here is a long shot but interesting scenario … Park exceeds expectations, Arcia rebounds and is hitting well above league average while Mauer is stinking it up. Would they finally put Joe on the shelf, put Park at 1B, and Arcia at DH?

Hosken Bombo Disco · December 4, 2015

Sano's natural position isn't 3B.

You are right. It was shortstop. My mistake

h2oface · December 4, 2015

You are right. It was shortstop. My mistake

I don't know that just because someone had Sano start at shortstop, that that becomes his "natural" position. It reminds me of taking my sons to the first band meeting in grade school, and they had the kids try to blow the instruments (not a lot had changed since the 60's)...... and just because someone could get a sound out of a trumpet first, they became a trumpet player, or clarinet or sax, or percussion if they couldn't make any of them make a sound. They started him on trumpet (he had already fooled with his brothers), much to his disgust, but he plays sax as an adult very naturally, just as he wanted to from the start. Just because Sano started at short because of his athleticism at an early age, doesn't necessarily mean it is his natural position. I don't really know that there is such a thing. Everyone adapts and becomes differently. It is clear that the player no longer gets to really chose himself, though - what with all the know-it-alls that are everywhere.

Hosken Bombo Disco · December 4, 2015

I don't know that just because someone had Sano start at Short, that that becomes his "natural" position. It reminds me of taking my sons to the first band meeting in grade school, and they had the kids try to blow the instruments (not a lot had changed since the 60's)...... and just because someone could get a sound out of a trumpet first, they became a trumpet player, or clarinet or sax, or percussion if they couldn't make any of them make a sound. They started him on trumpet (he had already fooled with his brothers), much to his disgust, but he plays sax as an adult very naturally, just as he wanted to from the start. Just because Sano started at short because of his athleticism at an early age, doesn't necessarily mean it is his natural position. I don't really know that there is such a thing. Everyone adapts and becomes differently. It is clear that the player no longer gets to really chose himself, though - what with all the know-it-alls that are everywhere.

I agree. Most of these guys at this level played at an up the middle position early in life, including Sano. I guess that doesn't necessarily make them up the middle guys for life.

Can we put Sano back at DH?

h2oface · December 5, 2015

I did not post "embrace Terry Ryan". For many, that would be a waste of my time. I was addressing those who keep posting things like "He's gotta trade Plouffe now" or "Ryan is just lying". The man has done exactly what he said he was going to do: Add offense to the team, but not at the cost of subtracting others. Embrace the change and embrace the fact the Ryan did what he said he would.

So sorry to have mis-positioned the embrace. Thanks for setting me straight.

I keep thinking about Ryan saying so often that he wasn't limited as to payroll, like he continues to say this year. A couple of those years he said that, he cut payroll. I don't know where this all falls within the representation of the truth or reality, but I hope he takes that to heart and actually unlimits himself this year. Seems that if that is true, the payroll not limited, it is time to sign an ace before they are all gone again. And that's the truth!

https://youtu.be/GMeLHb_Q08Q

jimmer · December 5, 2015

I keep thinking about Ryan saying so often that he wasn't limited as to payroll, like he continues to say this year. A couple of those years he said that, he cut payroll. I don't know where this all falls within the representation of the truth or reality, but I hope he takes that to heart and actually unlimits himself this year. Seems that if that is true, the payroll not limited, it is time to sign an ace before they are all gone again. And that's the truth!

Or, during the offseason followng the 2012 season, when he says he will do everything possible to greatly improve the rotation for the upcoming season then goes out and signs Pelfrey, Correia, and trades for Worley? Or when he says he only traded Castillo because he'd be a FA at the end of the season and he wanted to get something for him, then days later said he would have traded him even if we had him under control past the end of the season?

Kwak · December 5, 2015

So sorry to have mis-positioned the embrace. Thanks for setting me straight.

I keep thinking about Ryan saying so often that he wasn't limited as to payroll, like he continues to say this year. A couple of those years he said that, he cut payroll. I don't know where this all falls within the representation of the truth or reality, but I hope he takes that to heart and actually unlimits himself this year. Seems that if that is true, the payroll not limited, it is time to sign an ace before they are all gone again. And that's the truth!

https://youtu.be/GMeLHb_Q08Q

All of the "Aces" will be signed by Christmas--don't expect to see one in your stocking though!

kab21 · December 5, 2015

What do you think it 'borders on'?

In regards to athletes overall, not Sano in particular, I find it weird how these guys' job is to play sports yet some of them get so out of shape, some early in their careers. They play all year, then they have 4-5 months off and they are athletes. Get in shape and stay in shape.

One thing I admired about guys like Jeter and Torii is the fact that they kept themselves in shape,

Now, in regards to Sano, I'm not sure he's actually fat. He looks muscular with a little baby fat that hopefully goes awAy, but I doubt his body fat is even in the 20s. Either way though, it's a lot to move in a spacious outfield and he's already having leg issues which won't be helped by playing the OF.

This is so wrong.

Sano isn't 268 lbs because he is out of shape. Sano is a cut 268 lbs and he weighs that much because he has a freakishly big and freakishly athletic body. I think because of this 3B is going to be hard to play at a tolerable level for more than a couple of years though. He probably isn't going to be an average OF'er either but it is a less demanding position and less important one defensively.

jimmer · December 5, 2015

This is so wrong.

Sano isn't 268 lbs because he is out of shape. Sano is a cut 268 lbs and he weighs that much because he has a freakishly big and freakishly athletic body. I think because of this 3B is going to be hard to play at a tolerable level for more than a couple of years though. He probably isn't going to be an average OF'er either but it is a less demanding position and less important one defensively.

What is so wrong? I said I don't think Sano is fat. I said I think he's muscular. So we agree. Still hard to get that much mass going in a spacious OF and he IS already having hammy issues.

Jham · December 5, 2015

Or, during the offseason followng the 2012 season, when he says he will do everything possible to greatly improve the rotation for the upcoming season then goes out and signs Pelfrey, Correia, and trades for Worley? Or when he says he only traded Castillo because he'd be a FA at the end of the season and he wanted to get something for him, then days later said he would have traded him even if we had him under control past the end of the season?

Then retired when he realized he'd screwed up the Hunter situation, alienated the vets on the club, and wan't going to be able to resign Nathan or Johann. And I'm actually sort of a Ryan fan...

kab21 · December 5, 2015

What is so wrong? I said I don't think Sano is fat. I said I think he's muscular. So we agree. Still hard to get that much mass going in a spacious OF and he IS already having hammy issues.

You implied that it was a lack of conditioning issue. There is no amount of conditioning that is going to make Sano smaller.

It is also going to be hard for Sano at 3B. And 3B is a lot more than just taking hard hit grounders right at him. I remember watching Cuddyer (a natural SS by some definitions ) struggle at 3B and get injured.

jimmer · December 5, 2015

You implied that it was a lack of conditioning issue. There is no amount of conditioning that is going to make Sano smaller.

It is also going to be hard for Sano at 3B. And 3B is a lot more than just taking hard hit grounders right at him. I remember watching Cuddyer (a natural SS by some definitions ) struggle at 3B and get injured.

In the post you quoted that you said was so wrong, this is exactly what I said about Sano:

'Now, in regards to Sano, I'm not sure he's actually fat. He looks muscular with a little baby fat that hopefully goes awAy, but I doubt his body fat is even in the 20s. Either way though, it's a lot to move in a spacious outfield and he's already having leg issues which won't be helped by playing the OF.'

Where, in there, did I imply anything about lack of conditioning on his part?

But since you said no amount of conditioning is going to make him smaller, yes, it's possible he can trim down a bit. As was mentioned earlier, injuries contributed to his weight increase. He'll trim down some. Probably sit around 250.

kab21 · December 5, 2015

You brought up lack of conditioning for pro athletes in a thread solely about Sano. You also think that Sano can trim down a bit and be around 250. It is extremely unlikely that Sano ever weighs 250. It isn't a conditioning or being injured problem. It is a 'he's a giant man' problem.

h2oface · December 5, 2015

All of the "Aces" will be signed by Christmas--don't expect to see one in your stocking though!

Damn, and I was thinking with no limits on the payroll (and coming from Terry Ryan, that has to be the truth, right?), it would be Greinke. And the Diamondbacks even have a limit, but say they can still spend more.......

Major League Ready · December 5, 2015

You brought up lack of conditioning for pro athletes in a thread solely about Sano. You also think that Sano can trim down a bit and be around 250. It is extremely unlikely that Sano ever weighs 250. It isn't a conditioning or being injured problem. It is a 'he's a giant man' problem.

He could stay at or even a little below 250 if he was totally committed. Look what Shabaaz Muhammad and Kevin Love did to their physiques. They had considerably less bulk than Sano and they both took off 18-20 lbs. I seriously doubt that at 6' 4" he is in peak condition at 268 and I really don't believe he was 268 last season. I would have to see him weighed to believe it.

Does anyone remember when Delmon Young got sick and lost weight. He was not remotely as athletic as Sano but that weight loss allowed him to move considerably better. He was just too lazy to stay in shape.

HitInAPinch · December 5, 2015

So sorry to have mis-positioned the embrace. Thanks for setting me straight.

I keep thinking about Ryan saying so often that he wasn't limited as to payroll, like he continues to say this year. A couple of those years he said that, he cut payroll. I don't know where this all falls within the representation of the truth or reality, but I hope he takes that to heart and actually unlimits himself this year. Seems that if that is true, the payroll not limited, it is time to sign an ace before they are all gone again. And that's the truth!

https://youtu.be/GMeLHb_Q08Q

I loved Lilly Tomlin's comedy routines back then!

The Pohlad family has said that about the payroll more that a few times in the past. So what is the problem here? Lack of trying or no high priced talent wants to come play with the Twins? I lean towards the latter, but I can buy into the former. If the Twins have a good year this next season, well, I think back to what happened to the Packers when they stunningly signed Reggie White in 1993.

sane09 · December 5, 2015

He could stay at or even a little below 250 if he was totally committed. Look what Shabaaz Muhammad and Kevin Love did to their physiques.They had considerably less bulk than Sano and they both took off 18-20 lbs. I seriously doubt that at 6' 4" he is in peak condition at 268 and I really don't believe he was 268 last season. .

Love and Bazz changed their physiques during the OFFSEASON. Sano injured his knee and played DH-only when he gained his weight. He probably had little capability to get aerobic exercise. Put Sano on a program between now and ST, with conditioning an

sane09 · December 5, 2015

d dieting and that can be maintain during the season and watch the results.

sane09 · December 5, 2015

Damn, and I was thinking with no limits on the payroll (and coming from Terry Ryan, that has to be the truth, right?),...

Ryan is honest, but a loyal employee does not blame his bosses for his issues with payroll and resulting wins and losses.

ashbury · December 5, 2015

It is also going to be hard for Sano at 3B. And 3B is a lot more than just taking hard hit grounders right at him.

Actually I believe that is the dilemma with Sano and third base: he's quite good at some things requiring athleticism. In my SSS of watching him, I've seen very fine work when coming in fast on a slow roller and getting the throw off with some mustard on it despite the awkward throwing position. It's more mundane third base issues like tracking foul popups and dealing with hard smashes toward him that I've seen trouble with - plays we've come (after time) to expect Plouffe to make. And those things seem correctable. The question for the GM and on-field staff is whether they can live with the current below-par performance while he learns. If you believe the talk about the outfield, the answer apparently is no for the time being. But I think it to be a close decision and they are probably on the fence about it - a good trade offer for Plouffe could swing the decision the other way, for instance.

jimmer · December 5, 2015

You brought up lack of conditioning for pro athletes in a thread solely about Sano. You also think that Sano can trim down a bit and be around 250. It is extremely unlikely that Sano ever weighs 250. It isn't a conditioning or being injured problem. It is a 'he's a giant man' problem.

A thread solely about Sano? You should go back and read all the players named in this thread.

The discussion had gotten about conditioning and I mentioned I think it's ridiculous athletes let themselves get way out of shape considering they play so much during the season and they have the so much downtime to stay in shape during the offseason. And before I said that, I said I wasn't talking about Sano specifically.

THEN I wrote a whole paragraph about Sano specifically saying I didn't think he was fat but actually muscular. Maybe you should read a bit more carefully.

Anyway,he was in the 230s before his injury last year according to a previous poster. To suggest he couldn't get back to the 250s if he wanted to is ridiculous. These are professional athletes with scores of people (dieticians, conditioning coaches, etc) around to guide him to that weight if he, or the team, wanted to do that. The question is whether or not he needs to because like I said, he's muscular. If he's going to be in the OF, he probably should because muscular or not, at 6'4" almost 270, range is going to be an issue in spacious Target Field OF. This is before we take into account, he's never played in the OF as a pro ballplayer.

TheLeviathan · December 5, 2015

Comparing Sano's body type to Shabazz and Love is a mistake. Shabazz and Love were fat and lost weight.

Sano weighs 270 pounds because he's musclebound. The weight "issue" here is preposterous.

sane09 · December 5, 2015

Comparing Sano's body type to Shabazz and Love is a mistake. Shabazz and Love were fat and lost weight.

Sano weighs 270 pounds because he's musclebound. The weight "issue" here is preposterous.

Sano weighed 232# last winter. If he has added 38# of muscle in 11 months, he may have discovered the Mark McGuire milk-shake recipe. I prefer to think that it's not ALL muscle.

jimbo92107 · December 5, 2015

I'm told Ryan is one of the most honest men around, and he's said this more than 1 time now.

Posturing or positioning? Just because Terry Ryan is announcing plans to move Miguel Sano to the OF, that doesn't mean he will dismiss all offers for Plouffe. Ryan's job includes finding a plausible configuration for this team whatever the final roster is, and at the moment, that's a plausible team. Sano is an excellent athlete, comparable to a good NFL tight end. He's got a great arm, and we have all noticed that he is, in fact, a pelotero, a ballplayer. The man's got game in his head and in his heart, so he will find a way to be a very good outfielder, quite possibly a larger version of Michael Cuddyer, plus Sano will bang about 40 balls over the fence every year for the next decade.

jimmer · December 5, 2015

. The man's got game in his head and in his heart, so he will find a way to be a very good outfielder, quite possibly a larger version of Michael Cuddyer, plus Sano will bang about 40 balls over the fence every year for the next decade.

Are there people under the impression Cuddyer was a very good outfielder? The man had a strong, accurate arm and played the baggy well, but he was not a good OF, and not close to a very good OF.

Hosken Bombo Disco · December 5, 2015

And 3B is a lot more than just taking hard hit grounders right at him.

Although that's basically all Plouffe does--fields ground balls hit within arm's reach of where he's positioned. Granted, he does that very well.

jokin · December 5, 2015

Maybe it's unwarranted, but the Twins are displaying confidence that:

1. Sano can thrive in the OF
2. Park can handle MLB pitching
3. Murphy can settle in as a MLB average catcher
4. Mauer can do better than we saw in 2014
5. ???

This will be interesting....

It's unwarranted, simply because that is a lot of critical outcomes to have to count on happening with such a high degree of uncertainty built in to expectations. (Plus, for your #5 reason, there are actually more than 3 ?s of uncertainty regarding the amount of 2016 contributions that will be received by each)-

1) The 3 "Bs"- Berrios, Buxton, Bullpen...

Plus- Rosario, Escobar, Arcia, Hughes... and what role they intend for May... each carry a high amount of their own sets of doubts

jimmer · December 5, 2015

Although that's basically all Plouffe does--fields ground balls hit within arm's reach of where he's positioned. Granted, he does that very well.

RZR measures range. For qualifying 3Bs, Plouffe was 2nd in the AL in RZR (1st was fielding freak Machado :-))and 4th in the majors (again behind Machado, along with super defensive stud Arenado, and Prado)

OOZ tells us how many balls outside of zone a player made. For qualifying 3Bs, Plouffe was 4th in the AL in OOZ and 7th in the majors.

He's got plenty of range.

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