Three Teams

[Platoon]

For several seasons the Twins have been linked, correctly or not, with the Cubs and the Astros as the teams with the best minor league prospects, depth and talent. After watching the other two teams the last two nights, and over the course of the season, I wondered if we have fallen back in the pack? Have the injuries to Sano and Buxton been that detrimental? Have we/they over rated our players? Or have the other two teams been more aggressive? Or lucky? And more importantly, if we are behind, will we catch up?

[drjim]

Cubs way ahead, close to Astros.

 

I no longer compare Ryan to Epstein, I think he's on another level of GM. Question in my mind is if Twins/Ryan can hang with other 28.

[HitInAPinch]

I think it's very easy for some of us to overrate players.  I don't get to see all the games, few actually, so I depend on TD folks to give me the scoop.  Thankfully, some have shown me were to get videos of some of the prospects. 

 

I'd be interested to hear what the drafting philosophies are of both Ryan, Epstein and others are.

I don't believe the Twins are falling behind, just drafting because of other needs. 

 

As if another, hulking power hitter isn't a need  

[USAFChief]

Where the Cubs pull ahead is, you never hear any "we're going to do this the right way" crap.

 

Have a chance at the best manager in the game?  Find a way to get it done, even if some feelings get hurt along the way.  

 

Have a chance to add an Addison Russell?  Pull the trigger and make the trade.

 

John Lester is out there?  Pay the money.  

 

Want to take a flyer on a pitcher?  Don't just sift through the trash heap on cheap veterens.  Sift through, but also see a former top pick with good stuff, who's fallen out of favor with his team, and find a way to make THAT trade, too.  

 

The Cubs haven't gotten really good simply through good drafts.

 

They've added to that.  They think big.  They're not afraid to make the big mistake.  They see opportunity, and they go get it.  

 

I have trouble believing TR can do the same.  Someone with courage and vision could have added Cole Hamels this year, for example, pretty cheaply.  Can anyone seriously envision TR doing that?

[howieramone2]

We are actually not competing with the Lovable Losers. They are a large market team which in the not too distant past had a season ticket waiting list of 45,000 and have the third highest priced tickets. I have the utmost respect for King Theo, but then again he started his rebuild way ahead of our favorite team and had a fairly extensive teardown.

[DaveW]

 

We are actually not competing with the Lovable Losers. They are a large market team which in the not too distant past had a season ticket waiting list of 45,000 and have the third highest priced tickets. I have the utmost respect for King Theo, but then again he started his rebuild way ahead of our favorite team and had a fairly extensive teardown.

We are competing with every single other team in baseball, the "large market" excuses need to stop since it really isn't relevant. The Royals managed to get to the world series last year, they aren't large market.

[twinsnorth49]

We are actually not competing with the Lovable Losers. They are a large market team which in the not too distant past had a season ticket waiting list of 45,000 and have the third highest priced tickets. I have the utmost respect for King Theo, but then again he started his rebuild way ahead of our favorite team and had a fairly extensive teardown.

How so? Epstein was hired by the Cubs in 2011, the same year Ryan came back on the scene with the Twins after losing 99 games. They're also only separated by about 10 million in payroll.

[bluechipper]

Where would the Twins be right now if Buxton and Sano hadn't gotten hurt in 2014? They probably would've been on the MLB roster for the entire 2015 season. I (obviously) think that would have made a big difference.

 

I don't think we overrate our own prospects too much, and I am very confident that they will catch up to those two teams as early as next year.

[howieramone2]

 

We are competing with every single other team in baseball, the "large market" excuses need to stop since it really isn't relevant. The Royals managed to get to the world series last year, they aren't large market.

Dave, do you recall how long their rebuild was? Seems to me it was awhile between playoff appearances.

[bluechipper]

 

Where the Cubs pull ahead is, you never hear any "we're going to do this the right way" crap.

 

Have a chance at the best manager in the game?  Find a way to get it done, even if some feelings get hurt along the way.  

 

Have a chance to add an Addison Russell?  Pull the trigger and make the trade.

 

John Lester is out there?  Pay the money.  

 

Want to take a flyer on a pitcher?  Don't just sift through the trash heap on cheap veterens.  Sift through, but also see a former top pick with good stuff, who's fallen out of favor with his team, and find a way to make THAT trade, too.  

 

The Cubs haven't gotten really good simply through good drafts.

 

They've added to that.  They think big.  They're not afraid to make the big mistake.  They see opportunity, and they go get it.  

 

I have trouble believing TR can do the same.  Someone with courage and vision could have added Cole Hamels this year, for example, pretty cheaply.  Can anyone seriously envision TR doing that?

I don't think Ryan had the advantage of having a guy like Jeff Samardjiza already on the team. And if he did have someone equal to his talent, I'm pretty sure he would jump on the chance to trade him for Addison Russell.

 

And besides getting lucky on Jake Arrieta, I think the main reason why the Cubs are still playing right now is due to their high draft picks. It's just that their picks have been college guys and the Twins have picked high school guys. Let's see where they stack up after Buxton and Berrios get settled in.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Where the Cubs pull ahead is, you never hear any "we're going to do this the right way" crap.

 

Have a chance at the best manager in the game?  Find a way to get it done, even if some feelings get hurt along the way.  

 

Have a chance to add an Addison Russell?  Pull the trigger and make the trade.

 

John Lester is out there?  Pay the money.  

 

Want to take a flyer on a pitcher?  Don't just sift through the trash heap on cheap veterens.  Sift through, but also see a former top pick with good stuff, who's fallen out of favor with his team, and find a way to make THAT trade, too.  

 

The Cubs haven't gotten really good simply through good drafts.

 

They've added to that.  They think big.  They're not afraid to make the big mistake.  They see opportunity, and they go get it.  

 

I have trouble believing TR can do the same.  Someone with courage and vision could have added Cole Hamels this year, for example, pretty cheaply.  Can anyone seriously envision TR doing that?

 

Woah woah woah there. You’ve gone way too far.

 

You can’t compare the Twins and the Cubs, they are two incredibly different organizations. The Cubs have taken a very unique strategy to rebuilding which, quite frankly, is not an option for teams like the Twins. The Cubs have massive amounts of resources as they are in a major city and have a national fan base. As a result, they made a decision (correctly) that drafting pitching is a crapshoot while hitting is much easier to project. So they’ve spent the last 5 years drafting nothing but hitting prospects with their top picks.

 

The reason the Cubs can do this is because they have the resources to buy pitching – the Twins can’t really afford the risk of a Lester but the Cubs can. If you look at the Cubs rotation, they have Arrieta (who they got via trade in one of those lucky trades teams hope to get), Lester (massive free agent signing), Hammels (mid-range free agent signing), Kyle Hendricks (gotten in a trade for Ryan Dempster – a free agent signing himself) and Travis Wood (trade for Sean Marshall). None of these guys were drafted by the Cubs (who will undoubtedly be in on the elite free agent pitching this offseason as well). The Cubs traded away pitching (Dempster, Smardjzia and Marshall) knowing that they have the resources and market and brand to compete for elite free agent pitchers. This allows them to use all of their high end draft picks on hitters. Epstein did the same thing in Boston too. It’s smart but it only works for the four or five clubs that have the resources to buy elite pitching.

 

The Twins don’t have that luxury. They don’t have the money flexibility to make long term commitments to the elite free agent pitchers and even if they did, there’s never been any indication that free agents will choose MN over other places - we’d have to overpay. So the Twins have to pump draft resources into developing young pitching. This is more of a crapshoot and takes longer than developing position players. We also made similar trades for pitching depth (and I would argue that Meyer + May is better than Wood + Hendricks).

 

The difference between the Twins this year and the Cubs this year is that due to injury the Cubs position players are a bit more advanced (by next year that should even itself out), the Cubs gamble (Arrieta had a similar profile to Hughes) turned into a Cy Young candidate this year and the Cubs were able to buy Lester (the rotation drops off considerably after Lester, he may not be their best pitcher but they wouldn’t be where they are without him).

 

As to other points:

 

(A) Joe Maddon was never going to go to the Twins. He wanted to go to a big market and that Cubs job is the most interesting on the market. The Twins made a detailed manager search and seem to have done well. They reached out to Maddon and he wasn’t interested. Can’t blame TR for that.
( Russell: The Twins didn’t have a Jeff Smardzjia to trade and if they had, likely would have had to hold onto him because he would be expensive to replace in free agency. You can’t blame the TR for not making a trade they didn’t have the assets to do.
© Lester: the Twins should never sign that contract. The Cubs can afford to have Lester as a $20 million 5th starter in three years, the Twins can’t.
(D) As stated above, the Twins took a shot at Phil Hughes around when the Cubs took a shot at Arrieta. Sometimes a team gets lucky when a guy does more than they expected. There are 29 teams wishing they could get a time capsule and trade for Arrieta. Can’t blame the Twins for not having a sixth sense. If Hughes has a bounce back year next year, we may not be that far short on these two “buy low” moments.
(E) If the Twins had traded what it took to get Hamels, I doubt you’d be excited. A rough translation of what Texas traded might be Kyle Gibson, Kepler, Gonsalves, Rosario, two lower prospects and $10 million. That’s way too much for the Twins to give up for Hamels. Hamels is on the wrong side of 30 – this time next year the Rangers may be regretting what they gave up.

 

Terry Ryan may or may not be amazing but Epstein has never run a team like the Twins. The Cubs can do things the Twins can’t do; they can try to take shortcuts because they can afford to pay for the mistakes. TR has to develop No 1 and No 2 starters from within (though Santana and Hughes have looked like solid 2 starters the past few years – both seem like good TR signings) and has to trust that the kids will develop.

 

It’s easy to be negative and use hindsight to criticize. This Twins team is set up very nicely for the next 5 years with a lot of high upside pitching talent (Gonsalves, Berrios, Thorpe, Stewart) on its way to complement a batting lineup that only really misses a catcher. They have the resources coming up through the minors to augment any shortcomings at the top and inject new blood into the team for the next half decade. So stop nitpicking TR and enjoy what he (and Bill Smith) have created – a team that looks to be really fun to watch for years to come.

[DaveW]

 

Dave, do you recall how long their rebuild was? Seems to me it was awhile between playoff appearances.

What have you done for me lately? The Royals have been to more World Series then the Twins have the last 25 years, they have won more divisions then the Twins have the last 5 years.

 

[Platoon]

I don't think Ryan had the advantage of having a guy like Jeff Samardjiza already on the team. And if he did have someone equal to his talent, I'm pretty sure he would jump on the chance to trade him for Addison Russell.

 

And besides getting lucky on Jake Arrieta, I think the main reason why the Cubs are still playing right now is due to their high draft picks. It's just that their picks have been college guys and the Twins have picked high school guys. Let's see where they stack up after Buxton and Berrios get settled in.

Ryan has been the Twins GM for what? 17 of the last 20 years. It is him who does not have Jeff S and the college kids, and the high velocity relievers. I am not saying all Ryan's decisions have been bad, but they have been Ryan's decisions. Btw, this thread has resulted in one good thing, if none other! The Chief and Dave being in agreement! :).

[DaveW]

 

 

Woah woah woah there Negative Nancy. You’ve gone way too far.

 

You can’t compare the Twins and the Cubs, they are two incredibly different organizations. The Cubs have taken a very unique strategy to rebuilding which, quite frankly, is not an option for teams like the Twins. The Cubs have massive amounts of resources as they are in a major city and have a national fan base. As a result, they made a decision (correctly) that drafting pitching is a crapshoot while hitting is much easier to project. So they’ve spent the last 5 years drafting nothing but hitting prospects with their top picks.

 

The reason the Cubs can do this is because they have the resources to buy pitching – the Twins can’t really afford the risk of a Lester but the Cubs can. If you look at the Cubs rotation, they have Arrieta (who they got via trade in one of those lucky trades teams hope to get), Lester (massive free agent signing), Hammels (mid-range free agent signing), Kyle Hendricks (gotten in a trade for Ryan Dempster – a free agent signing himself) and Travis Wood (trade for Sean Marshall). None of these guys were drafted by the Cubs (who will undoubtedly be in on the elite free agent pitching this offseason as well). The Cubs traded away pitching (Dempster, Smardjzia and Marshall) knowing that they have the resources and market and brand to compete for elite free agent pitchers. This allows them to use all of their high end draft picks on hitters. Epstein did the same thing in Boston too. It’s smart but it only works for the four or five clubs that have the resources to buy elite pitching.

 

The Twins don’t have that luxury. They don’t have the money flexibility to make long term commitments to the elite free agent pitchers and even if they did, there’s never been any indication that free agents will choose MN over other places - we’d have to overpay. So the Twins have to pump draft resources into developing young pitching. This is more of a crapshoot and takes longer than developing position players. We also made similar trades for pitching depth (and I would argue that Meyer + May is better than Wood + Hendricks).

 

The difference between the Twins this year and the Cubs this year is that due to injury the Cubs position players are a bit more advanced (by next year that should even itself out), the Cubs gamble (Arrieta had a similar profile to Hughes) turned into a Cy Young candidate this year and the Cubs were able to buy Lester (the rotation drops off considerably after Lester, he may not be their best pitcher but they wouldn’t be where they are without him).

 

As to other points:

 

(A) Joe Maddon was never going to go to the Twins. He wanted to go to a big market and that Cubs job is the most interesting on the market. The Twins made a detailed manager search and seem to have done well. They reached out to Maddon and he wasn’t interested. Can’t blame TR for that.
( Russell: The Twins didn’t have a Jeff Smardzjia to trade and if they had, likely would have had to hold onto him because he would be expensive to replace in free agency. You can’t blame the TR for not making a trade they didn’t have the assets to do.
© Lester: the Twins should never sign that contract. The Cubs can afford to have Lester as a $20 million 5th starter in three years, the Twins can’t.
(D) As stated above, the Twins took a shot at Phil Hughes around when the Cubs took a shot at Arrieta. Sometimes a team gets lucky when a guy does more than they expected. There are 29 teams wishing they could get a time capsule and trade for Arrieta. Can’t blame the Twins for not having a sixth sense. If Hughes has a bounce back year next year, we may not be that far short on these two “buy low” moments.
(E) If the Twins had traded what it took to get Hamels, I doubt you’d be excited. A rough translation of what Texas traded might be Kyle Gibson, Kepler, Gonsalves, Rosario, two lower prospects and $10 million. That’s way too much for the Twins to give up for Hamels. Hamels is on the wrong side of 30 – this time next year the Rangers may be regretting what they gave up.

 

Terry Ryan may or may not be amazing but Epstein has never run a team like the Twins. The Cubs can do things the Twins can’t do; they can try to take shortcuts because they can afford to pay for the mistakes. TR has to develop No 1 and No 2 starters from within (though Santana and Hughes have looked like solid 2 starters the past few years – both seem like good TR signings) and has to trust that the kids will develop.

 

It’s easy to be negative and use hindsight to criticize. This Twins team is set up very nicely for the next 5 years with a lot of high upside pitching talent (Gonsalves, Berrios, Thorpe, Stewart) on its way to complement a batting lineup that only really misses a catcher. They have the resources coming up through the minors to augment any shortcomings at the top and inject new blood into the team for the next half decade. So stop nitpicking TR and enjoy what he (and Bill Smith) have created – a team that looks to be really fun to watch for years to come.

The Cubs payroll is ten million more than the Twins (aka what we paid a 40 year old RF to produce a 88 OPS+ for us this season), the Twins absolutely could have mirrored the Cubs strategy.

 

And the Twins have spent on pitching FYI, they have committed over 100 million to Hughes, Santana and Nolasco.

 

[DaveW]

 

 

Ryan has been the Twins GM for what? 17 of the last 20 years. It is him who does not have Jeff S and the college kids, and the high velocity relievers. I am not saying all Ryan's decisions have been bad, but they have been Ryan's decisions. Btw, this thread has resulted in one good thing, if none other! The Chief and Dave being in agreement! :).

Chief and I agree on a lot of things.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Epstein is in elite territory as a GM and/or President.

 

It also helps the Cubs are the Cubs. Attracting talent like Epstein and Maddon is a lot easier when they have the chance to become legendary in the city of Chicago by bringing the team a championship.

 

While people applaud Epstein for getting Maddon - and they should - does anyone really think the Twins had a shot at him?

 

If you're Joe Maddon or Theo Epstein, give me one good reason why you choose Minnesota over the north siders. They have so many things the Twins can't offer: legacy, money, the chance to become idols in the country's third-largest city, leading one of the most storied franchises in baseball (possibly second behind the Yankees) to a championship.

 

I applaud Chicago ownership for how they've run the franchise over the past half decade but I also acknowledge they have a running start over more commonplace teams to acquire that kind of talent.

[ThejacKmp]

 

We are competing with every single other team in baseball, the "large market" excuses need to stop since it really isn't relevant. The Royals managed to get to the world series last year, they aren't large market.

 

It took them 12 years. The Twins rebuild took 4 years. Does that mean that TR/Bill Smith get 3 times the credit Dayton Moore got?

 

And two to three years from now the Royals will be in trouble when they can't afford to resign all of Cain/Gordon/Moustakas/Holland/etc. The game is set up so that unless you have a ton of money, you can't stay on top forever. The Twins had a solid 8 years of competing in the 2000s and then had a relatively short 4 year bottom out before what looks like another solid decade of competing.

In 2020, Royals fans will likely say that they would trade the last two decades with Twins fans.

[ThejacKmp]

 

How so? Epstein was hired by the Cubs in 2011, the same year Ryan came back on the scene with the Twins after losing 99 games. They're also only separated by about 10 million in payroll.

 

$10 million now but that number will balloon as the Cubs sign another elite free agent pitcher this offseason (Lester was always part 1 of 2, the Cubs didn't expect to be this good this year) and will keep all of their young guys. The Twins will be much choosier about who to keep because they will have to be.

[DaveW]

 

It took them 12 years. The Twins rebuild took 4 years. Does that mean that TR/Bill Smith get 3 times the credit Dayton Moore got?

 

And two to three years from now the Royals will be in trouble when they can't afford to resign all of Cain/Gordon/Moustakas/Holland/etc. The game is set up so that unless you have a ton of money, you can't stay on top forever. The Twins had a solid 8 years of competing in the 2000s and then had a relatively short 4 year bottom out before what looks like another solid decade of competing.

In 2020, Royals fans will likely say that they would trade the last two decades with Twins fans.

The Twins rebuild is complete? I didn't know that finishing a couple games over .500 and missing the playoffs was "complete"

 

It hasn't been 4 years, it has been 5 years now.

[DaveW]

 

 

$10 million now but that number will balloon as the Cubs sign another elite free agent pitcher this offseason

Source?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The Twins rebuild is complete? I didn't know that finishing a couple games over .500 and missing the playoffs was "complete"

 

It hasn't been 4 years, it has been 5 years now.

This was Ryan's fourth year back at the helm.

 

If you compare Ryan's rebuild to Epstein, the results aren't awesome. If you compare Ryan's rebuild to almost any other team in baseball, it's right on track with other teams.

 

I'm not giving Ryan a pass here - I think Epstein is working on another level and would love to have him - but isolating the Cubs as the benchmark ignores the fact most teams don't successfully rebuild in a three year span of time.

[DaveW]

 

Epstein is in elite territory as a GM and/or President.

 

It also helps the Cubs are the Cubs. Attracting talent like Epstein and Maddon is a lot easier when they have the chance to become legendary in the city of Chicago by bringing the team a championship.

 

While people applaud Epstein for getting Maddon - and they should - does anyone really think the Twins had a shot at him?

 

If you're Joe Maddon or Theo Epstein, give me one good reason why you choose Minnesota over the north siders. They have so many things the Twins can't offer: legacy, money, the chance to become idols in the country's third-largest city, leading one of the most storied franchises in baseball (possibly second behind the Yankees) to a championship.

 

I applaud Chicago ownership for how they've run the franchise over the past half decade but I also acknowledge they have a running start over more commonplace teams to acquire that kind of talent.

It's not about luring Theo or Maddon here, its about Ryan and the Twins org and the refusal to budge on their 20 year old ideas on how to run a club. There was nothing stopping the Twins and Ryan from taking an approach closer to Theo then "biz as usual/Twins way etc"

 

For all this talk about how much the Twins are improved etc, at the end of the day they had the 7th best record of 15 in the AL and ranked in the bottom third in most hitting and pitching categories. To the OP original question: The Twins are significantly behind the Astros at this stage and aren't even in the same category as the Cubs.

 

The only thing people are bringing to the table who don't agree with this are just excuses (Market size, injuries, the Cubs got lucky on a trade etc)

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

It's not about luring Theo or Maddon here, its about Ryan and the Twins org and the refusal to budge on their 20 year old ideas on how to run a club. There was nothing stopping the Twins and Ryan from taking an approach closer to Theo then "biz as usual/Twins way etc"

 

For all this talk about how much the Twins are improved etc, at the end of the day they had the 7th best record of 15 in the AL and ranked in the bottom third in most hitting and pitching categories. To the OP original question: The Twins are significantly behind the Astros at this stage and aren't even in the same category as the Cubs.

The Astros started the rebuild one year before the Twins. The two teams are basically in lock-step once you adjust the timelines.

 

I won't argue the Twins front office should have been smarter about aspects of the rebuild. If they wanted starting pitching, it makes more sense to acquire one higher tier pitcher and one lower tier guy than it does to acquire a slew of #3 upside guys.

[ThejacKmp]

 

What have you done for me lately? The Royals have been to more World Series then the Twins have the last 25 years, they have won more divisions then the Twins have the last 5 years.

 

 

In the period between Royals playoff appearances, children were born who could legally drink through 7 more years of losing baseball before reaching the playoff promised land. During that period of time the Twins WON two World Series and won their division six times. 

 

Point Twins.

[DaveW]

 

This was Ryan's fourth year back at the helm.

 

If you compare Ryan's rebuild to Epstein, the results aren't awesome. If you compare Ryan's rebuild to almost any other team in baseball, it's right on track with other teams.

 

I'm not giving Ryan a pass here - I think Epstein is working on another level and would love to have him - but isolating the Cubs as the benchmark ignores the fact most teams don't successfully rebuild in a three year span of time.

This was Ryans 17th year at the helm, and as mentioned in a previous thread his overall track record is poor. 1 playoff series win. For all the talk of the Royals and their long rebuild, they have more playoff series wins then we do in the last 10,15,20,25 years.

 

 

[bluechipper]

 

Ryan has been the Twins GM for what? 17 of the last 20 years. It is him who does not have Jeff S and the college kids, and the high velocity relievers. I am not saying all Ryan's decisions have been bad, but they have been Ryan's decisions. Btw, this thread has resulted in one good thing, if none other! The Chief and Dave being in agreement! :).

Well there were a few playoff seasons in those years. It can be difficult to not go through a rebuilding stage when you have only average payroll and low draft picks (unless you're the Cardinals.)

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

This was Ryans 17th year at the helm, and as mentioned in a previous thread his overall track record is poor. 1 playoff series win. For all the talk of the Royals and their long rebuild, they have more playoff series wins then we do in the last 10,15,20,25 years.

You're shifting the argument, Dave. I see little relevance in Ryan's tenure in the 90s. If you want to go down that route, let's about about Moore's first decade with the Royals... A time when he was basically the laughing stock of baseball because he blundered almost every move he made.

 

If we're talking about the rebuild - and that's what the thread is about - this was Ryan's fourth season and and the Twins were over .500. That's on par with the Astros and faster than the Royals, Pirates, and several other recent postseason teams. He's doing an acceptable - though in my opinion, unspectacular job - with the rebuilding process.

 

edit: my bad, I thought the Astros were close to .500 last season. They were an abysmal 70-92. So, in essence, Ryan is ahead of everyone but the Cubs.

[ThejacKmp]

 

The Cubs payroll is ten million more than the Twins (aka what we paid a 40 year old RF to produce a 88 OPS+ for us this season), the Twins absolutely could have mirrored the Cubs strategy.

 

And the Twins have spent on pitching FYI, they have committed over 100 million to Hughes, Santana and Nolasco.

 

See below. That $10 million gap this year will be nowhere near as close as the Cubs spending on pitching continues this offseason.

There's a difference between three short term mid-range deals and the massive contracts the Cubs can offer (which buy elite pitching for the first half and are awful the back half). The Twins don't have the luxury to do that. And of those three, the Twins seem to have gone 2 for 3 (with the caveat that you obviously don't know until the contract expires, Hughes could implode, Santana too). That's pretty good GMing by TR there.

The Twins could mirror the Cubs strategy but it would be disastrously short sighted. If Lester had sucked for the Cubs, they would have been able to go and sign another elite guy this offseason and slot Lester into the 5 spot. The Twins would be paralyzed as a club. TR is smart not to roll the dice on huge contracts to guys in their 30s - no amount of Sano/Buxton/Rosario magic would be able to make up for that albatross - especially if the Twins traded assets to get a guy like Cole Hamels as the poster advocated.

[ThejacKmp]

 

This was Ryans 17th year at the helm, and as mentioned in a previous thread his overall track record is poor. 1 playoff series win. For all the talk of the Royals and their long rebuild, they have more playoff series wins then we do in the last 10,15,20,25 years.

 

Billy Beane's teams suck in the playoffs and we don't say he's a bad GM. The playoffs aren't exactly a crapshoot but you can't judge a GM by them - getting there is the battle. The Twins consistently got there last decade and it looks like they'll be in the running for a long while here after a relatively short rebuild. That's good work by TR (and Bill Smith).

[Shane Wahl]

The Twins are just one year away from being the Cubs with the right moves and they probably don't have to include a Lester-type signing at all.