Twins drafting/signing (int't FA) young elite pitching

[Pius Jefferson]

One of those often discussed topics but all the good young pitching coming into the league got me wondering why it's been 34 years and Frank Viola since the Twins drafted a great starting pitcher. Like the old saying goes 'even a blind squirrel is right twice' yet the Twins haven't been right even once.

 

The Twins haven't even had the 'what if' guy who looked great but blew out his arm and never recovered. That was Liriano and he was signed by the Giants originally. The hope is Berrios but he's not without concerns.

[goulik]

I have pondered this topic many times and wondered if it was an inability to draft/scout or an inabiity to develop those you drafted/traded for or both.

I am convinced that we are a club that does not develop pitchers well. Not only have we failed to bring them up all the way through the system since Viola, but there seems to be the problem that many pitchers we trade for fail to develop. Meyer most recently has struggled to be who we thought we were getting, but there are too many pitchers like Liriano who showed flashes but never fully blossomed for us.

Neil Allen seems to be changing the MLB side of this equation, but this needs to be addressed top down. We need some advanced analytics on what levels are they seeming to develop and where are they failing to develop and consider replacing coaches where there are patterns of not deveoping.

Then back to your topic starter, do the same for the scouts. Are the pitchers the scouts are grading consistently and initially showing for their first MiLB club the skills advertised by the scouts? if not STOP LISTENING TO THOSE SCOUTS ON PITCHERS!

[Badsmerf]

That is a difficult question to answer. I believe it comes down to the evaluators unable to identify elite talent. There was also the ole' pitch to contact days for the Twins. I'm really not a big fan of the Twins drafts in that entire decade (I was too young to really follow it closely in the 90's). 

[tobi0040]

I think you have several reasons. But most of them are around us historically pinching pennies and being risk averse.

 

We have typically favored college pitchers vs. high school pitchers.  Many of those college guys fit the type of pitcher the Twins have favored over the years, higher chance of making the majors but a lower ceiling.

 

You also had a fairly long period where the really great pitchers would sign with Boras and name their price prior to the draft.  To my knowledge the Twins never went over slot.  Guys like Beckett, Verlander, etc. were over slot.

 

The good news is the slotting values have helped change that to some extent.  Kohl Stewart was viewed as a high school fire baller with great stuff.

[nokomismod]

It has been a glaring weakness for sure. Garza was a guy that we all thought would be successfully and he has been good. I suppose Bad Brad Radke would qualify as a very good starter for a number of years. But yeah it has been a long dry spell.

[puckstopper1]

Another contributing factor could be that "pitch to contact" philosophy that the Twins held onto for so long.  The system is still trying to "heal" from that.  Although he was not successful as a starter, I do tip my cap to the Twins for their drafting of Glen Perkins...

[Pius Jefferson]

I don't know if I'd call it poor luck or bad drafting but when the Twins have drafted someone like Shooter Hunt who was projected to be a strikeout pitcher they've flamed out. The philosophy seems to be changing but there's been more relief pitchers than starters drafted. Which would fine if some of the pitchers were already or close to helping the big league club. 

[nicksaviking]

Yes, I've voiced this frustration. They should be able to luck their way into drafting an ace once in awhile. It's worse than just 34 years though, this club has only drafted and developed two aces in its history, and funny thing was, No one knew Blyleven was an ace until after he retired. Dave Boswell might have been Buber three had he not gotten hurt.

[Pius Jefferson]

Very depressing when you look to check baseball reference and are reminded that said player (Dave Boswell) died three years ago.

 

Hard to tell with Boswell going forward. One thing for sure there's no way he should have been pitching in 1970 and most of 1971. It's a reminder of the fallacy of 'back in my day.' spiel about pitching through pain. 

 

 

[darin617]

People need to quit saying we need a new GM even though it may not be a bad idea. What they really need are scouts that can actually evaluate talent. You can expend it to hitters as well. What has this organization produced for hitters in the last 5-10 years? Dozier? Who else, I don't want to include the young guys up this year because you cannot judge a player after just one year.

[jimmer]

 

People need to quit saying we need a new GM even though it may not be a bad idea. What they really need are scouts that can actually evaluate talent. You can expend it to hitters as well. What has this organization produced for hitters in the last 5-10 years? Dozier? Who else, I don't want to include the young guys up this year because you cannot judge a player after just one year.

who hires, fires and evaluates the scouts for the team?  If they are bad at it, they need to be gone.

[70charger]

I think you're mixing your metaphors. A broken clock is right twice a day. A blind squirrel eventually finds a nut.

[BeenHazy]

It's rather amazing just how unproductive the Twins' international scouting and development of pitchers has been.  

 

Unless I'm missing somebody (and I might be), Carlos Pulido's 14 starts in 1994, Juan Rincon's three starts in 2002, and Pulido's one-start encore in 2003 make up the entire body of work of Twins-signed-and-developed Latin American SP's.  That's quite an irony for a team that was anchored by Camilo Pascual and Pedro Ramos when it arrived from D.C.  

 

Pulido and Rincon were Venezuelans.  Could the Twins be the only franchise to never have a game started by a Dominican pitcher who came up through its ranks?

 

 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Hu was an international signing of ours, so it's a timely thought.

 

Even a broken clock strikes a nut sometimes.

 

But it does make you wonder, a team like San Francisco now going to the World Series regularly and pretty much always led by a whole staff of pitchers they drafted and developed by themselves.

[drjim]

Hu was an international signing of ours, so it's a timely thought.

 

Even a broken clock strikes a nut sometimes.

 

But it does make you wonder, a team like San Francisco now going to the World Series regularly and pretty much always led by a whole staff of pitchers they drafted and developed by themselves.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by whole staff.

 

1 of the top 7 relievers was home grown. And he was close to a non-factor by the postseason.

 

3 of the top 6 starters were home grown, but by the playoffs one was injured and the other was demoted.

 

Of course the other was Bumgarner.

[SheboyganBrats]

One thing to keep in mind, Deron Johnson, our head of scouting, was just hired a few years back.  Since then, there's been a demonstrable change in approach when drafting pitching.  In addition, there have been some changes in pitching coaches in the minor leagues.  I'm not trying to give the Twins a pass on their poor record, just saying that the current scouts/coaches probably need a little time to see if their results will be any better.