What would Torii Hunter need for his career numbers to make the Hall of Fame?

[Brandon]

Looking at Torii Hunters overall numbers he appears to be getting close to the career numbers a lot of Hall of famers have put up in their careers.  There is also some distance from where he is now and some of those numbers meaning I think he will hit some but not all of them.  So can Torii Hunter put up enough numbers to make the Hall of Fame?

 

How many hits would he need?  3000 is the automatic number and he won't reach that but 2600 to 2800 is a possibility.  he is at 2391 right now and could finish the season around 2500. 

 

most power hitters have at least 1000 career extra base hits.  Torii is at 866 and could be approaching 900 by the end of the season.  (I do believe if he hits this number the other metrics will take care of themselves but I have a hard time seeing him much over 950 if he plays all of next year)

 

There are very few non Hall of Famers with more than 1525 RBIs.  I think Hunter would have to hit this number regardless to get in.  He is at 1349 and is on pace to be over 1390 at the end of the season.  another 80-90 RBI season next year would have him around 50 RBI shy so he would need to be able to play 2 seasons beyond this one, with one of them full time and the other at least half time.

 

He has 194 stolen bases and 200 is a nice round number.  While I don't think the stolen bases matter that much, 200 is a nice round number that helps make the case of a complete 5 tool player.

 

He has 9 gold gloves so this helps make up some ground for non elite but very good offensive numbers.  So would the Twins making the World Series this year and him playing well in the playoffs but we cant account for that yet.  He also has made a lot of friends amongst the voters by always being available for interviews. 

 

I think it is becoming obvious that Torii will play next year.  the question is will he hit enough next year to be able to play one more season beyond that to get the counting stats needed to justify an induction.  I think his individual numbers are not compelling enough as he is a career 10-15% above average and none of the numbers Hits, Runs, HR, RBI, stand out, but as a total package including his defense from earlier in his career and intangibles like dealing with the media make his case a fun one to watch as I can see him being on the ballot for close to 10 years before being voted in. 

 

I can see Torii finishing somewhere in the neighborhood of these numbers if he plays through the end of next season full time.

 

Hits 2630 - 2650

2Bs 530 - 535

HR  370 -375

XBH 940 -950

RBI 1475 -1490

Runs Scored 1350 - 1360

SB 200

 

9 gold gloves

5 or 6 time all star

2 silver slugger awards

5 time MVP candidate including a 6th place vote (plus if he gets consideration this year)

 

Does this get him in and if not what if anything would?

[Hrbowski]

It should get him in. He has set the standard for center fielders in the last 15 years.

[Rosterman]

He is one of those borderline cases that might make it after-the-fact. But even though his overall numbers are solid, his major shining light was his gold glove work in centerfield. But not enough to push him past bigger and more popular names. Twins Hall of Fame, yes. I do see him playing at least one more year, although sometimes as you keep stretching your career out, it can hurt, too.

[GM64]

I strongly doubt it.  His peak simply wasn't high enough.  Compare Bernie Williams.   Hunter has had a very good career, but not a Hall of Fame career, I don't think --- not even with his long, productive finish. 

 

[Pius Jefferson]

The Keltner List for Hunter

 

Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball? No. Good but never the best.
Was he the best player on his team? I'd say he was the best player on the 2002 Twins.
Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position? Up for debate in a couple of seasons. Overall I'd say no
Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races? Yes and for numerous teams
Was he a good enough player that he could continue to play regularly after passing his prime? Yes
Is he the very best player in baseball history who is not in the Hall of Fame? No
Are most players who have comparable career statistics in the Hall of Fame? No
Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards? Going by Gray Ink and HOF monitor No
Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics? Had a few seasons with not great offensive numbers but very good defensive numbers at a premium defensive position.
Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame but not in? Player is still active
How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close? Best MVP finish was 6th and he wasn't close to winning.
How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the other players who played in this many go to the Hall of Fame? He's played in five all-star games. 
If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant? Best player on 2002 Twins but how close were they to winning the pennant?
What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way? His All-Star game catch against Barry Bonds led to the tie and the decision that the league who wins the all-star game gets home field in the World Series.
Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider? Could be hot headed at times but overall yes. One of the more respected players in the league.

[Brandon]

Pius Jefferson my thinking as while his offense is shy of Hall of Fame and his defense won him 9 gold gloves which only a few have won that many or more and even fewer have better career totals. so as an all round player he could be good enough as a bat alone no.

 

but if he gets enough counting stats that can compare to some of the borderline cases does he have enough other stuff to get him in? other stuff being the gold gloves, awards, mvp votes, all star games.

 

and what do you think he would need from here to make it in?

 

I think if he gets to 1000 extra base hits and 1525+ RBIS he should be in. but that would put him in comparison with Fred McGriffs total. McGriff didn't get voted in but he did lead the league in HRs a few times and did get 1500 RBIs but did not have 9 gold gloves or the same relationship with the media (voters) Hunter does. And there are many who feel McGriff should be in.

 

I think it will be fun to watch and your points are real good too.

[Kwak]

No.  he played for "fly-over" most of his career, in the shadow of others on every team, and never won a WS. Add to that his "body politic".  Oh, and his "hitting statistics" aren't whelming--much less overwhelming.  

[gunnarthor]

I think he's very clearly not a HOFer but also a very, very good player.  Posnanski once talked about "professional hitters" like Harold Baines who were always pretty damn good, very consistent but never really elite.  I think Hunter falls in that category. 

[USAFChief]

The Keltner List for Hunter

 

Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball? No. Good but never the best.

Was he the best player on his team? I'd say he was the best player on the 2002 Twins.

Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position? Up for debate in a couple of seasons. Overall I'd say no

Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races? Yes and for numerous teams

Was he a good enough player that he could continue to play regularly after passing his prime? Yes

Is he the very best player in baseball history who is not in the Hall of Fame? No

Are most players who have comparable career statistics in the Hall of Fame? No

Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards? Going by Gray Ink and HOF monitor No

Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics? Had a few seasons with not great offensive numbers but very good defensive numbers at a premium defensive position.

Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame but not in? Player is still active

How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close? Best MVP finish was 6th and he wasn't close to winning.

How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the other players who played in this many go to the Hall of Fame? He's played in five all-star games. 

If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant? Best player on 2002 Twins but how close were they to winning the pennant?

What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way? His All-Star game catch against Barry Bonds led to the tie and the decision that the league who wins the all-star game gets home field in the World Series.

Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider? Could be hot headed at times but overall yes. One of the more respected players in the league.

I think you nailed each of these answers.

 

And it adds up to "no."

 

Hall of Very Good, though.

[Pius Jefferson]

 

Pius Jefferson my thinking as while his offense is shy of Hall of Fame and his defense won him 9 gold gloves which only a few have won that many or more and even fewer have better career totals. so as an all round player he could be good enough as a bat alone no.

but if he gets enough counting stats that can compare to some of the borderline cases does he have enough other stuff to get him in? other stuff being the gold gloves, awards, mvp votes, all star games.

and what do you think he would need from here to make it in?

I think if he gets to 1000 extra base hits and 1525+ RBIS he should be in. but that would put him in comparison with Fred McGriffs total. McGriff didn't get voted in but he did lead the league in HRs a few times and did get 1500 RBIs but did not have 9 gold gloves or the same relationship with the media (voters) Hunter does. And there are many who feel McGriff should be in.

I think it will be fun to watch and your points are real good too.

 

 

For me to consider Hunter his peak would have to better much better than it was and it would help if his on-base and slugging were both better. 

[jimmer]

The one thing Hunter has going for him is that the media LOVES him.  He's not a HOFer, and he shouldn't and likely won't make it in, but it could happen.

[Thrylos]

Hunter actually has a pretty good contemporary comparable in the NL.  This guy.   Who is not a Hall of Famer,  and he has identical OPS+ with Hunter, 100 more (or so) HRs and 10 more (or so) WAR. 

 

There is no way that Hunter gets in

[Andrew]

Hunter actually has a pretty good contemporary comparable in the NL. This guy. Who is not a Hall of Famer, and he has identical OPS+ with Hunter, 100 more (or so) HRs and 10 more (or so) WAR.

 

There is no way that Hunter gets in

but... Andruw Jones isn't eligible for the HoF due to the fact he hasn't officially retired

[BeenHazy]

Hunter had the career of a HOFer in his 30s, it just took him too long to reach his full potential at the plate.  It's like he and Jones switched bodies in 2007.  Jones' 20's plus Hunter's 30's = HOFer.

[biggentleben]

 

The one thing Hunter has going for him is that the media LOVES him.  He's not a HOFer, and he shouldn't and likely won't make it in, but it could happen.

 

This position to me is interesting.  He must have a sterling reputation in Minnesota because he doesn't have that reputation with other team's media throughout his career. He's known as being fairly standoffish to the opposition's beat guy over his career. Hunter has also stuck his foot in his mouth with some of his comments over his career off the field and refused to address many of these outside of a special few reporters, which doesn't endear him on a national basis.

[biggentleben]

 

Pius Jefferson my thinking as while his offense is shy of Hall of Fame and his defense won him 9 gold gloves which only a few have won that many or more and even fewer have better career totals. so as an all round player he could be good enough as a bat alone no.

but if he gets enough counting stats that can compare to some of the borderline cases does he have enough other stuff to get him in? other stuff being the gold gloves, awards, mvp votes, all star games.

and what do you think he would need from here to make it in?

I think if he gets to 1000 extra base hits and 1525+ RBIS he should be in. but that would put him in comparison with Fred McGriffs total. McGriff didn't get voted in but he did lead the league in HRs a few times and did get 1500 RBIs but did not have 9 gold gloves or the same relationship with the media (voters) Hunter does. And there are many who feel McGriff should be in.

I think it will be fun to watch and your points are real good too.

 

McGriff was considered an exceptional defensive first baseman, but Gold Gloves are pretty meaningless throughout the field as a measure of defensive value, most of all at first base. McGriff was also quite hospitable with the media and an offensive stalwart for a World Series champion in his career. All those things would put him above Hunter.

[biggentleben]

 

It should get him in. He has set the standard for center fielders in the last 15 years.

 

Interesting since he hasn't even played the position in 5 years, and even then, he wasn't considered the best CF in the game most years before that.  Not sure where that perception is from.

[diehardtwinsfan]

yeah, I think the case is borderline.  If he can stick around a couple more seasons and get the counting stats, that might do it.  In the end though, his main problem is that he peaked offensively a bit late in his 20s.  Had he figured things out a bit earlier, I think he's in. 

[JB_Iowa]

If the Twins miraculously make the playoffs and advance this year, does that change your thoughts?

[formerly33]

 

If the Twins miraculously make the playoffs and advance this year, does that change your thoughts?

If we wouldn't have made had it not been for those 48 home runs Torii blasted out of the park during the regular season - oh, and that .313 batting average certainly helped, too ... and the extension which led to another great season in 2016.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I think the simplest response to this question is "Torii Hunter is not a HoF player". WAR isn't the be-all, end-all of HoF voting but it gives decent insight into the overall impact of a player.

 

Torii Hunter has a lower career fWAR than Joe Mauer.

 

We can't even get the voters on board with electing Tim Raines and it took them years to vote in Dawson, for crying out loud... at that point, Hunter shouldn't even be in the conversation.

[jimmer]

 

This position to me is interesting.  He must have a sterling reputation in Minnesota because he doesn't have that reputation with other team's media throughout his career. He's known as being fairly standoffish to the opposition's beat guy over his career. Hunter has also stuck his foot in his mouth with some of his comments over his career off the field and refused to address many of these outside of a special few reporters, which doesn't endear him on a national basis.

I hear/read national media guys gushing over him all the time.  I can't speak for local media of Anaheim and Detroit cause I don't live there, but from a national standpoint, he seems very well liked by the media.

 

And yes, he has stuck his foot in his mouth on multiple occasions as well as other things, yet he gets a pass by a lot of the national media and not a small fraction of his fans.

 

He's always willing to talk to the media, seems to love to talk to them for the most part, which gives them stuff to write without having to push too hard. And the writers vote.

[DaveW]

Would the fork be enshrined as well?

 

Hunter isn't a hall of fame player, a good one no doubt and he will make the twins hall of fame.

 

The real question is: should the twins retire his number?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Would the fork be enshrined as well?

Hunter isn't a hall of fame player, a good one no doubt and he will make the twins hall of fame.

The real question is: should the twins retire his number?

I think so. He was the face of the Twins during a resurgent 6-7 year period when they won a lot of baseball games.

 

Hunter is the type of player that qualifies for the "Hall of Very Good", which makes him a good candidate for retiring his number... A 21st century Kent Hrbek (a pretty underrated player when you look back at his career). Not good enough for the Big Hall but certainly good enough for the Team Hall.

[jimmer]

 

Would the fork be enshrined as well?

Hunter isn't a hall of fame player, a good one no doubt and he will make the twins hall of fame.

The real question is: should the twins retire his number?

I think they may retire his number.  Whether they should or not, I don't know.  We have, what, 6 players and Kelly's number retired along with Jackie's # 42?

[jimmer]

 

I think so. He was the face of the Twins during a resurgent 6-7 year period when they won a lot of baseball games.

 

Hunter is the type of player that qualifies for the "Hall of Very Good", which makes him a good candidate for retiring his number... A 21st century Kent Hrbek (a pretty underrated player when you look back at his career). Not good enough for the Big Hall but certainly good enough for the Team Hall.

Was he the face of the team though?  I think we saw them push M&M quite a bit and that winning extended three more years after he left.

 

Certainly wouldn't bother me if they did and I think they will.

[DaveW]

I personally wouldn't retire his number, it sets the bar too low. I would retire Johan's number before Hunters.

[DaveW]

I think so. He was the face of the Twins during a resurgent 6-7 year period when they won a lot of baseball games.

 

Hunter is the type of player that qualifies for the "Hall of Very Good", which makes him a good candidate for retiring his number... A 21st century Kent Hrbek (a pretty underrated player when you look back at his career). Not good enough for the Big Hall but certainly good enough for the Team Hall.

Hrbek has the two rings which count for a lot, if he didn't have those his number wouldn't be retired.

 

Good news is that Hunter will have one after this year, so maybe that bumps him upz

[jimmer]

 

I personally wouldn't retire his number, it sets the bar too low. I would retire Johan's number before Hunters.

Unfortunately Johan didn't pitch for us enough, no matter how great he was. One of my favorite pitchers and Twins of all time though.

[jimmer]

 

Hrbek has the two rings which count for a lot, if he didn't have those his number wouldn't be retired.

Good news is that Hunter will have one after this year, so maybe that bumps him upz

I didn't hear that Hunter was getting traded to the Cards.  When did that happen? :-)