2016 Election Thread

[Mike Sixel]

I wonder if I5 is open during the day here? I need to get downtown and back over lunch.....

[Squirrel]

 

For those of you who are a bit concerned, one thing you can do is become a member of the ACLU.  The ACLU is the largest civil rights non-profit in the world and argues more cases at the US Supreme Court than anyone other than the DOJ.  I know several of the people that work at the ACLU-MN and they are all pretty good people who care deeply about our Constitution and its protections.

 

You can join here ---> https://www.aclu-mn.org/get-involved/supportus/becomeamember/

 

And you can read more about the ACLU and its efforts to protect our Constitution from several Trump proposals here ---> https://www.aclu.org/

 

I'd also point out that the ACLU is non-partisan and has sued the Obama administration on everything from national surveillance, privacy, immigrant rights, police abuse cases and racial profiling.  

Yup ... been a member off and on for a long time.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Stupid
Ignorant
Idiotic
Vapid

Are those demographics? I'd say they were all involved.

And none of those imply uneducated.

 

yes, the old scare tactic approach.  Apparently, there are no stupid Democrats... or so I'm being told to believe.  This is the crap that needs to stop, and it needed to stop 50 years ago.  Personally, I think those demographics are more appropriate for those that simply check a party line, and there's plenty of that on both sides of the aisle.

 

Seriously.  I don't think it's that hard to recognize that there are plenty of intelligent people who wanted nothing to do with Hillary Clinton in the White House. If you had put a gun to my head and forced me to choose, the lesser of two evils would have still been Trump. Thankfully, I had better options. Perhaps you should take a long look as to why it is that a majority of voters in this country did not vote for Hillary. They didn't want more of the same, as they recognized how destructive it has been.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about Trump. His honeymoon will be over in a matter of a few weeks, and if he does nothing but usher in more of the same, he'll be out the door in 4 years or sooner. His own party hates him, so as soon as it gets rough, they will hang him out to dry.

[Craig Arko]

 

 If you had put a gun to my head and forced me to choose, the lesser of two evils would have still been Trump. .

Luckily that's not the way civilized people operate.

[twinsnorth49]

yes, the old scare tactic approach. Apparently, there are no stupid Democrats... or so I'm being told to believe. This is the crap that needs to stop, and it needed to stop 50 years ago. Personally, I think those demographics are more appropriate for those that simply check a party line, and there's plenty of that on both sides of the aisle.

 

Seriously. I don't think it's that hard to recognize that there are plenty of intelligent people who wanted nothing to do with Hillary Clinton in the White House. If you had put a gun to my head and forced me to choose, the lesser of two evils would have still been Trump. Thankfully, I had better options. Perhaps you should take a long look as to why it is that a majority of voters in this country did not vote for Hillary. They didn't want more of the same, as they recognized how destructive it has been.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about Trump. His honeymoon will be over in a matter of a few weeks, and if he does nothing but usher in more of the same, he'll be out the door in 4 years or sooner. His own party hates him, so as soon as it gets rough, they will hang him out to dry.

Good luck. We have a very different view of the world and what qualifies as change.

[twinsnorth49]

Luckily that's not the way civilized people operate.

Unfortunately those people seem to be vanishing.

[Craig Arko]

 

Unfortunately those people seem to be vanishing.

There are more out there than we realize. It;s just that many civilized people do not have big mouths.

 

But their actions may yet be felt.

[jimmer]

Three more states allowing recreational pot use.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Luckily that's not the way civilized people operate.

 

Really?  Just under 130 million votes were cast with 120 million or so going to two candidates that most people hated in some capacity, including I might add, the people that voted for them. Civilized people would realize that neither were good options and would have voted for someone else.  Civilized people would have understood that voting for a **** candidate because their not a ****ier candidate still leaves you with one really big pile of steaming you know what.

 

I really really really really really wish people understood just how bad a candidate HRC really was, because the reaction here shows a level of cluelessness that I cannot put into words. Bernie Sanders would have mopped the floor with Trump, just as much as Ron Paul could have done so with Obama four years ago. 

 

If the system wasn't rigged, Garry Johnson or Jill Stein or a half dozen others that didn't even appear on the ballots would have destroyed them both, but since electioneering is legal in this country, they got pushed aside... all in the name of a ludicrous concept that makes zero logical sense other than to perpetuate the fraud that we call Democrats and Republicans. 

 

Go ahead, call it civilized so you can sleep well at night. But that isn't the right term that defines this mess, and you know it.  That's why Trump is President right now. It's why Obama became President 8 years ago, and it is why nothing is going to change until real change starts to happen.

 

The system won on Tuesday.  It won because just about everyone in this country (including those that didn't vote) failed to recognize that they are a part of the problem.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Good luck. We have a very different view of the world and what qualifies as change.

 

To be clear, I think the Reps and Dems are two wings of the same bird driving this country to destruction... and everyone else perpetuates the problem by stereotyping their opponent without addressing the situations at hand.

 

Racism/sexism may be a problem, but that isn't what got Trump elected this week. As pointed out by others... he got elected in spite of these things. If people don't start looking at the 'why' of the problem, we will be looking at the same or an equally unpalatable candidate for the office in four years.

[nicksaviking]

Really?  Just under 130 million votes were cast with 120 million or so going to two candidates that most people hated in some capacity, including I might add, the people that voted for them. Civilized people would realize that neither were good options and would have voted for someone else.  Civilized people would have understood that voting for a **** candidate because their not a ****ier candidate still leaves you with one really big pile of steaming you know what.

Only one of them was a **** candidate and Trump's greatest feat was convincing so many people otherwise.

 

Not all of his supporters are bigots, but enough are that hate crimes are spiking in a mere 48 hours since the election. Those that voted for him, even the non-bigots, clearly thought this is acceptable collateral damage because none of this was unexpected.

[stringer bell]

When they finish counting all the ballots, it looks like Clinton will have about half a million more votes than Trump, which is approximately the same "margin" that Gore had over Bush. What is interesting is that Clinton could have added one percent across the board and still wouldn't have won. Trump won states totaling 280 electoral votes by over 1%, so I guess maybe the system is rigged.

 

I wrote on Election Night that Democrats will have to endure the trifecta is DC, but that things really look up for them in the next cycles. They probably won't take back either chamber of Congress in 2018, but I predict that they'll make big gains in the House in 2018 unless Congress and Trump can succeed and I sincerely doubt that. 2020 will be the chance to take back the Senate and the White House and set up a much different redistricting scenario in 2021.

[DaveW]

Dow Jones closed at a record high.

 

It's not as doom and gloom as people think. It's America, we will be fine.

 

Trumps not going to ban muslims, he's not going to build a wall, he's not going to scale back gay tights and abortions, he's not going to destroy all of Obamacare.

 

It will be ok people.

[DaveW]

Bernie wouldn't have stood a chance. At least with trump my taxes and a good number of folks are going to go down, with Bernie the economy would have instantly crashed and my taxes would have went UP to forgive a bunch of lazy idiots student loans and other handouts to people who don't need them.

 

(For the record I am a huge fan of welfare, Medicare, food stamps, financial aid to poor people etc)

[Shane Wahl]

 

I think the gop has been cutting education spending and ripping on intelligence as a plan to dumb down the country so they can pollute and take all our money for over two decades now....I have been predicting this for most of that time. I don't know how you undo that. And the gerrymandering is almost unstoppable now.

 

This is obviously true. 

[Shane Wahl]

 

Perhaps.  

 

The optimist in me hopes the Democrats look internally and see how they've largely ignored, and had outright contempt, for so many middle Americans that they'll change who they are to better represent the populace.  Which is the exact opposite of what the Republicans did after they took their butt kicking 8 years ago.

 

The realist in me is worried we've only seen the beginning of this.  And many of the talking heads out there right now are confirming those fears.

 

this.

[Shane Wahl]

 

Most pointless protests ever IMHO.

This isn't protesting against a war, this isn't protesting human rights, or against police brutality. This is a protest literally against the rest of the countries citizens that voted to elect Trump???

I don't like the result either, but these protestors should be trying to bridge the gap between them and Trump voters (if the ever want them to maybe change their thinking) instead these protests make them dig their heels in further and validate their choices.

As our next POtUs would say:

SAD!

 

These are people who, rightly or wrongly, believe their rights and lives are on the line.

[Shane Wahl]

 

That's interesting. Problem is, I doubt that statement would be said about Trump protesters if they were doing the protesting had Clinton won.  They would have all just been labeled uneducated white males who were racist and sexist.

 

One has to wonder if there is a difference between people protesting bigotry and those protesting to actually be bigots. Oh my god .. . .no difference whatsoever!!!!

[DaveW]

These are people who, rightly or wrongly, believe their rights and lives are on the line.

Some yes, and my heart goes out for them. But the majority? No freaking way.

 

If you are a 18-29 year old white person (90% of the protesters) that simply isn't even close to the case.

[DaveW]

I think the biggest issue I have seen is liberals claiming that anyone who voted for trump is a racist, bigot etc

 

Calling someone a racist is a very very very powerful thing. In fact in our society it is only trumped (no pun intended) by being called a rapist or pedofile.

 

Does trump have some disgusting, awful and racist fans/part of his base? Absolutely, 100% no doubt about it. Is part of his base uneducated and were duped into voting against their own self interests? Yup!

 

But to paint some broad brush that all 50 million people who voted for him are dumb and racist is incredibly naive, offensive and only furthers the divide. I'd argue that the majority of people who voted for him are neither "super dumb" or "racist" if I'm wrong then our world as a whole is pretty ****ed anyways.

[Shane Wahl]

No more being a trolling prick.

 

This was totally shocking, of course. There is an explanation out there . . . and it tries to square the hell up with the fact that 42% of women and 29% of Latinos voted for Trump. 60+ million people voted for this guy somehow. I am not going to sit here and call 60 million Americans racist, sexist, deplorables. God what a mistake. Anyway, let's say 20 million of them . . . actually are that. Give or take. I might be optimistic. Anyway, some 30-40 million people are just feeling simply screwed at life because of economic situations. A friend of mine predicted Michigan because of NAFTA NAFTA NAFTA, and there is a point there. The Democratic Party, in its pursuit of neoliberalism, has let millions of people go by the wayside. Or they at least haven't taken these people seriously. Liberalism broadly construed is totally failing institutionally. We provide only welfare for people out of middle class jobs. That is insane. Sanders captured that and appealed to these people as both someone who cared out the plight of working class and lower-middle class people struggling to get by in life. This Clintonite era is DONE. It is DONE. To be someone who does not realize that is to be a part of the problem. 

So now what? Well, these Trumpets are to be feared, but it is time for the Left as a whole to wake up and actually realize that Democracy is a verb and not a noun. It happened in 2008 and there has been nothing since then. The Democratic Party has actually faltered totally in the Obama era. This is a reality to be confronted.

 

The left is notorious for not caring about midterm elections and about local or state elections. THAT needs to end right now. But electoral reform is not all that is required. This is clearly a cultural battle. We need to educate, and this is not merely about actual professional educators. White people in these rust belt states honestly have no idea that they are more ****ed by Trump. They do not understand that. Furthermore, it is time to take over other things. Letters to the Editor, letters to state congressman, state senators, U.S. congressman, U.S senators, etc. Petition signing for various causes. Forming lobbying groups that share expenses for trips to your capitol or the capitol. Funding non-governmental organizations that support the rights of GLBTQ people, immigrants, Muslims, African Americans, Latinos, and women. And men, for that matter. BUY that damn Wellstone book on how to run progressives and win. 20 bucks on Amazon. Run for office. Get others to run. No more uncontested republican races ever again at any level, etc. etc. 

 

IF these evil policies start to come forward .. . that is the time to amp it all up and protest vehemently.

 

The Left must be galvanized by this toward unification to take the entire culture back. 

[Shane Wahl]

Think about modernizing the Democratic-Farmer-Laborer party for the 21st century and spreading that out nationally.

[Shane Wahl]

 

Some yes, and my heart goes out for them. But the majority? No freaking way.

If you are a 18-29 year old white person (90% of the protesters) that simply isn't even close to the case.

 

UH, yeah the minority. Indeed. Literally minorities. Like . . . literally them.

[Shane Wahl]

Sanders is pushing for Keith Ellison to be DNC leader. Obviously yes. This entire party needs an overhaul because it has now been totally thrashed. Workers, workers, worker, workers.

[DaveW]

UH, yeah the minority. Indeed. Literally minorities. Like . . . literally them.

Yeah and like I said, I definitely feel for them. I am marrying a "minority" in 9 months, and our children will be minorities as well.

 

My issue is with the annoying white college age kids protesting just because their candidate didn't win.

 

It makes Dems look like a bunch of ****ing babies.

[DaveW]

I agree the Democratic Party needs to change, but Bernie Sanders and socialism is not the change it needs... embracing socialism will only ensure that the GOP holds congress and the White House for the next 8+ years minimum. If you want socialism go move to a country that embraces it, and enjoy the 50% tax on your income and all the issues that come along with it.

[Craig Arko]

Stupid

Ignorant

Idiotic

Vapid

Are those demographics? I'd say they were all involved.

And none of those imply uneducated.

You forgot:

 

Greedy

Self-absorbed

Myopic

And greedy

[biggentleben]

So my take on protesting is this...

 

For at least two generations, Americans have sat back and taken what the government gave them. They've trusted the government to take care of them and the elected representatives that they put in office to make the best decisions for them.

 

That has been very obviously changing in the last decade, and drastically so in the last few years, which is a lot of what led to the movement that spiked Trump and Sanders in primary season within their own parties.

 

Now Trump gets elected with a "first 100 days" platform that drastically scares minorities, women, and LGBTQ. There are many who are incredibly worried for themselves and/or their good friends who identify in those groups, and they want to make this known.

 

Right now, protest is the way they know. Violent protest is absolutely bull and shouldn't be acceptable at all, but the interviews initially out of Seattle and Chicago were from people who were protesting the things in Trumps 100 days policies, and that's a legitimate reason to protest.

 

Rather than "just" protesting, hopefully those same people find the next level, which is getting themselves involved with their local government, state government, and so on as a powerful voice. America lost the "by the people" part long ago, and hopefully this can be a call to bring it back...

[TheLeviathan]

Two days removed and condescending, elitist liberals still can't figure this out.

 

30% of his own voters didn't like him. Huge chunks of voters across the rust belt flipped from Obama voters to Trump voters. Millions of left voters the last eight years stayed home. Women and Latinos voted for Trump at rates consistent with past candidates, unshaken by his rhetoric. The data says all this asinine talk about who Trump voters are is a false narrative liberals are wrapping themselves in so they don't have to face the truth of their own failures.

 

So why are perfectly decent Americans of all walks voting for Trump? Because they are sick of an elitist system that condescendingly mocks them and their plight. They are largely aware Trump does nothing for them and they don't care.

 

What has the left ever done but mock them? Who gives a rip about them in either major party?

 

Hillary losing sucks for a lot of us. Welcome to the world of millions of largely mocked and ignored people that have been screaming for help for the last decade. Stop mocking them and thinking this is about race or gender or hate.

 

It's about change. So stop condescending their plight. Understand the desperation or risk this desperation continuing.

[Craig Arko]