2016 Election Thread

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Rand Paul calling out Republicans on military spending is a HUGE moment.

He isn't going anywhere in this election, but man I hope he stays in it to keep needling Rubio and others on those policies.

I don't care for much of Rand Paul's policies but he's a good guy to have in Congress. He's an anti-partisan pot-stirrer who often does what he thinks is right, not what the party thinks is right.

 

We could use a few more Rand Pauls in Congress. Not necessarily Libertarian, just people who put their conscience above party politics.

[Squirrel]

 

I don't care for much of Rand Paul's policies but he's a good guy to have in Congress. He's an anti-partisan pot-stirrer who often does what he thinks is right, not what the party thinks is right.

 

We could use a few more Rand Pauls in Congress. Not necessarily Libertarian, just people who put their conscience above party politics.

This is why I like Bernie Sanders ... not for president, though. While his politics are far different, he's not a 'party' man. Heck, he's been an independent for years, why some Democrats don't think it's right he's running for president as a Democrat, because he's never really aligned himself fully to the party. But he says and does what he thinks is right. Whether you agree with what he says (I happen to on much of it), you know he's telling you straight. Of all the debates, on both sides, the fact checkers have found very little 'wrong' in his answers vs everyone else.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

This is why I like Bernie Sanders ... not for president, though. While his politics are far different, he's not a 'party' man. Heck, he's been an independent for years, why some Democrats don't think it's right he's running for president as a Democrat, because he's never really aligned himself fully to the party. But he says and does what he thinks is right. Whether you agree with what he says (I happen to on much of it), you know he's telling you straight. Of all the debates, on both sides, the fact checkers have found very little 'wrong' in his answers vs everyone else.

I feel Paul and Sanders are complementary pieces of the right and left. Both seem to be good men, though I find Sanders' policy less distasteful overall (some of his ideas... sheesh, pie-in-the-sky stuff).

[TheLeviathan]

I'd love it if Sanders and Rand were left alone to handle most of our major decisions.  They'd work out some pretty damn good solutions I think.

 

Neither would make good Presidents, but they're the kind of people we need telling everyone else to shut up and think about what lunacy the party line is taking.

[DaveW]

The amount of racist bile coming out of the GOP nominations lately (an their supporters) in regards to the Syria refugees makes me seriously ashamed to be an American. I honestly haven't felt that before.

 

750,000 refugees have come to the USA since 9/11, exactly zero have committed terrorist acts that have killed anyone. Meanwhile we can't go a ****ing month without some lonely white citizen taking out a dozen or so at a school, mall or movie theatre.

 

I'm summation:

 

 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WD3lgI9QIV8

[DaveW]

I'd love it if Sanders and Rand were left alone to handle most of our major decisions. They'd work out some pretty damn good solutions I think.

 

Neither would make good Presidents, but they're the kind of people we need telling everyone else to shut up and think about what lunacy the party line is taking.

Great thoughts. We need more of them on BOTH sides.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Great thoughts. We need more of them on BOTH sides.

 

I really think we just need a smart liberal to identify the problem and a smart libertarian to solve it.

 

95% of our issues would be solved just with that simple process.  

[mikecgrimes]

 

The amount of racist bile coming out of the GOP nominations lately (an their supporters) in regards to the Syria refugees makes me seriously ashamed to be an American. I honestly haven't felt that before.

750,000 refugees have come to the USA since 9/11, exactly zero have committed terrorist acts that have killed anyone. Meanwhile we can't go a ****ing month without some lonely white citizen taking out a dozen or so at a school, mall or movie theatre.

I'm summation:


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WD3lgI9QIV8

The difference more then 99.99% of white people would do everything in their power to stop a school shooting.  If White people were blowing people up, and having large scale attacks as often as we're seeing what wouldn't you do to stop it?  I get that people can feel powerless to stop it but at least shout about it if nothing else.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The difference more then 99.99% of white people would do everything in their power to stop a school shooting.  If White people were blowing people up, and having large scale attacks as often as we're seeing what wouldn't you do to stop it?  I get that people can feel powerless to stop it but at least shout about it if nothing else.

We shouldn't assume relative peace of today will continue to be the relative peace of tomorrow.

 

It wasn't so long ago when certain Irish elements were, in fact, blowing people up.

 

Context is necessary here. People don't become terrorists for funsies. There has to be a breakdown of society, a complete lack of hope things will improve, and some pretty damned dire circumstances to create such an event. Just because white people aren't suffering from that malady today does not mean they're incapable of the same horrors currently seen in the middle east.

 

There are 1.6b Muslim people on earth, roughly 25% of the entire world's population. The overwhelming majority of them are not blowing people up.

 

Do you also blame the citizens of Rwanda for not stopping the genocide? After all, that's a Christian nation.

 

It's far too easy to shrug off this kind of situation, refer to the populace/religion as "savages", and move on with your day... But, in the end, that accomplishes nothing. Suggesting white people "won't allow" this sort of behavior flies directly in the face of not-very-distant history and implies an inkling of superiority.

[DaveW]

The difference more then 99.99% of white people would do everything in their power to stop a school shooting. If White people were blowing people up, and having large scale attacks as often as we're seeing what wouldn't you do to stop it? I get that people can feel powerless to stop it but at least shout about it if nothing else.

Yeah, this is a bizzarre analogy.

 

99.99% of white people have stood by genocides for centuries committed by other "white people" on "white people"

[mikecgrimes]

 

Yeah, this is a bizzarre analogy.

99.99% of white people have stood by genocides for centuries committed by other "white people" on "white people"

 

School shootings were compared to terrorist bombings.  I see no disagreement to the point I made.  The overreaching to call people on my side of the argument racist is disgusting.  Don't call me and everyone that agrees with me racist, and then when I challenge it change the context so it fits your argument. 

[PseudoSABR]

 

School shootings were compared to terrorist bombings.  I see no disagreement to the point I made.  The overreaching to call people on my side of the argument racist is disgusting.  Don't call me and everyone that agrees with me racist, and then when I challenge it change the context so it fits your argument. 

Dude, by suggesting that the white race would act differently than other races you invite the label all on your own. 

[mikecgrimes]

 

Dude, by suggesting that the white race would act differently than other races you invite the label on your own. 

 

I wasn't the one who brought up the white race

[PseudoSABR]

 

I wasn't the one who brought up the white race

That doesn't change the implication of what you said.

[TheLeviathan]

 

School shootings were compared to terrorist bombings.  I see no disagreement to the point I made.  The overreaching to call people on my side of the argument racist is disgusting.  Don't call me and everyone that agrees with me racist, and then when I challenge it change the context so it fits your argument. 

 

What was your point?  White people are more likely to yell at a terrorist by some random percentage you made up?

 

As far as I can tell the result is the same in your preposterous analogy - the murderer usually kills a bunch of people and himself before the situation ends.  

 

So the analogy is kind of dumb and you couple it with an implication that non-whites let murderers do what they want.  So it was dumb and racist.

[DaveW]

 

  The overreaching to call people on my side of the argument racist is disgusting.  Don't call me and everyone that agrees with me racist,

But what you implied is actually racist. That's fine, I don't hold it against you, everyone has their own prejudices in some form, I'm not calling you a racist, I'm just saying your scenario you suggested is racist. Just own it.

[Mike Sixel]

Hey, cool, a national database for Muslims.......that's not a violation of our constitution or anything, say all the gun owners every where....

[TheLeviathan]

The Republican refugee response may hopefully be another nail in the coffin of this version of right wing politics.

 

I just want some freaking financial ingenuity, stability, and efficiency....can't I get a candidate that wants that without also hating immigrants?  

[USMCTwin]

 

Hey, cool, a national database for Muslims.......that's not a violation of our constitution or anything, say all the gun owners every where....

 

Is anyone actually calling for this? My apologies if I missed, not trying to be snarky just curious. I lean right on most social issues, but I would be appalled if somebody was actually endorsing this.

 

Unlike many of my conservative counterparts I am in favor of taking in refugees. But, I do think this is more a symptom of the problem and not the problem itself. It would be similar, in my mind at least, taking in Jewish refugees in World War 2, and sticking with some very systematic bombing of Germany, but letting, by doing nothing, Hitler continue to reign. Like I said in the other thread I know it's super complex, but we really need to be doing more, it's appalling what these people are going through. But, shutting off our borders for when people need us the most doesn't seem like the right thing to do. That being said we really need to fix the problem. I know saying it is easier than actually fixing it, but it really needs to be done. At the very least we need to apologize to the refugees as we usher them in for not intervening earlier.

[Mike Sixel]

Yes, Trump is.....well, he's "considering it"...even that is enough for me. It amazes me people want these guys in power over their freedoms.

[USMCTwin]

 

The Republican refugee response may hopefully be another nail in the coffin of this version of right wing politics.

 

I just want some freaking financial ingenuity, stability, and efficiency....can't I get a candidate that wants that without also hating immigrants?  

 

I know it was spearheaded by Republicans, but 47 Democrats in the house voted in lock-step with the Republicans on this one. Again I think we should take in refugees most certainly, but I think painting this as a Republican issue is an oversimplification and more divisive than true.

[DaveW]

 

The Republican refugee response may hopefully be another nail in the coffin of this version of right wing politics.

 

I just want some freaking financial ingenuity, stability, and efficiency....can't I get a candidate that wants that without also hating immigrants?  

It will be, people's emotions are still raw and shaken from the Paris attacks, and these *******s are joining it to get everyone more scared and riled up, come a month from now we will look back at this and just shake our heads at what Huckabee (I know he isn't running), Trump, Carson, and all those governors have said.

[USMCTwin]

 

Yes, Trump is.....well, he's "considering it"...even that is enough for me. It amazes me people want these guys in power over their freedoms.

 

Sorry, I missed that. But I stand by my original statement Trump is appalling to me. If my options were the Donald and Hillary my head would explode. I have never taken him seriously and am surprised he still polls well.

[Mike Sixel]

I agree, fear is, as I said back a bit, not political........both sides have their people further on the fear spectrum than I am. Yes, the GOP is politicizing the hell out of this (irony alert!), but I don't blame them for that. I am disappointed in those that voted this way.

[Squirrel]

 

Is anyone actually calling for this? My apologies if I missed, not trying to be snarky just curious. I lean right on most social issues, but I would be appalled if somebody was actually endorsing this.

 

Here's one link ... albeit not a news source I would normally use, but ... basically, he doesn't rule out the idea of Syrian refugees having to wear some kind of ID tags ... and some on the right applaud this while comparing Obama to Hitler?

[Mike Sixel]

OMG, he wants them to wear ID? Do people NOT READ ANY HISTORY or believe in FREEDOM? 

[mikecgrimes]

 

That doesn't change the implication of what you said.

 

So if I say something that at this point despite several replies nobody has disagreed with about white people I'm a racist?  That's cool.  The guy who put all school shootings on the white race as an equal to terrorism of course is just a nice guy who has no bias at all.  Every Republican has been called racist so much the last 7 years the term has become meaningless.   I didn't even say anything bad about any race all I said is white people do not support school shootings and regardlesss of politics want's to do something about them. 

[USAFChief]

 

So if I say something that at this point despite several replies nobody has disagreed with about white people I'm a racist?  That's cool.  The guy who put all school shootings on the white race as an equal to terrorism of course is just a nice guy who has no bias at all.  Every Republican has been called racist so much the last 7 years the term has become meaningless.   I didn't even say anything bad about any race all I said is white people do not support school shootings and regardlesss of politics want's to do something about them. 

I find myself agreeing with you on this.

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

I know it was spearheaded by Republicans, but 47 Democrats in the house voted in lock-step with the Republicans on this one. Again I think we should take in refugees most certainly, but I think painting this as a Republican issue is an oversimplification and more divisive than true.

 

Republicans in Congress are spearheading, Republican Pres. candidates are banging the drum, and Republican governors are backing them.

 

Sorry man, it is a Republican issue.

[PseudoSABR]

 

So if I say something that at this point despite several replies nobody has disagreed with about white people I'm a racist?  That's cool.  The guy who put all school shootings on the white race as an equal to terrorism of course is just a nice guy who has no bias at all.  Every Republican has been called racist so much the last 7 years the term has become meaningless.   I didn't even say anything bad about any race all I said is white people do not support school shootings and regardlesss of politics want's to do something about them. 

Distinctions made because of race--even against the white race--are racists.  Whether it's based in reason or experience, it's still racist.  It's when you take that limited experience and those reasons and apply it to the next person of that race that makes it racists. (e.g. using the incident in France, to bar Syrian refugees, letting some braver, more decent State take the burden.)

 

As to the merit of what you said, I'm sure many disagreed, but hardly thought it was a productive conversation to have.  (I mean how do you argue with made up statistics.)  And for the record, you implied that White people would go further than other people to stop school shootings. 

 

If Republicans want to stop being called racist, quit promoting policy that discriminates non-whites and protects white privilege.