Staying the Course

[jorgenswest]

Many didn't agree with the roster decisions the Twins made. I hoped they would make some different decisions.

 

Without revisiting each decision, it is important the Twins stay the course. They need to let the season go well into May and reassess. Some samples will no longer be small then. Making and following a plan is far better than reacting to every bad stretch and slump. Injuries will drive some changes. Short time spans should not.

 

Reassess somewhere between 25 and 40 games. I am not sure what we fill the forums with until then, but it is way too early to change course right now.

[Mike Sixel]

Disagree on the bullpen and Pinto. The pen has bad pitchers in it, with track records. Pinto, well, I have a thread on that.

[jorgenswest]

Disagree on the bullpen and Pinto. The pen has bad pitchers in it, with track records. Pinto, well, I have a thread on that.

Once they have chosen a direction, I think they need to see it through. I think they expected Pinto to hit well. I think they wanted him to get regularly playing time at catcher. Nothing in this short time span should have changed that assessment. Let Pinto get 25 starts at catcher in AAA and then assess his progress behind the plate.

 

I disagree with the decisions on Pinto and bullpen. There will be a time to assess those decisions. It isn't two weeks into a season.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Once they have chosen a direction, I think they need to see it through.

Not all directions are chosen equally, though.

 

For every Gibson, May, Santana, etc. that we're glad to see patience shown, there's a 2014 Florimon, Correia, Burton, Kubel, etc. that never really had much potential or future in Minnesota anyway.

 

I don't see the value in treating both groups of players as worthy of equal patience and time investments.

[jorgenswest]

Not all directions are chosen equally, though.

 

For every Gibson, May, Santana, etc. that we're glad to see patience shown, there's a 2014 Florimon, Correia, Burton, Kubel, etc. that never really had much potential or future in Minnesota anyway.

 

I don't see the value in treating both groups of players as worthy of equal patience and time investments.

It isn't always about the player that is in the majors. They must have assessed that Tonkin or Presley having something they need to work on in AAA. If true, there hasn't been near enough time for them to have made progress. The same can be said of Pinto, Hicks and Rosario.

 

I think they made the wrong decision, but they make it worse by sending them to AAA for a short time span without giving them time to make progress. For Tonkin, Presley, Hicks and Pinto let's hope the next time they come up is for good and progress is evident.

[PseudoSABR]

Good thread, OP!  

 

The Twins mediocrity thus far allows them to tread water and reassess who they should keep and who they should promote.  I'm sure the Twins had some fuzzy if-everything-goes-right feelings, but really the outcome we have is the one they probably had planned on.   Hopefully in a month, some promotions will be in order and it will be clear whom to jettison. 

[USAFChief]

On Pinto specifically, wasn't there general consensus he would come north until the concussion scare late in spring? That's obviously not a concern, so I would view bringing him up differently. Bringing him up would be more of a return to the plan than a change from it, no?

[Kwak]

I am wondering why all of the hand wringing? There was plenty of evidence that 2015 was a "mark time" season--and oh soo many posts in TD. Let all of this play out for two months. Then, look at Hicks, the RPs at Rochester, and any other position player that is both a legitimate prospect at AAA and having a strong season. 

Every year from 2011 has had an over-heavy MiL element starting for the Twins come mid-season. It is like a "give-up" signal and a losing season snowballs to 90+ losses. I believe by letting all-of-this "marginal major-leaguer" strategy play-out to its conclusion will convince top management that this is a failing strategy. Then, a change will be made to "bite-the-bullet" and "play the future", showing patience while taking the inevitable lumps. In short, no more "this guy stinks" after two weeks, "demote him and promote someone else". PATIENCE is required.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

On Pinto specifically, wasn't there general consensus he would come north until the concussion scare late in spring? That's obviously not a concern, so I would view bringing him up differently. Bringing him up would be more of a return to the plan than a change from it, no?

I agree with you Chief. He had some misfortune this spring training and now that he is getting back into gear, it should not be long before he is recalled.

 

When he gets back up play him half of the time with Suzuki. It is time for the Twins to attempt to do what the Yankees did in 1997-1998, the Girardi transition to Jorge Posada. Sure, Posada was no Picasso of defense and neither will Pinto, but the offensive potential is too great to make that a sticking point.

 

Pinto's offensive potential is very inspiring.

[Shane Wahl]

This could actually be a very good thread with patient, reasoned discussion about what development actually means and where it is best to be had for various players. 

 

I do agree with some others about Pinto and the bullpen, however. Pinto was just down for some lost time, I thought. What in the world? Now they seem to have a different thing in mind about him? I see Nunez as falling rapidly in production off the bench while Herrmann might be sufficient. I have said this elsewhere, but I see no problem in Pinto being a bench player who gets a couple starts behind the play, a DH start once every 8-10 games, and then an almost mandatory PH at bat for Schafer or Robinson. Use the guy for Twins wins and get him time in MLB because the Suzuki ride will end eventually. I don't see it last much into June for that guy this year. This "playing every day" stuff is funny, especially with regard to catchers. 

The bullpen could be totally reworked outside of Fien and Perkins right now! And wait on Aaron Thompson, because, hey, he is performing as a true reliever instead of a starter/reliever as in the minors. Four new guys. Get $25,000 back for Graham, eat Stauffer's contract with waivers, send Thielbar back down, and waive Boyer. Duensing can go too somehow after he comes back. This is just silly. Tonkin, Oliveros, Achter, and O'Rourke are immediate viable options for a trial.

[old nurse]

Unless Jorge Polanco can do a Mookie Betts in the outfield I don't know if there is really anyone in the minors to make you go "Great !!!!!"  when they are called up that is performing well in AAA or AA.  They wll have to figurhappened to Shaffer's bat from last year.

 

I do not know if Tonkin is Slama part 2. He is doing well but is it by deception or talent?

At   this point in their careers one of Achter or Oliveros should be up rather than Stauffer. Stauffer is purely mop up at this point DFA and see what you have in these guys.

[beckmt]

Tonkin if I remember correctly was sent down to work on secondary pitches, have no idea if that work has been completed.  Good question for TR in an interview though

[howieramone2]

 

Not all directions are chosen equally, though.

 

For every Gibson, May, Santana, etc. that we're glad to see patience shown, there's a 2014 Florimon, Correia, Burton, Kubel, etc. that never really had much potential or future in Minnesota anyway.

 

I don't see the value in treating both groups of players as worthy of equal patience and time investments.

 

Link?

[howieramone2]

 

This could actually be a very good thread with patient, reasoned discussion about what development actually means and where it is best to be had for various players. 

 

I do agree with some others about Pinto and the bullpen, however. Pinto was just down for some lost time, I thought. What in the world? Now they seem to have a different thing in mind about him? I see Nunez as falling rapidly in production off the bench while Herrmann might be sufficient. I have said this elsewhere, but I see no problem in Pinto being a bench player who gets a couple starts behind the play, a DH start once every 8-10 games, and then an almost mandatory PH at bat for Schafer or Robinson. Use the guy for Twins wins and get him time in MLB because the Suzuki ride will end eventually. I don't see it last much into June for that guy this year. This "playing every day" stuff is funny, especially with regard to catchers. 

The bullpen could be totally reworked outside of Fien and Perkins right now! And wait on Aaron Thompson, because, hey, he is performing as a true reliever instead of a starter/reliever as in the minors. Four new guys. Get $25,000 back for Graham, eat Stauffer's contract with waivers, send Thielbar back down, and waive Boyer. Duensing can go too somehow after he comes back. This is just silly. Tonkin, Oliveros, Achter, and O'Rourke are immediate viable options for a trial.

I agree, someone is being silly.

[Platoon]

On Pinto specifically, wasn't there general consensus he would come north until the concussion scare late in spring? That's obviously not a concern, so I would view bringing him up differently. Bringing him up would be more of a return to the plan than a change from it, no?

. Concur!

[Platoon]

I read somewhere that Molitor is a big fan of Hermann's. If this is what's keeping Pinto down on the farm, that is troubling. I still think that they could have kept Pinto here, this was just a convenient excuse. You could even keep Hermann, drop Nunez, and let Escobar do all the fill in starts, even in LF. This might bring up the dreaded 3 headed catcher issue again, except Hermann can play other places, kinda. As for the roster, I hated almost every decision made. But it is what it is, and I would rather they let this play out longer. Yes there are a few spots you could tweak, but this is MLB version of the Titanic. And the roster decisions were the iceberg! (Hmm, too hyperbolic?) Look at the bright side, maybe, just maybe, an off the charts season start will show ownership and the FO exactly how bad attendance and apathy can get. While it's unlikely they would get it, it's probably this years Twins fans bersion of "hope"!

[Otto von Ballpark]

It isn't always about the player that is in the majors. They must have assessed that Tonkin or Presley having something they need to work on in AAA. If true, there hasn't been near enough time for them to have made progress. The same can be said of Pinto, Hicks and Rosario.

 

I think they made the wrong decision, but they make it worse by sending them to AAA for a short time span without giving them time to make progress. For Tonkin, Presley, Hicks and Pinto let's hope the next time they come up is for good and progress is evident.

"They must have" seems like a big assumption. What if they were less concerned about specific issues with their AAA pitchers, and more concerned about Boyer's and Robinson's opt-outs?

 

Frankly, given some of this team's roster moves the past few years, I am not sure why we would assume that their April 1st, 2015 moves all had some special purpose and clarity.

[Boom Boom]

"They must have" seems like a big assumption. What if they were less concerned about specific issues with their AAA pitchers, and more concerned about Boyer's and Robinson's opt-outs?

 

Frankly, given some of this team's roster moves the past few years, I am not sure why we would assume that their April 1st, 2015 moves all had some special purpose and clarity.

This was my thought as well. The other side of letting the kids work on things in the minors is potentially giving important ML roles to guys who we already know aren't very good and punting on the first couple months of months of the season.

 

I don't think you need eight plus weeks and a great scouting mind to know that guys like Schafer and Boyer are terrible plan "A"s.