J O Berrios

[Ncgo4]

Get rid of him. He's too short to be a pitcher. He started tonight and I'll bet he got killed. Just a sec, I'll check his line.

 

6.1 innings

6 hits

1 run (earned)

1 BB

11 K's

 

A home run AND a walk? In the same game? Get rid of him NOW!

 

He and Chih-Wei Hu are my favorite pitching prospects. Young, ferocious and just the kind of prospect that Twins Mgmt doesn't seem to get their heads around. Just like Johan Santana who should have been starting at least one year and maybe a year and a half sooner. Jose and C-W will get the call if only because they won't be denied. Unless, of course, we can find and sign a 35 YO washed - up has-been starter that's tall.

[ashbury]

Aaron Slegers also pitched well in his first 2015 start for Ft Myers, 6 IP of shutout ball on 2 hits. And there you have the long and short of it!

[kab21]

That's a pointless rant.  Berrios turns 21 next month and has barely pitched in AA.  He's exactly where he should be.  The Twins are actually showing that they are much more aggressive with prospects than anyone gives them credit for with how fast they have promoted the top prospects in the last couple of years. 

[gunnarthor]

Yeah, god point. Berrios actually played at three levels last year and was invited to big league camp. The Twins know what they have. But sure nice seeing a nice debut from him.

[Seth Stohs]

Correct. Berrios shows that the Twins aren't afraid to push players who not only put up numbers, but they're getting people out with their pitches in the strike zone. He's 20. Won't be 21 for a month.

 

I tweeted earlier tonight that I do think that Berrios could be OK in the big leagues now, maybe a 4.50 ERA, though probably a little higher. But, the Twins - and we (fans) - want him to be better than OK. He's still learning and developing. They'll move him up appropriately.

 

And Hu started last year in Extended Spring Training. He moved up to E-Town to start their season and after three starts moved up to Cedar Rapids. He only made 8-9 starts with the Kernels and they still pushed him up to Ft. Myers this year. 

 

Lewis Thorpe was in Cedar Rapids last year, and he was younger than both of them. If not for his injury, he'd probably be in Ft. Myers. Ditto for Fernando Romero. 

 

The only, Twins promote guys too slow thing just isn't factual at all anymore. Maybe never really was.

[AlwaysinModeration]

And at this rate, it's not going be a long wait for Berrios to crack the Twins' rotation. Who had "Milone, Pelfrey AND May" in the rotation by the opening weekend? I'd say another time or two through and they'll need to go to JO.

[Mike Sixel]

Well.....let's see when he makes the majors. But ya, he is an argument on the other side of the May and Gibson tallies, imo.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I tweeted earlier tonight that I do think that Berrios could be OK in the big leagues now, maybe a 4.50 ERA, though probably a little higher. But, the Twins - and we (fans) - want him to be better than OK. He's still learning and developing. They'll move him up appropriately.

Really?  A 4.50 ERA would be Kyle Gibson 2014.

 

I don't know if a guy is really going to improve his ceiling by dominating minor leaguers, as compared to holding his own against big leaguers.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Aaron Slegers also pitched well in his first 2015 start for Ft Myers, 6 IP of shutout ball on 2 hits. And there you have the long and short of it!

If I remember right, he showed a lot of promise last season and got off to a real good start. It would be nice to see some of these pitching prospects shine (Duffy is another one). Speaking of Duffy, he was one of those RP guys drafted in 2012 that we all hated. He's really starting to look like he could amount to something more than a #5. His peripherals took a nice jump last season, and I'm really hoping that yesterday was something we see more of from him.

[Monkeypaws]

Speaking of Thorpe, did he go under the knife, or is he just being rested?

[Bob Sacamento]

 

Speaking of Thorpe, did he go under the knife, or is he just being rested?

As of last week, he was still in camp and said he hadn't scheduled it yet.  He was actually playing catch with a righthanders' glove.

[jokin]

 

 

 

I tweeted earlier tonight that I do think that Berrios could be OK in the big leagues now, maybe a 4.50 ERA, though probably a little higher. But, the Twins - and we (fans) - want him to be better than OK. He's still learning and developing. They'll move him up appropriately.

 

 

 

The only, Twins promote guys too slow thing just isn't factual at all anymore. Maybe never really was.

 

 

Uhh, if Steamer and ZIPS project FIPs of 4.31 and 4.53, respectively, and you also think that that is about what he could accomplish, then the only "appropriate" place for Berrios is in the Twins rotation. 

 

ERA-wise, that 4.50 would be second-best among all Twins 2014 starters.    And FIP-wise, he'd be close to 3rd best among 2014 SPs still on the 2015 staff.              "Factual?"    Dem's da' facts.    And some wonder why some other fans are frustrated by the promotion rate........ 

 

I can see holding off to gain the extra year of control, but if a guy is clearly the best option- then once that 7th year is attained, then promotion is the only approprate option.

[JB_Iowa]

 

As of last week, he was still in camp and said he hadn't scheduled it yet.  He was actually playing catch with a righthanders' glove.

 

He had surgery earlier this week (maybe Wedneday?)  I saw a tweet of him in his hospital bed. but I'm not sure I can find it back.

 

 

Mike Berardino ‏@MikeBerardino  · 7h7 hours ago 
Tommy John surgery on LHP Lewis Thorpe was done by Dr. John Steubs and Dr. Pearce McCarty of #MNTwins medical staff.

 

Lewis Thorpe
‏@lewisT18   Surgery went well! Let's get healthy and Back to my aelfv

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCPkA5VUMAIW86K.jpg

 

 

[Seth Stohs]

That was all Friday. I asked him if he was tweeting with his left or right hand and he said Of course with the Right.

[Bob Sacamento]

Great sounds like it was a success, I know he was going to be doing his rehab at the Spring Training Complex as he was setting up to share a room with Guyer.

[kab21]

 

Uhh, if Steamer and ZIPS project FIPs of 4.31 and 4.53, respectively, and you also think that that is about what he could accomplish, then the only "appropriate" place for Berrios is in the Twins rotation. 

 

ERA-wise, that 4.50 would be second-best among all Twins 2014 starters.    And FIP-wise, he'd be close to 3rd best among 2014 SPs still on the 2015 staff.              "Factual?"    Dem's da' facts.    And some wonder why some other fans are frustrated by the promotion rate........ 

 

I can see holding off to gain the extra year of control, but if a guy is clearly the best option- then once that 7th year is attained, then promotion is the only approprate option.

 

There is more to pitcher development and advancement than surviving in the majors.  For example in the minors you can say I want you throw 30% change ups for the next month to improve the pitch but that's not possible in the majors.  In the majors you don't have that luxury and have to use your best stuff just to survive. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

There is more to pitcher development and advancement than surviving in the majors.  For example in the minors you can say I want you throw 30% change ups for the next month to improve the pitch but that's not possible in the majors.  In the majors you don't have that luxury and have to use your best stuff just to survive. 

I suspect that angle is overplayed.  Not sure if there is definitively more benefit in throwing 30% more changeups to minor league hitters than throwing, say, 10% or whatever to major league hitters.

 

That said, I am not arguing for his promotion; just thought Seth's estimate of his present MLB performance was curious (and perhaps overly optimistic?).

[jokin]

 

There is more to pitcher development and advancement than surviving in the majors.

In the majors you...  have to use your best stuff just to survive.

 

 

To quote one of the best comedy sports movies of all-time,  The Longest Yard (the original):

 

"Winning?!?  I'm just talking about surviving..."

 

 

If the club is spinning its wheels to another inevitable 90+ loss season, as it appears will be the case here, and probably more like two seasons, I don't mind one bit that the best talent is learning on the job at the major league level- provided they're major league ready to handle the rigors- as seems to be the case here.  

 

Witness Frank Viola, who debuted at age 22, with far less minor league bona fides than Berrios has- two pretty ordinary stops, statistically speaking- in AA, and AAA.  Frank spent two pretty awful seasons learning on the job- things began working out pretty well by season three.  

 

If things begin to go bad for Berrios and needs time away for some remedial change-up duty, that's why God invented option years.

[jokin]

 

I suspect that angle is overplayed.  Not sure if there is definitively more benefit in throwing 30% more changeups to minor league hitters than throwing, say, 10% or whatever to major league hitters.

 

That said, I am not arguing for his promotion; just thought Seth's estimate of his present MLB performance was curious (and perhaps overly optimistic?).

 

The projection services tend to agree with Seth.  His velocity has spiked up, and he's proven he can throw at least 140 innings without many arm issues.  If he keeps throwing more games like his first appearance, they're going to have find bigger challenges for Berrios.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

Seems like some of these teams have begun to realize the high chances of injury to pitchers, and that some might be more prone due to build and mechanics. Seems that most of these guys peak velocity while still young.

 

Many teams are bringing up arms early, and I'm wondering if they know it's just not worth holding off service time, while you can be using them while they still are electric. You can learn in the majors what you learn at AAA or AA, and you can fail at both.

 

Berrios seems like a likely future injury in the waiting due to his stuff and size. My personal opinion in this day in age and service system, is to bring up arms the second they can can get outs in the majors, while waiting on the bats until ready. Young pitchers can be flipped after young success and let someone else deal with their decline in velicity and injuries. The A's were on to this years back already. Look at all the young pitchers showing success in the majors, without much upper level seasoning.

[kab21]

I think we need to see more than one game (or one month) before we can conclude that Berrios needs a bigger challenge.

 

I would agree with Meyer being not having much to learn in the minors but Berrios has pitched 10 games at AA/AAA.  I think other than the most elite pitching prospects it's better for them to get at least a season at that level before coming up.

[jokin]

 

I think we need to see more than one game (or one month) before we can conclude that Berrios needs a bigger challenge.

 

I would agree with Meyer being not having much to learn in the minors but Berrios has pitched 10 games at AA/AAA.  I think other than the most elite pitching prospects it's better for them to get at least a season at that level before coming up.

 

I don't think anyone disagrees with this or made any conclusions about a date-certain for his promotion.  But if he's still lights out heading towards the end of May with say, some 10 more mostly dominating starts though, a move to AAA seems warranted.  This kid has built his career on setting lofty goals and then going out and meeting and exceeding most of them.  If he keeps this up down south in the Southern League, and just as the weather is heating up up north, it would be the perfect time for Berrios to recalibrate his goals at the next level in the International League and putting in 3 warm-weather months in Rochester.  Reward the kid (like they did for him last year) and set a strong example for the rest of the prospects. 

 

If he falls back from this day forward- to a performance-level similar to his time at AA in 2014- no harm done in putting in more time in Chattanooga.  But I think this kid is going to be in that elite prospect group you referred to, and make his case for a September call-up by going through two levels this summer.

 

This would also work in the sense of incrementally increasing his workload.  He pitched 35% more innings in 2014 vs 2013.  Another 35% increase would put him right around 190 innings pitched in 2015.

[kab21]

He was in line for a midseason callup to AAA at the beginning of the season and there's no reason that he isn't now nor is there any reason that it should be accelerated.  The big thing that I disagree with is that it's in his best development interests to be in the majors now.  And while he's a good prospect I disagree that we will be viewing him in the elite/ace level of pitching prospects.

[amjgt]

Tyler Duffey deserves a promotion before Berrios

 

.... and I love Berrios 

[bird]

 

There is more to pitcher development and advancement than surviving in the majors.  For example in the minors you can say I want you throw 30% change ups for the next month to improve the pitch but that's not possible in the majors.  In the majors you don't have that luxury and have to use your best stuff just to survive. 

 

 

Good point. Chattanooga is chock full of great prospects, and Berrios is a year younger than all of them. All the FIPS and ZIPS mean absolutely nothing. The kid is right where he should be. Let him dominate and grow up a little more. He'll be in the big time spotlight soon enough.