Berardino: Pitching coach Neil Allen emphasizing the changeup

[Parker Hageman]

Interesting "Twinsight" from the Pioneer Press's Mike Berardino.

 

As we have known, the Twins new pitching coach Neil Allen is somewhat of a changeup enthusiast dating back to his days in the Rays organization. Now he's getting the Twins pitchers to increase their usage -- at least in spring training. After his first Grapefruit League start Phil Hughes told reporters that going to the change more is a point of focus this spring:

 

 

Under new Twins pitching coach Neil Allen, that process will include a renewed emphasis on the changeup, a pitch Hughes threw just 32 times last season — or 1.1 percent of his more than 3,000 offerings.

 

Back in 2012, when Hughes went 16-13 for the New York Yankees, he threw changeups a career-high 9.9 percent of the time, according to PITCHf/x data. That figure dropped to 5.8 percent in a nightmare 2013, and Hughes subsequently put his change on the same shelf as his slider (22 times in 2014).

 

 

“I talked to Neil a lot,” Hughes said. “He wanted to try and incorporate a changeup into what we’re doing out there. No better time than spring training to work on stuff like that.”

 

Here's the thing: I am of the opinion that when it comes to Hughes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The Yankees constantly tinkered with his curveball grip and delivery to the extent that he almost lost it. 

 

Hughes had plenty of success in 2014 using a fastball/cutter/curve combination against left-handed batters (the pitch he threw most of his changeups against). Obviously spring training is the time to try out new things and who doesn't need an additional pitch if they can execute it but this feels like trying to fix something that does not need it. 

 

Your thoughts?

[Halsey Hall]

Allen worked a long time this morning with Stauffer and Gibson on the mound while they were throwing in the pen.  Maybe that was what he was doing.  It had something to do with the stride. 

[ashbury]

Baseball is all about adjustments. Even a successful guy has to modify what he's doing at times. I'm fine with this kind of experimentation at this point in Spring, even for Hughes.

[jorgenswest]

Three thoughts

 

I believe you (Parker) wrote a year ago about Suzuki's love of the fastball. I wonder how that will sync with Allen.

 

Nolasco has never had an effective fastball. Moving away from a fastball emphasis in Anderson may benefit him.

 

It has been written before that Hughes loves to tinker. Let's hope Allen has seen plenty of video from last year to help keep him on track. They need to make sure he leaves spring with close to the same mindset he ended 2014. Tinkering in an early spring start is probably normal for a pitcher though.

[Brock Beauchamp]

While I'm not crazy about tinkering with Hughes, Allen seems smart enough to keep the fiddling to a minimum. Changing a successful pitch would have me a lot more concerned than trying to reincorporate a previously discarded pirch.

[nytwinsfan]

Interesting "Twinsight" from the Pioneer Press's Mike Berardino.

 

As we have known, the Twins new pitching coach Neil Allen is somewhat of a changeup enthusiast dating back to his days in the Rays organization. Now he's getting the Twins pitchers to increase their usage -- at least in spring training. After his first Grapefruit League start Phil Hughes told reporters that going to the change more is a point of focus this spring:

 

 

Here's the thing: I am of the opinion that when it comes to Hughes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The Yankees constantly tinkered with his curveball grip and delivery to the extent that he almost lost it. 

 

Hughes had plenty of success in 2014 using a fastball/cutter/curve combination against left-handed batters (the pitch he threw most of his changeups against). Obviously spring training is the time to try out new things and who doesn't need an additional pitch if they can execute it but this feels like trying to fix something that does not need it. 

 

Your thoughts?

Agreed as to Hughes, and maybe Santana too. But as to Nolasco, Gibson, Meyer, May, etc. . . .

[ashbury]

While I'm not crazy about tinkering with Hughes, Allen seems smart enough to keep the fiddling to a minimum. Changing a successful pitch would have me a lot more concerned than trying to reincorporate a previously discarded pirch.

There are so many different changeups out there, who is to say?

[nicksaviking]

Not sure I want to tinker with Hughes either. Sounds like a guy you'd want tied to Meyer though. If Allen is your organizations best change up teacher, don't you want him with the guy trying his damnedest to improve his?

 

I really don't like the notion that learning has to be done before a pitcher reaches the majors when your club is supposed to be rebuilding.

[Thrylos]

The change up is minimally evasive pitch. Exactly same motion as the fast ball shoulder, arm, wrist etc. Just the grip is different. So it is not like try to learn a slider that you got different forearm, elbow, wrist mechanics that the fastball. Just grab the ball differently and do your thing. And it is a pitch that puts minimum stress on someone's arm. Great time to get a feel for the pitch, esp. for the starters.

[Parker Hageman]

The change up is minimally evasive pitch. Exactly same motion as the fast ball shoulder, arm, wrist etc. Just the grip is different.

 

 

In theory the changeup is the "easiest" pitch to learn after the fastball but in reality it is extremely difficult for a pitcher to learn from a trust perspective. It's a feel pitch. It's difficult to master. It's why teams like the Rays and the Pirates before them have implemented quotas in the minor leagues in order to have their pitchers get that feel before they have to make the addition at the major league level.

 

The modern realities of getting on the pro scouts radar is about velocity. High school and, to a lesser extent, college kids have refined their breaking pitches to avoid metal bats while neglecting change-ups. Look at Alex Meyer. He's got the two best pitches in the system but cannot quite master the change yet. It's difficult.

 

To the point on Hughes, it's spring training, do whatever you want. Throw left-handed for all I care. But, again, I don't think Hughes needs a renew emphasis on anything at this point. Sure, get a grip and an arm action to back pocket that change but, ultimately, he doesn't need it.

 

Just a passing thought here as well but in these forums there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm for Neil Allen. Let's just say Rick Anderson was still around this season and tried to make the same statement. Would everyone react the same way as they do with Allen in charge?

[Brock Beauchamp]

Just a passing thought here as well but in these forums there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm for Neil Allen. Let's just say Rick Anderson was still around this season and tried to make the same statement. Would everyone react the same way as they do with Allen in charge?

Nope. And rightfully so, IMO. While Anderson obviously did a good job with Hughes, he burned so many bridges with his dogmatic approach to pitching that faith in his coaching was non-existent in some circles.

 

I think both you and Thrylos have a point here... The changeup is a minimally invasive pitch but it's also a feel pitch. Which, to me, makes this a good experiment. If Hughes doesn't have a feel for the pitch and doesn't trust it come April, abandon the pitch and try again this offseason. The team isn't fiddling with his mechanics to add this particular pitch and the idea can be abandoned with minimal effect on Hughes' overall pitching.

[Dantes929]

"a pitch Hughes threw just 32 times last season — or 1.1 percent of his more than 3,000 offerings.

 

Back in 2012, when Hughes went 16-13 for the New York Yankees, he threw changeups a career-high 9.9 percent of the time, according to PITCHf/x data. That figure dropped to 5.8 percent in a nightmare 2013, and Hughes subsequently put his change on the same shelf as his slider (22 times in 2014)".  

 

None of those figures lend itself to any kind of conclusion.   He threw it a lot in a petty good season.   He threw it half as much in a horrible season and he threw it barely at all in arguably his best season (his stats were pretty good in 2009).     Has his curveball taken the place of his change up?  If you throw it 1.1% of the time what is the point of throwing it at all?    What were the results of those 32 changeups?  32 strikeouts?    I would think the point of a change up is.to not throw it so much that they look for it but enough that it keeps them from getting too comfortable.  

[Dantes929]

Three thoughts

 

I believe you (Parker) wrote a year ago about Suzuki's love of the fastball. I wonder how that will sync with Allen.

 

 

All catchers love fastballs.    Easier to catch and gives the a better chance of throwing out runners.    In general I think most fans are too in love with high velocity fastballs.    I keep pointing out that the Giants staff that has won two WS are middle of the road in velocity (90.8mph,  I sometimes think people think the average is 95 or something)    and throw it less than anyone.     I am not anti fastball and high velocity.  It is important to show it often and to command it.   I am just more of a fan of "stuff" and a change up falls in that category.    I have no idea if Anderson was any good or not or had simply gotten stale but IMIO the staffs he had the last several years had neither velocity, command or stuff.

[HitInAPinch]

Phil Hughes had a good year.  The stat I like the best for pitchers is WHIP and last year was his 2nd lowest at 1.130.  And that after Rick Anderson changed his delivery [WHAT???  RICK ANDERSON DID SOMETHING RIGHT???]   

 

On the down side: 1. Last year he threw the most innings in his career, 2.  History shows that after a successful season, he has a bad year, 3.  16 BB's in 209 innings.  Can we realistically expect that again?

 

I still believe it was incredibly stupid for the Twins to extend his inning in a long ago lost year, just so Hughes could get his 16th win.   The changeup is a low stress pitch, is thrown at a slower speed that his other pitch and on a different plane.  Showing it a few times will give hitters something else to think about.

[gunnarthor]

Probably nothing to worry about in ST. Maybe Allen can teach some of the guys a different way to throw the change up so that it works for them during the season. I would doubt that practicing that would break a pitcher later.

[Paul Pleiss]

I am with Parker that I don't think you need to tinker with Hughes, but as most of you have said, it's ST, and why not add another weapon? I think HIttinApitch had it right, just gives the hitters something else to think about.

 

I don't know that Allen is the answer to what's been plaguing the Twins, but I know that Rick Anderson wasn't the solution. And at some level, any change is better than going back out there with the same team and expecting a different result.

 

I look forward to giving Neil Allen way too much credit if things go wrong. And I'll likely throw him off a cliff if things continue to go terribly wrong.

 

Who knows what kind of value a pitching coach actually adds. Probably more happens behind the scenes than we'll ever know. But if adding a pitch, or just stressing it during ST helps even a little, it's probably worth it.

 

Let's see what happens in April.