Torii is a borderline HOF candidate will he produce enough to get in?

[Brandon]

Torii currently has over 1300 RBI's in his career to go along with almost 200 SB, 331 HR, 476 2Bs and 9 GGs and 2 Silver Sluggers, 2300+ hits and 846 extra base hits. 

 

If he continues to produce he should be just over 1400RBI's at the end of the season and around 2500 hits for his career.  with hopefully 350 -355 HR over 500 2Bs (crosses the 900 total extra base hits) and maybe he gets the 7 stolen bases to get to 200 for his career. 9 Gold Gloves in the OF rank 6th all time with Griffey JR, Mays, Ichiro, Kaline, Andrew Jones and Roberto Clemente (All-time leader with 12) ahead of him. 

 

So over his career he has shown to hit for power, drive in runs, has some speed, played great defense, and is well respected. 

 

I think he would still need another season to get closer to 1500 RBIs and also to accumulate around 950 extra base hits for the discussion to get serious but do you feel he can make it to the Hall?  Also remember the ones who vote for Hall membership also love that he gives them quotes and helps makes their jobs easier.  Also remember he played a lot in the steroid era without using the stuff. What criteria would you use to judge his career for HOF candidacy?

[gunnarthor]

He won't get in but he'll get some votes. He lands in that group of "professional hitters" not in the HOF.  Constantly pretty good but never a top player.  Baines, Bernie Williams, Staub, Oliver etc. Might get into the Hall of Very Good and the Twins HOF.

[SydneyTwinsFan]

Not really close to the HOF for me. 

Durable, consistent, solid glove (great for a few years but some of those 9 GGs feel a bit gratuitous), good mix of speed and power for sure, but the fact that he has never been a serious MVP candidate in any season, only has 2 seasons with WAR >5.0 and sports a career OPS+ of 111 points to a good but not great player.

He's had a very good career, and I'm sure will have his case considered, but I can't see it myself.

[Rosterman]

Maybe the Minnesota Twins Hall of Fame.

[Sam Morley]

I've been thinking about this for a few years. Glad somebody brought it up. I think he has an outside shot.

[Pius Jefferson]

Twins Hall of Fame likely happens the first year Hunter is retired.

[jorgenswest]

He fits in somewhere around Bernie Williams who received 3.3% his first year.

[Seth Stohs]

Somewhere between Bernie Williams and Andruw Jones and others who had very, very good careers, but certainly not a Hall of Famer. Maybe even Tony Oliva level. I think he can stay on the ballot for a few years.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I don't really see the case for induction being that strong, though Jim Rice was inducted for being "fearsome" despite some mediocre (compared to other Hall of Famers) numbers.

 

I think if he led the league in some offensive categories, had some more MVP votes, played a little bit better for a little bit longer, there would be a compelling case for him, but unless he gets rejuvenated by the air in Target Field, I think he will be in that pretty good, but not quite good enough range.

 

If he can linger in the majors for another 4 years (and play on a W.S. winner), he might get the Tony Perez treatment and make it in to the Hall.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Twins Hall of Fame likely happens the first year Hunter is retired.

If he's on a fan ballot, he probably goes in right now.  

 

Otherwise, it took Radke until his 3rd year of retirement, Guardado his 4th.  And both of them had longer Twins tenures than Hunter (Hunter should pass Guardado this year, although he is very unlikely to equal Radke's 12 full seasons with the club).

 

 

I'd guess they might wait a little bit to push Hunter, for optimal marketing.

[ashbury]

When I think of guys who build up a HoF resume more due to longevity than sheer brilliance, the test I ask myself is if I would have taken my kids to a game and said, "watch this guy, he's a future hall of famer".  Circular, I know, but I can't give Torii the thumbs up.  Hall Of Very Good, as has been said of many candidates.

[Brandon]

Here's another question.  3000 Hits is considered an automatic.  How many RBI's = an automatic?  I used to think it was 1500.  I think all of the players with 1500 RBIs are either on the ballot, waiting their 5 years or are in the HOF.  Their may be an exception in the last few years due to steroids but how many RBI's does it take? 

[Brandon]

Not really close to the HOF for me. 

Durable, consistent, solid glove (great for a few years but some of those 9 GGs feel a bit gratuitous), good mix of speed and power for sure, but the fact that he has never been a serious MVP candidate in any season, only has 2 seasons with WAR >5.0 and sports a career OPS+ of 111 points to a good but not great player.

He's had a very good career, and I'm sure will have his case considered, but I can't see it myself.

I think he was 6th in MVP vote in 2002.  He was voted in 4 or 5 other votes but yeah he didn't garner tons of support there but he is accumulating stats though. 

[jokin]

Here's another question.  3000 Hits is considered an automatic.  How many RBI's = an automatic?  I used to think it was 1500.  I think all of the players with 1500 RBIs are either on the ballot, waiting their 5 years or are in the HOF.  Their may be an exception in the last few years due to steroids but how many RBI's does it take? 

 

There aren't many.  Harold Baines and Fred McGriff.  Rafael Palmeiro too, but he has the steroid taint.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Don't forget 4th all-time in RBI - Barry Bonds.

 

I'm not sure if there is a floor anymore for RBI to get automatic induction. Jeff Kent has over 1500 RBI, I don't hear many people going crazy for him to be in the HOF.

 

Gary Sheffield, Manny Ramirez, Sammy Sosa, A-Rod, Palmeiro all pass that hurdle easily, but I think they will all find it hard to meet the voters' demands.

 

Give Torii Hunter 150 more RBI and he's still got fewer than Rusty Staub, Dave Parker, Jeff Kent, Vlad Guerrero, etc.

 

Give him 200 more hits and he's short of Garret Anderson, Steve Finley, Luis Gonzalez, Steve Garvey, Julio Franco, Willie Davis, etc.

 

Give him 50 more homers and he's short of Dale Murphy, Craig Nettles, Joe Carter, Andres Galarraga, Baines, Dwight Evans, etc.

 

Give him 100 more stolen bases and he's short of Mike Cameron, Edgar Renteria, Steve Finley, Larry Bowa, and lots of other players...

 

He has had a good combo of power, speed, and until recently, defense. I think he still would have a long way to go to be HOF level.

[Brock Beauchamp]

No, for the same reason that guys like Don Mattingly, Bernie Williams, and Kent Hrbek are not in Cooperstown.

[Linus]

My original post was deleted - must have been too clever.

 

No, not a chance and not even close.

[nicksaviking]

Torii's playing in the wrong era.  He would have had a shot in the late 70's through early 90's as his counting stats look or will look an awful lot like Jim Rice, Andre Dawson and future Veteran Commitee nominees like Dale Murphy, Steve Garvey and Harold Baines.  His 9 Gold Gloves would have carried a ton more weight back then as well.  The advanced stats still paint him as a very good player, but they aren't as kind as the counting stats, advanced metrics are used quite a bit for judging players now, they're why Blyleven got in.

 

The one thing Hunter has going for him is that the BBWA votes on HOF players, and Torii has been a media darling for a long time.  Well until yesterday. 

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Baines might make it in as a veteran's committee nominee, but out of the guys listed I think that's it.

 

Dawson had a longer career, a higher peak, an MVP, a Rookie of the Year award, over 400 HR + 300 SB. Dawson was quite a bit more HOF worthy than Hunter's case.

 

Rice is a different story, though he too had an MVP award, had a higher peak than Torii, and playing in Boston didn't hurt his visibility among voters. Rice was a tough interview, and a bit of a jerk to the media, but the consensus was that he was one of the top hitters of his era.

 

Dawson and Rice had seemingly weak HOF cases compared to their OF HOF peers. I think Hunter would have to surpass them in the higher scoring environment of the 00's to make much of a case.

 

If Hunter plays after this season, there's room for a conversation, but I don't see a situation in which he gets even close to the final career numbers of Dawson. I think Hunter would probably need to play 4 more seasons at minimum to make a compelling case for Cooperstown.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Here's another question.  3000 Hits is considered an automatic.  How many RBI's = an automatic?  I used to think it was 1500.  I think all of the players with 1500 RBIs are either on the ballot, waiting their 5 years or are in the HOF.  Their may be an exception in the last few years due to steroids but how many RBI's does it take? 

I don't know about y'all, but I have no clue about career RBI totals, and I don't think I am alone.  I doubt any level of career RBIs would, by itself, merit HOF induction.

[Otto von Ballpark]

If Hunter plays after this season, there's room for a conversation, but I don't see a situation in which he gets even close to the final career numbers of Dawson. I think Hunter would probably need to play 4 more seasons at minimum to make a compelling case for Cooperstown.

And at that point, it might be more of a "freak of nature for his age" case like Jamie Moyer.

[nicksaviking]

I don't know about y'all, but I have no clue about career RBI totals, and I don't think I am alone.  I doubt any level of career RBIs would, by itself, merit HOF induction.

 

What about 1,000,000?

[Otto von Ballpark]

What about 1,000,000?

I'd say no to a HOF case based on an accounting glitch.  

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Voters would assume PED use and not vote for the guy...

[tobi0040]

Baines might make it in as a veteran's committee nominee, but out of the guys listed I think that's it.

 

Dawson had a longer career, a higher peak, an MVP, a Rookie of the Year award, over 400 HR + 300 SB. Dawson was quite a bit more HOF worthy than Hunter's case.

 

Rice is a different story, though he too had an MVP award, had a higher peak than Torii, and playing in Boston didn't hurt his visibility among voters. Rice was a tough interview, and a bit of a jerk to the media, but the consensus was that he was one of the top hitters of his era.

 

Dawson and Rice had seemingly weak HOF cases compared to their OF HOF peers. I think Hunter would have to surpass them in the higher scoring environment of the 00's to make much of a case.

 

If Hunter plays after this season, there's room for a conversation, but I don't see a situation in which he gets even close to the final career numbers of Dawson. I think Hunter would probably need to play 4 more seasons at minimum to make a compelling case for Cooperstown.

 

Yeah, he gets on the ballot.  Eddie Guardado made the ballot. I am guessing he gets a few votes from the "he meants a lot to baseball in MN, they were almost contracted", etc. crowd.   But the numbers are nowhere near close.

 

Baines has a career OPS + of 121 with a .289 avg,  2,850 hits. 388 HR,  and over 1,000 BB's.  His highest vote total was 6.1%.

 

Torii has a career OPS + of 111, .279 avg, 2,327 hits. 331 HR, and 626 BB's.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Baines is a pretty bad comp to Hunter.

 

Baines spent most of his career playing as a DH and was a poor fielder before that point. Hunter was considered the best fielder in MLB at an up-the-middle position during his prime seasons.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Baines is a pretty bad comp to Hunter.

 

Baines spent most of his career playing as a DH and was a poor fielder before that point. Hunter was considered the best fielder in MLB at an up-the-middle position during his prime seasons.

yes - Baines would have a much stronger HOF case if he put up his numbers while also playing in the field. Same issue with Edgar Martinez. Molitor was a hard sell for some given the time he spent as a DH, but he had the magical 3,000 hits without the PED association that will keep Palmeiro out indefnitely.

 

Dawson had more time in the OF (including his prime years in CF). I think Steve Finley is probably a closer comp to Torii, though Torii had a bit more HR power.

[Brock Beauchamp]

yes - Baines would have a much stronger HOF case if he put up his numbers while also playing in the field. Same issue with Edgar Martinez. Molitor was a hard sell for some given the time he spent as a DH, but he had the magical 3,000 hits without the PED association that will keep Palmeiro out indefnitely.

 

Dawson had more time in the OF (including his prime years in CF). I think Steve Finley is probably a closer comp to Torii, though Torii had a bit more HR power.

Dawson is at least a notch above Hunter, maybe more. I'm sure voters gave some sympathy votes to Dawson for his injuries that transformed him from being a great player to merely a good player. Dawson was a borderline candidate without injury consideration, nearly a lock if you factor in untimely injury that drastically changed his career as one of the best all-around players in the game.

 

Finley is a pretty good comp. He wasn't quite as good as Hunter in a few ways but overall, one of the more similar career arcs you'll find, I think.

[Brock Beauchamp]

yes - Baines would have a much stronger HOF case if he put up his numbers while also playing in the field. Same issue with Edgar Martinez. Molitor was a hard sell for some given the time he spent as a DH, but he had the magical 3,000 hits without the PED association that will keep Palmeiro out indefnitely.

Not to mention that Paul was simply a better player for longer than Baines... Hard to gauge a comparison to Palmeiro due to him sticking a needle in his ass.

 

As for Martinez, he should have been in the majors much sooner than he was and he's unfairly kept out of the HoF because of it. The dude flat out raked. A career 147 OPS+ and .411 OBP? Oh, come on. Put him in already.

 

For comparison, Frank Thomas has a 156 OPS+ and a .419 OBP and there's absolutely no question from anyone sane whether he should be in Cooperstown.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I just looked it up in case I was remembering it incorrectly.

 

Edgar Martinez played 266 games in AAA (WHA?!?!?!) with an OPS of ~.950.

 

*shakes head*