Torii is a borderline HOF candidate will he produce enough to get in?

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Agree on all points - If Edgar doesn't make it in via the sportswriter's votes, I think the veteran's committee will elect him when the time comes. Right now the ballot is so crowded, it will be hard for some deserving candidates to stay on the ballot. A person could vote for the maximum 10 candidates, omit the guys that admitted or tested positive for PEDs, and still have Edgar Martinez on the outside looking in. I'm hoping this year at least 4 players are inducted, if nothing else to make room for some other guys to get votes.

 

I think Biggio, Pedro, Randy Johnson are pretty much locks to get in this year. There are plenty of other guys already on the ballot that deserve it, too.

[Linus]

I just looked it up in case I was remembering it incorrectly.

 

Edgar Martinez played 266 games in AAA (WHA?!?!?!) with an OPS of ~.950.

 

*shakes head*

And people think the Twins promote slowly.......

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Edgar was blocked by Jim Presley at 3rd (a guy that was a 24 yr old All-Star in 1986, decent in 87 and 88), Alvin Davis at 1st, and Ken Phelps at DH. I wouldn't call the Mariners stacked at Corner infield at the time, but they already had relatively productive options at each position. Trading Phelps to NY to get Buhner also helped clear the logjam for Edgar. And Jim Presley fell off pretty sharply starting in 89, which helped get Edgar in the lineup regularly.

[Brandon]

Jeff Bagwell who I think is still on the ballet and Baines are the only ones who may not end up in the Hall with over 1525 RBIs.  Delgado and Jeff Kent are the only other ones over 1500 not in.  Granted Griffey, Sosa and others from the steroid era are not in either but most will be.  The ones that won't is more because of the steroids.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/RBI_career.shtml

 

If Torii plays next year his hitting stats will be very similar to Jeff Kent.  Torii will have more hits over 2500 to 2461.  HR will be close as Kent has 377 to I estimate 370 for Torii.  Kent has an MVP award and Hunter has 9 GG.  Torii will have 200 SB to Kent's 96.  and the RBI's will be similar but Hunter will have fewer RBI's.  But Kent had a bad relationship with the Media while Hunter has a good one. 

 

McGriff had 1550 RBI and didn't make the HOF either.  Kent and McGriff are also below 1000 career extra base hits which I consider a bench mark for sluggers. 

 

So I think right now he is not a Hall of Famer.  He needs 2 more seasons to make this a serious discussion but I think he ultimately needs more than 1525 RBI's, 1000 extra base hits to go with his 9 gold gloves.  2 more seasons gets his hits total over 2500 maybe 2550ish.  a 3rd season gets him to 2700.  I think 3 seasons even if he is not that good in the third one gets him in. 

[tobi0040]

Jeff Bagwell who I think is still on the ballet and Baines are the only ones who may not end up in the Hall with over 1525 RBIs.  Delgado and Jeff Kent are the only other ones over 1500 not in.  Granted Griffey, Sosa and others from the steroid era are not in either but most will be.  The ones that won't is more because of the steroids.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/RBI_career.shtml

 

If Torii plays next year his hitting stats will be very similar to Jeff Kent.  Torii will have more hits over 2500 to 2461.  HR will be close as Kent has 377 to I estimate 370 for Torii.  Kent has an MVP award and Hunter has 9 GG.  Torii will have 200 SB to Kent's 96.  and the RBI's will be similar but Hunter will have fewer RBI's.  But Kent had a bad relationship with the Media while Hunter has a good one. 

 

McGriff had 1550 RBI and didn't make the HOF either.  Kent and McGriff are also below 1000 career extra base hits which I consider a bench mark for sluggers. 

 

So I think right now he is not a Hall of Famer.  He needs 2 more seasons to make this a serious discussion but I think he ultimately needs more than 1525 RBI's, 1000 extra base hits to go with his 9 gold gloves.  2 more seasons gets his hits total over 2500 maybe 2550ish.  a 3rd season gets him to 2700.  I think 3 seasons even if he is not that good in the third one gets him in. 

 

I think you are focusing on the tally stats a little too much.    But Kent had a career OPS of .855 and OPS + of 123 versus Hunters .799 and 111.  Guessing two additional years makes the non-tally stats look worse.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Hunter could reach Kent-like offensive numbers, but I don't think that will be enough for him to be inducted. Hunter I think would have to be better than Kent and closer to some of the CF'ers in the HOF:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_CF.shtml

 

if he can rack up another 5-10 WAR and get his career OPS+ up 5-10 points, I think he's right up there with the current CF'ers in the Hall - but that's a pretty tall order.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I just looked it up in case I was remembering it incorrectly.

 

Edgar Martinez played 266 games in AAA (WHA?!?!?!) with an OPS of ~.950.

 

*shakes head*

To be fair, he was a bit of a late bloomer.  He had great BB and K rates but otherwise didn't look like a great hitter until he hit AAA in 1987, and in the PCL at the time, his .907 OPS that year wasn't that outstanding -- his whole team had an OPS over .800.

 

After a cup of coffee, they had him go back to AAA the next year, and he got even better -- legitimately standing out in his league, although it appears he missed a little time due to injury?  Could have prevented him from breaking into MLB much that year beyond another cup of coffee.

 

Finally, in 1989, he was in MLB virtually the whole season, mostly as a little-used backup 3B but he did get stretches to start in April and June.  He just played very poorly and/or was injured, and did a little stint in AAA in August.

 

1990, of course, he hit the ground running.

 

Hard to say with the injuries, but perhaps he should gotten more MLB adjustment AB in 1988, and thus been more productive for a full season in 1989.  So probably a season''s bonus, using his early career rate stats?  4-5 WAR?  I don't think that's holding back his HOF case as much as the DH thing and the general steroid era effect.

[scottz]

Hunter has had a nice career, but I don't see the HOF. I don't see him ever getting more than 15% on a ballot. He's Steve Finley. A nice career and a good guy to have on your team, especially in his prime. But he's not HOF.

[kab21]

It's taken this many seasons to rack up 42 WAR.  Even if you don't like WAR that seems to agree that he was good for a long time but not great. 

 

Plus there are going to be way too many players on the ballot (unless changes happen) for a guy like Hunter to gain support.  Jim Edmonds will be on the ballot in a couple of years and he has better stats in CF.

[USAFChief]

What about 1,000,000?

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BOTU1NzEyNjE1NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNDQzMDc3._V1_SX100_CR0,0,100,100_AL_.jpg

[ashbury]

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BOTU1NzEyNjE1NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNDQzMDc3._V1_SX100_CR0,0,100,100_AL_.jpg

Don't you think we should ask for *more* than a million RBI? A million RBI isn't exactly a lot of run production these days. Miggy alone makes over 9 billion RBI a year!

[Thrylos]

"I wouldn't play in Minnesota unless my career was at an end and I had to go to Minnesota to play the game"

 

Does not deserve Twins HOF.

[tobi0040]

"I wouldn't play in Minnesota unless my career was at an end and I had to go to Minnesota to play the game"

 

Does not deserve Twins HOF.

 

We say that now, but the 2015 and 2016 Twins will be better and the non Beradino reporters will stick a microphone in everyones face and ask "how much of a mentor was Torii Hunter?"

 

He was great, he changed the culture here and helped me with x, y, and z

[tobi0040]

Hunter could reach Kent-like offensive numbers, but I don't think that will be enough for him to be inducted. Hunter I think would have to be better than Kent and closer to some of the CF'ers in the HOF:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_CF.shtml

 

if he can rack up another 5-10 WAR and get his career OPS+ up 5-10 points, I think he's right up there with the current CF'ers in the Hall - but that's a pretty tall order.

 

I am guessing after 2,100 games played, he would have to end on a really, really high note the last year or two to move his OPS + up 5 or 10 points. 

[Thrylos]

We say that now, but the 2015 and 2016 Twins will be better and the non Beradino reporters will stick a microphone in everyones face and ask "how much of a mentor was Torii Hunter?"

 

He was great, he changed the culture here and helped me with x, y, and z

 

I'll shut up if the Twins win 90 in 2015 and 2016

[tobi0040]

I'll shut up if the Twins win 90 in 2015 and 2016

 

90 seems a tad optimistic!  But Meyer comes up and lights things up, Sano and Burdi provide a shot in the arm and Nolasco returns to the 4.30 guy he has always been.....

 

You and I know Torii Hunter will get all the credit. And Molitor, for the wisdom of bringing Torii in.