Veteran OF

[davidc3915]

It appears that Torii Hunter will be signing elsewhere, likely the Rangers.  I'm assuming nobody reading this post will be losing any sleep over this news.  If the Twins are adamant on signing a veteran outfielder to provide leadership and mentoring to the young players, I wonder if that leadership must be verbal, or can it be the "lead by example, hard work and dedication to the craft" kind of leadership?  Can it be a player who is going to provide adequate defense, hit for average, and be a positive role model for these developing players? 

 

If so, how about Ichiro?  I realize that this suggestion is probably crazy, but personally I'd rather have Ichiro than Torii.  Thoughts?

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Can/would Ichiro play LF? I don't know if his body is up to being a full-time starter anymore. I agree that out of those two, I would vote for Ichiro over Torii. 

 

Hmmm.... veterans....

 

Eric Young, Jr. might be non-tendered by the Mets, not really interested in the Twins going after him. 

 

Maybe the Twins would trade for Marlon Byrd or Shane Victorino, but those guys don't really inspire much confidence either, especially since neither one is cheap, and both have had recent injury woes.

 

Colby Rasmus, Melky Cabrera, Nori Aoki, Nick Markakis, Alex Rios, Chris Denorfia, Emilio Bonifacio, Delmon Young, Mike Morse, Jonny Gomes, Nate Schierholtz, Nyjer Morgan, Endy Chavez, Tony Gwynn Jr, Scott Hairston are all free agents. 

[nicksaviking]

These days the word veteran gives me a bit of nasuea.  It shouldn't but it does.  I want no one with a qualifying offer and I want no one that would be considered a platoon partner for HIcks or Schafer.  I also want no one that requires more than a one year deal, though I'd probably settle for an option year. I guess Rios still might have some upside, he had a down year, but his career has been a bunch of ups and downs. 

 

As a guy who loves baseball history, I guess I wouldn't be too opposed to seeing if Ichiro could get to 3,000 hits in a Twins uniform, though I'd like to think he could get on base better than he did with the Yankees.  It seemed really strange that he lost the ability to walk when he wore pinstripes, that's generally something the Yankees encourage, and pitch selection is often something that doesn't diminsh with age.

[Brandon]

I would prefer the Twins sign Hunter.  All the front office has to do is increase their offer and Hunter can change is mind.  If we sign Ichiro which I wouldn't be against as a back up/ platoon.  I wouldn't want to see him get a ton of AB.  It would almost be like giving up on the season if he is their choice though.  It would feel like the Corriea signing.  a useful player but we want someone who has more of an impact on the game. 

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I dunno about forgetting how to draw walks - he's only averaged about 40 walks a season. It seems like his problem is that he's not getting contact like he used to - his K% spiked to almost 18% last season, his extra base hit % was down, his balls in play percentage was a career low. Looks a little like Mauer's 2014 decline year.  

 

At 41 years old, I don't see Ichiro having a bounceback year - it's more likely that he's going to be even worse, so it's really just the P.R. of reaching 3,000 MLB hits at stake. He's currently got 4,122 professional hits (including his years in Japan), so he's only a little more than one bad season away from passing Pete Rose (not that anyone would really count those combined stats over here) for most professional hits all time. 

 

The Twins should look elswhere than Ichiro or Hunter for their OF needs.

[minnesota transplant]

Is Nick Markakis to spendy for the Twins?

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

He's going to want 4-5 years, probably $12-15 Million per year... not sure if that's out of the Twins' budget or not. It's probably more years than they want to invest in a free agent.

[laloesch]

It appears that Torii Hunter will be signing elsewhere, likely the Rangers.  I'm assuming nobody reading this post will be losing any sleep over this news.  If the Twins are adamant on signing a veteran outfielder to provide leadership and mentoring to the young players, I wonder if that leadership must be verbal, or can it be the "lead by example, hard work and dedication to the craft" kind of leadership?  Can it be a player who is going to provide adequate defense, hit for average, and be a positive role model for these developing players? 

 

If so, how about Ichiro?  I realize that this suggestion is probably crazy, but personally I'd rather have Ichiro than Torii.  Thoughts?

 

 

Yawn.  Torii Hunter is all talk.  Always has been.  He says he favors the Twins in free agency and turns around and signs a deal somewhere else.  Sound familiar?

 

He did the same thing in 2007, turning down a VERY respectable deal from the Twins (3 years, 45 million dollars), in favor of the Angels (5 years, 90 million), which was at the time an insanely stupid contract for a guy sporting a career .334 OBP and lifetime .274 batting average.  His best years were 2006 & 2007 with Minnesota when he hit 32 & 28 HR's with 98 & 107 RBI's.  

 

He has a LONG infamous history of saying controversial inflammatory stuff, including racially charged rants about blacks from the Dominican republic and latinos.  Also, don't forget about his thoughts and insights on playing with openly gay players in the clubhouse.   I think it's safe to say that he's a very blunt personality,   probably an understatement. 

 

Some may call this guy a fearless clubhouse leader ready to speak his mind, others a trash talking clubhouse cancer.  You be the judge on that one, but I for one will be glad to see him sign elsewhere.  

[JB_Iowa]

No.

 

No to Ichiro.  No to Toriii,

 

Just No.  No more retreads,  No more over-the-hill,

[Willihammer]

I'd be fine with a 1 year deal for Hunter. He had a decent year, healthy. Trade him to a contender if/when the team falls out of contention like with Morales, or if Rosario or Sano forces the issue.

[TheDean]

I think I agree with most of you. Ichiro would be neat from the baseball history perspective, but he's heavily decline phase.

 

That said, he shouldn't be expensive, and would likely only need 1 year, right? As an aging veteran who isn't going to start every day, there would definitely be room for Hicks and Schafer to get their ABs too.

He's only played 356 innings in LF, but they've all come with the Yanks, so at least it's recent practice.

 

He grades out as a league average OF still in UZR. Someone who regularly watches the Yankees (bless your soul) would have to tell me if that matches the eye test or not.

 

Hard to get excited about veteran signings, but then again, young exciting players want more than 1 year and they certainly want more each year than what the Twins want to pay.  If I have to choose between the "Clete Thomas/Kubel/Colabello/Parmelee outfield adventures of sub .700 OPS and terrible defense" and a Torii/Ichiro option, I know which one I'd pick.

 

If I had it my way, yeah, we pick up Rasmus or Melky or even Aoki, but I'm going to grade out the chances of those at "doubtful."

[tobi0040]

He did the same thing in 2007, turning down a VERY respectable deal from the Twins (3 years, 45 million dollars), in favor of the Angels (5 years, 90 million), which was at the time an insanely stupid contract for a guy sporting a career .334 OBP and lifetime .274 batting average.  His best years were 2006 & 2007 with Minnesota when he hit 32 & 28 HR's with 98 & 107 RBI's.  

 

I can't fault anyone for taking $90M over $45M.  I suppose the AAV was not much different.  But these are guaranteed deals and you can never assume a 32 year old will be able to play in four years.

 

I don't want the 39-40 year old version.

[jokin]

I can't fault anyone for taking $90M over $45M.  I suppose the AAV was not much different.  But these are guaranteed deals and you can never assume a 32 year old will be able to play in four years.

 

I don't want the 39-40 year old version.

 

Apparently, the Twins want both the 39-40 version, and the 40-41 version.    

 

Tell me this is all for show and they've got a secret killer one-year deal for Rios in their back pocket .

[DocBauer]

Speaking only of LF for the moment, no to Ichiro. I think he can still play on a part time/role basis. The bat is slowing, the power he did have seems to have almost disappeared.

 

I am and have been with Jokin here. If not Cabrerra, then Rios. There are no injury reports I'm aware of, he still runs well, has a RF arm, is still young enough at 33 for another bounce back season, wouldn't be overly expensive, has no compensation attached, and should be had on a 1-year deal.

 

He provides a RH bat that we could use, and as stated before, if we could get a career average season, it would be solid all around production, and far more than we got from LF last season.

[tobi0040]

Apparently, the Twins want both the 39-40 version, and the 40-41 version.    

 

Tell me this is all for show and they've got a secret killer one-year deal for Rios in their back pocket .

 

Please tell me we are not linked to Torii on a two year deal.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

That's the rumor - Twins offered a contract already, I haven't seen any concrete number listed anywhere that it was two years.

 

http://www.lonestarball.com/2014/12/2/7320261/texas-rangers-rumors-torii-hunter-rumors-continue-to-swirl

 

Rangers Fans and Twins Fans seem to be hoping that the other team takes Torii at this point...

[Rosterman]

Torii will be all about the money, and possibly playoff contention. His best bet would be a one year deal with Kansas City. Looking around the marketplace, it seems he could ask for $10 million a year and, heaven forbid, even put out feelers for $20 million for two years, which someone just might bite at. 

 

He wants to play, but would settle for designated hitter at bats, so that pretty much leaves the National League out of the picture. 

 

I don't see him signing anywhere for $4-6 million .But, I could be wrong!

[JustinCB]

Is Nick Markakis to spendy for the Twins?

 

 

From Gleeman on Twitter today:

 

Nick Markakis, 2012-2014: .279 AVG, .342 OBP, .396 SLG

Norichika Aoki, 2012-2014: .287 AVG, .353 OBP, .387 SLG

 

https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/539845959581454336

[h2oface]

I sure hope the Twins pass on Torii now.  I always liked Hunter, but had to ignore several of his personal opinions about things not baseball.  The offense was fine last year.  Pitching and defense is were all focus should go. Hunter is neither.

[tobi0040]

Looks like Goin either does not believe in defensive metrics, or has no influence:

 

There was no talk of Hunter’s plummeting defensive metrics: minus-28 combined defensive runs saved over his past two seasons in Detroit. That’s dead last out of 51 right fielders with at least 500 innings out there in that span.
 

I’ve been told the Twins aren’t too worried about those numbers. They believe Hunter, who has kept himself in excellent condition, still moves around more than well enough to field his position.

 

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2014/11/26/twinsights-terry-ryan-torii-hunters-leadership-production/

[Major League Ready]

A one year deal on RIOS would be nice but it probably takes a two year deal.

[nicksaviking]

 

He did the same thing in 2007, turning down a VERY respectable deal from the Twins (3 years, 45 million dollars), in favor of the Angels (5 years, 90 million), which was at the time an insanely stupid contract for a guy sporting a career .334 OBP and lifetime .274 batting average.  His best years were 2006 & 2007 with Minnesota when he hit 32 & 28 HR's with 98 & 107 RBI's.  

 

 

This is getting really old.  You make it sound like everybody but Hunter would have turned down the Angels offer because everyone else would refuse to be overpaid.  The contracts you list have the Angels offering both more years AND a higher annual salary. Not sure how many people would actually turn down a 100% pay increase to perform the same job they were currently doing.

 

Most statistical evaluations would also say Hunter had his two best seasons in 2009 and 2012 though none of thos metrics used would be based on RBI.

 

Also, the Twins never made Hunter an offer.

[nicksaviking]

Looks like Goin either does not believe in defensive metrics, or has no influence:

 

There was no talk of Hunter’s plummeting defensive metrics: minus-28 combined defensive runs saved over his past two seasons in Detroit. That’s dead last out of 51 right fielders with at least 500 innings out there in that span.

 

I’ve been told the Twins aren’t too worried about those numbers. They believe Hunter, who has kept himself in excellent condition, still moves around more than well enough to field his position.

 

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2014/11/26/twinsights-terry-ryan-torii-hunters-leadership-production/

 

Well that's fine by me, as I've stated before that range in TF seems to be much less important than playing the wall and not taking bad angles, things a veteran should be fine at.

 

I'm not endorsing Hunter, just agreeing that defensive metrics seem flawed when applied to rightfield at TF; it's simply a different job than playing RF at the much more spacious Comerica Park.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Ah, but the Twins already have a bad RF (who is younger and cheaper and could maybe possibly be better in the future we hope!), they need someone to play the more spacious LF.

[tobi0040]

 

Ah, but the Twins already have a bad RF (who is younger and cheaper and could maybe possibly be better in the future we hope!), they need someone to play the more spacious LF.

 

 

Yeah, that is the issue. Arcia or Hunter would have to play left. Neither are close to average.

[nicksaviking]

Ah, but the Twins already have a bad RF (who is younger and cheaper and could maybe possibly be better in the future we hope!), they need someone to play the more spacious LF.

 

Yes, I'd prefer they stick with Arcia, though I think he's more of a liablilty in RF because of the bad angels he takes and his confusion with the wall.

 

I'm not big on defensive metrics, but looking at UZR, almost all of Hunter's terrible UZR was made up of the Range component at -18.4 where as Arcia's Range contributed only -4.4 to his subpar UZR.  If all things stay relatively similar in the OF, I'd prefer Arcia in LF where his borderline adaquate range won't hurt as bad as his mental screwups with the unorthodoxed RF. 

 

In other words, if we want to keep Arcia in the lineup (and I do) I think the OF would be better improved by moving him to LF and simply finding a capable RF that doesn't lose his mind on line drives than keeping Arcia in RF and finding a rangy LF.

[Kwak]

Yawn.  Torii Hunter is all talk.  Always has been.  He says he favors the Twins in free agency and turns around and signs a deal somewhere else.  Sound familiar?

 

He did the same thing in 2007, turning down a VERY respectable deal from the Twins (3 years, 45 million dollars), in favor of the Angels (5 years, 90 million), which was at the time an insanely stupid contract for a guy sporting a career .334 OBP and lifetime .274 batting average. 

"Insanely stupid contract"...

Accepting a "Twins Friendly" contract rather than the Angels offer--would have been "Insanely Stupid".

Tossing aside that 3yrs and $45MM by itself is stupid money--the Angels were (and still are) a stronger, more vibrant, and better franchise than the Twins.  An equal time/money offer with the ANgels would have been a better offer than the Twins.  But, of course, the Twins weren't the only competitor to  the Angels for Hunter's services--else their offer would have been substantially less the the actual offer.  The Twins simply threw out a low-ball offer for CYA purposes.  Teams and players must "Say Good-Bye" sometime and sadly that time was after the 2006 season.  Ryan misjudged and picked-up the option year on Hunter's contract--and kept him in 2007--the rest is history.