Santana in CF?

[Physics Guy]

I saw this headline and felt my head about to explode:

 

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/277295971.html

 

I'm really surprised nobody commented on this.  I just don't understand why you would waste a kid who has a chance to at least be average defensively at SS, potentially above average.  I'm still mysitfied why he hasn't played more at SS in September.  Jordan Schaefer is servicable in CF and Hicks has been better since his recall.  We really don't know if Santana can be a full-time SS, but we should have had a better idea after September.  Escobar could be an acceptable option, but he really strikes me as more of a Punto type.  He would be an excellent utility guy and passable starter for short periods.  I still believe in Santan at SS more than Escobar.  Santana finished at .828 OPS.  Even a regression towards .750 makes him a significant improvement from Escobar. 

 

It's probably not fair to Escobar, but I like the upside of a Santana at SS and Hicks/Schaefer in CF vs Escobar SS and Santana CF.  I think the upside is greater both offensively and defensively.  I also think having Escobar as your utility IF vs Nunez makes the team stronger.  The other reason is that Santana playing CF is merely a stopgap (Buxton) and inhibits his development as a SS.  As much as Santana has helped stabilize CF this year, I will not be happy if he is out there regularly in 2015.

[bird]

I find the concept of "wasting" Santana perplexing. You and I don't know if he can be a long term solution at SS, but the Twins already have a very good idea. Playing both Escobar and Santana, and in the process getting strong defensive and offensive results at two positions, has been very smart. It may be that this arrangement is the best alternative until Buxton makes his entrance. Why is anyone so sure that this significantly inhibits Santana's development? His incredible improvement in CF suggests he's very quick to adapt. Until Buxton is ready, or Escobar slumps big time, I'm all for seeing Santana in CF. Let Hicks and Shaefer fight it out for 4th OF (hopefully).

[Kwak]

I read that article too--and shook my head!  Evidence of Gardenhire management.  Just in Sunday's game Hicks made a catch (Cabrera) that Santana wouldn't--Hicks is an OF and Santana isn't an OF.  Santana doesn't belong the CF--but he does belong in the line-up.

[stringer bell]

Escobar proved to be a revelation this year.  Among AL shortstops with 450 PAs, he finished second in OPS.  His defense was solid at shortstop.  A couple of caveats--Escobar only played 98 games at short and only had 465 plate appearances, not quite full-time.  Having Escobar as a utility guy would be a bit problematic.  His best position is shortstop and he had much better platoon splits as a RH hitter.  He wouldn't get many starts from his strong side at second or third.  I suppose he could start several games at short vs. a left hander.  The second part of this conundrum is Santana.  Is he going to remain a .300 hitter despite fanning almost a quarter of the time?  Can he play an adequate major league shortstop on a daily basis?  Do the Twins have anyone who could be an every day center fielder beyond Santana?  While this thread is titled "Santana is CF?", it really should be "Santana in CF and Escobar at SS vs. Santana at SS and ????? in CF"

 

Also remember, that Escobar is still a young guy.  He is only 25. 

[Physics Guy]

I find the concept of "wasting" Santana perplexing. You and I don't know if he can be a long term solution at SS, but the Twins already have a very good idea. Playing both Escobar and Santana, and in the process getting strong defensive and offensive results at two positions, has been very smart. It may be that this arrangement is the best alternative until Buxton makes his entrance. Why is anyone so sure that this significantly inhibits Santana's development? His incredible improvement in CF suggests he's very quick to adapt. Until Buxton is ready, or Escobar slumps big time, I'm all for seeing Santana in CF. Let Hicks and Shaefer fight it out for 4th OF (hopefully).

Strong defensive results is questionable.  I understand the need to play Santana in CF for a good part of the season, just think we should be looking forward in September.  Santana is acutally a below average option in CF defensively, he was just the best option for a good chunk of the year. 

 

Again I would argue that Hicks/Schaefer in CF (platoon?) along with Santana at SS is equal or better production and leaves us Escobar as utility IF instead of Nunez.  Escobar can play 3B, SS and 2B.  If you want to throw Santana out in the OF to give Escobar a start at SS on occasion I would be fine with that. 

[kab21]

Santana is a raw, toolsy defender at both positions.  If he's going to play consistently good defense at either position then he needs to get as many reps as possible at his long term position.  Playing CF didn't affect his long term defense at SS but he needs to be a SS in winter ball and spring training.

[Physics Guy]

Santana is a raw, toolsy defender at both positions.  If he's going to play consistently good defense at either position then he needs to get as many reps as possible at his long term position.  Playing CF didn't affect his long term defense at SS but he needs to be a SS in winter ball and spring training.

I would argue that it affected the time it will take to reach his potential as a SS.  The sooner he gets there the better.  Again, I understand why they did it, but it needs to stop unless they absoultely don't have an option in CF next year.  Agree completely with the end of your last sentence.

[Riverbrian]

Escobar was also pretty good... I won't assume regression.

 

I have no problem with both of these guys in the starting lineup in 2015.

[kab21]

I would argue that it affected the time it will take to reach his potential as a SS.  The sooner he gets there the better.  Again, I understand why they did it, but it needs to stop unless they absoultely don't have an option in CF next year.  Agree completely with the end of your last sentence.

 

I don't think 70 games did much to affect the time to reach his short term potential at SS.  He played winter ball and spring training at SS and probably had about 50 games at SS in AAA/MLB this year.  One big benefit is that he got MLB playing time and the pressure will be off of him to hit next year and he can concentrate on defense (assuming he plays SS).

[chopper0080]

This seems short-sighted to me, but par for the course for the Twins.  IMO, I can find serviceable CFs easier than SSs long term.

 

Honestly, tough for me to be shocked by any decision from the franchise that will likely keep a manager who has lost 90+ games, four seasons in a row.

[USAFChief]

I think you install Santana at SS and never look back.

 

But what really bothers me is the manager having no clue what he thinks is best for the organization. "Play it by ear in spring training"? Isn't that just another example of the lack of foresight too often displayed?

[Monkeypaws]

This thread is pretty unfair to Escobar. He was more than all right this season.

 

I also didn't realize until recently that Santana has been playing some outfield all the way up through the minors, so this isn't some Gardy fetish. 

 

If the Twins put their best lineup out there, for the last few months, it's Santana in CF and Escobar at short.

[Paul Pleiss]

Is SanDana a SS, a MLB caliber SS? I'm not so sure he is. I agree the Twins should have been giving him chances in September, but giving him the job going into next season seems like a bad idea. Maybe the Twins have seen enough with their own eyes and don't think Sandana can hack it at SS. Maybe they know something we dont. Maybe.

 

As long as his bat stays hot, find a way to keep him in the lineup. If putting him at CF is the best way to get him in the lineup for now, then keep it up. He needs to work on his K rate and walk rate this off-season. He's CANT continue to find success if he strikes out that much long term.

[twinsnorth49]

I just don't see the justification to bump Escobar out of the lineup regularly right now. The team is strongest with both Escobar and Santana in the lineup, keep them both there until Buxton pushes the issue and forces a decision at SS.

[Paul Pleiss]

I just don't see the justification to bump Escobar out of the lineup regularly right now. The team is strongest with both Escobar and Santana in the lineup, keep them both there until Buxton pushes the issue and forces a decision at SS.

Buxton missed almost all of 2013 and has yet to play a full game at AA. I know we all want him up with the Twins sooner than later, but he has a lot left to prove, and we may not see him in Minnesota until September 2015, which i think is pretty reasonable, all things considered. Keep SanDana as a flex player, with Eddie400 manning SS on the regular.

[Mike Sixel]

TR himself said he sees Santana a SS long term....In a lost season, you should, I don't know, play for next year to be better? Santana should have been at SS all September long. I don't know how anyone can argue not playing SS, getting reps, learning more, giving the Twins more data on him as a SS, I don't know how anyone can argue that did not increase the time for him to be a full time SS.

 

In an otherwise great year around Santana, this part if a bit perplexing to me.

 

Buxton is not on this roster for at least 3 months, if not another season. He has less than 1 game at AA, and was hurt all year.

[laloesch]

Buxton missed almost all of 2013 and has yet to play a full game at AA. I know we all want him up with the Twins sooner than later, but he has a lot left to prove, and we may not see him in Minnesota until September 2015, which i think is pretty reasonable, all things considered. Keep SanDana as a flex player, with Eddie400 manning SS on the regular.

 

I think September 2015 is pretty aggressive even for Buxton.  I think its more likely that we see him in 2016 at this rate.  Too many injuries in 2014.