Article: Pinto Needs to Play

[Seth Stohs]

Just to clarify:

 

1.) I'm not saying I agree with the need for a 3rd catcher (I don't). But like I said, it is the reality, and I'd rather have Pinto in the lineup every day, even if that means a third catcher.

2.) Chris Herrmann is just fine as a 5th OF, 3rd catcher. he would be a backup about 10 out of 11 games, and he might come in to catch or play outfield an inning or two at a time. The fact that he had to play every day due to all the injuries is not the scenario going forward.

3.) I'm not saying Gardy is or isn't the right guy going forward. I do think that he's only able to manage the players on his roster.

4.) I don't think Pinto is very good defensively at all, so I am fine with him catching just twice a week (in a 6-game week) and DHing three times a week. I would be happy with that. With Suzuki catching four out of six games.

[Riverbrian]

I do not believe for a second that Joe Mauer has forgotten how to play Catcher!!! We do not need a third catcher on this roster. In case of emergency/injury... Mauer can put on the tools of ignorance and finish up the game. If he catches a foul ball of the mask in that short time and is concussed... it's just bad luck. The same bad luck as if he gets hit in the skull by a pitch or gets elbowed in the head at 1B by a runner moving down the line... It's bad luck and we will have to face the fact that we have an injury prone 23 million dollar a year investment.

 

I'm Ok with Joe Mauer giving up catching to be a first baseman... I'm OK if he is labeled a 1st baseman only forever and ever. I do think it increased the odds of him staying healthy but if there is any thought in the Twins ownership, front office, dugout or with Joe or with anyone watching from the stands or reading Twins Daily, that Joe is simply not an option to finish out a game behind the plate if the team needs him in case of in-game injury to a catcher... umm... I don't know what to say.

 

In regards to Pinto's playing time: I don't care if it's the 25th man on the roster with an OPS of .111. If that player has started only once in 9 games. Send him down or cut him. If you have a player collecting dust on your bench in this fashion. He either doesn't belong on the roster or you lack the managerial creativity that God gave to Koala Bears.

 

Now if that player collecting dust... is PINTO... who has done nothing but let everyone know that he is an offensive talent in his short time in the majors. It becomes so head scratching that your scalp become raw from the head scratching. And if the player is Pinto during a time of offensive drought... well... we can assume... ummm.... well I'm speechless... I got nothing.

 

I can even understand it... if Gardy feels that Suzuki handles the pitching staff better. Maybe the pitchers like Suzuki handling them... That's OK... I can understand that. It's OK... Put Suzuki behind the plate until his knees lock into a permanent squat shape. The DH spot is still sitting right there and whoever could have been the DH instead of Pinto can rotate into other positions in the field.

 

I really don't mind if Dozier sits every once in awhile so Santana can play. Do a better job of rotating your players in. I don't mind if Mauer sits every once in awhile so Parm can play.

 

NOBODY should have to sit 8 games out of 9. I'd be concerned if Kubel sat 8 out of 9 games.

 

The fact that Pinto has played less then everybody on the entire roster in the past 9 games is... ummm... I can't think of any words that respectfully fit.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen... Meet your 25th Man... Josmil PINTO!!!

[Boom Boom]

Let's say that Suzuki keeps hitting above his career averages all season, continues to catch 4 out of every 5 games, and leaves as a free agent at the end of the season.

 

In that scenario, would the Twins feel comfortable with Pinto as their primary catcher in 2015? Or would they have the same reservations about his defense and game-calling and feel the need to get another veteran catcher to take the lion's share of the reps behind the plate?

 

I'm happy for how Suzuki has played, but I want Pinto to be the regular catcher. Either he's a catcher or he's not, and I'd rather not pigeonhole him as a DH at this point in his young career.

[ericchri]

The only real fix to this problem is just accepting that two of our five best hitters right now are catchers and playing them both anyway. If you drop Kubel off the roster to put Herrmann on it, I guess I can live with that since Kubel isn't contributing anything anyway, but I'd prefer a solution that just puts the players on the field that should be on the field and stop worrying about once every 5 years catastrophes that last for one game (fractions of a game, really).

[Boom Boom]

4.) I don't think Pinto is very good defensively at all, so I am fine with him catching just twice a week (in a 6-game week) and DHing three times a week. I would be happy with that. With Suzuki catching four out of six games.

 

This is what I'm talking about. If he isn't good enough defensively to be a catcher, then find another position for him. There aren't 9 other Twins who deserve to be in the lineup more than Pinto.

 

If you expect his defense to improve, it's going to take a very long time if the only game action he's seeing there is when Deduno is pitching.

[jokin]

I knew you would say that......if it isn't evidence (with Bartlett and Guerrier) that he isn't about building for the future, what is it?

 

Who can argue that the foundational cornerstones for Gardy's approach at building and managing a team:

 

1) Always look to adding additional veteran leadership, even in a full rebuild.

2) When given an option, always look to playing the vet over the youngster.

 

Besides the curious cases of Bartlett, Guerrier, Kubel.....listing just last night's game examples:

Case in point 1: Suzuki over Pinto essentially means "No Pinto"- not even a PH chance to tie the game. Suzuki's apparent compromise with Gardy was to let Pinto catch Deduno.

Case in point 2: Gibson had to come out last night after the 6th, sure....but how many Twins fans knew, just knew, when Burton's name was announced in the 7th, that by the time he was done, the game was likely lost?

 

He plays to his comfort zone with deliberate veteran overuse, evidence is out there that he curries favor with them by letting them call too many of the shots, and this has been his standard MO, even when it means losing is more likely. How is this the right guy for continuing to implement the rebuild, which requires youngsters getting 100s of consistent PAs and reps in the field?

[sorney]

I do not believe for a second that Joe Mauer has forgotten how to play Catcher!!! We do not need a third catcher on this roster. In case of emergency/injury... Mauer can put on the tools of ignorance and finish up the game. If he catches a foul ball of the mask in that short time and is concussed... it's just bad luck. The same bad luck as if he gets hit in the skull by a pitch or gets elbowed in the head at 1B by a runner moving down the line... It's bad luck and we will have to face the fact that we have an injury prone 23 million dollar a year investment.

 

I'm Ok with Joe Mauer giving up catching to be a first baseman... I'm OK if he is labeled a 1st baseman only forever and ever. I do think it increased the odds of him staying healthy but if there is any thought in the Twins ownership, front office, dugout or with Joe or with anyone watching from the stands or reading Twins Daily, that Joe is simply not an option to finish out a game behind the plate if the team needs him in case of in-game injury to a catcher... umm... I don't know what to say.

 

In regards to Pinto's playing time: I don't care if it's the 25th man on the roster with an OPS of .111. If that player has started only once in 9 games. Send him down or cut him. If you have a player collecting dust on your bench in this fashion. He either doesn't belong on the roster or you lack the managerial creativity that God gave to Koala Bears.

 

Now if that player collecting dust... is PINTO... who has done nothing but let everyone know that he is an offensive talent in his short time in the majors. It becomes so head scratching that your scalp become raw from the head scratching. And if the player is Pinto during a time of offensive drought... well... we can assume... ummm.... well I'm speechless... I got nothing.

 

I can even understand it... if Gardy feels that Suzuki handles the pitching staff better. Maybe the pitchers like Suzuki handling them... That's OK... I can understand that. It's OK... Put Suzuki behind the plate until his knees lock into a permanent squat shape. The DH spot is still sitting right there and whoever could have been the DH instead of Pinto can rotate into other positions in the field.

 

I really don't mind if Dozier sits every once in awhile so Santana can play. Do a better job of rotating your players in. I don't mind if Mauer sits every once in awhile so Parm can play.

 

NOBODY should have to sit 8 games out of 9. I'd be concerned if Kubel sat 8 out of 9 games.

 

The fact that Pinto has played less then everybody on the entire roster in the past 9 games is... ummm... I can't think of any words that respectfully fit.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen... Meet your 25th Man... Josmil PINTO!!!

 

Agreed with most of this...minus the Koala bears. They aren't THAT creative. I'd go with curious, over creative.

[Seth Stohs]

It may surprise some since I'm a Prospect Guy, and I love watching young players... but I'm definitely not one who agrees with just going with the younger guy through anything. We've seen that for the last year and a half with Aaron Hicks.

 

Josmil Pinto has earned the playing time, so I want to see him.

 

Danny Santana, I don't think he's got much ceiling, but he's earned some playing time. Eduardo Escobar has earned his playing time as well. I want Santana playing every day in Rochester.

 

It's honestly a case-by-case thing for me.

 

Now, this thread is obviously about Josmil Pinto, and I definitely believe that he should be playing. I think that as much because of how he overcame that two-week slump, he's earned it.

[Mike Sixel]

I think everyone but the people who get to decide agree Seth.

[DaveW]

In no scenario should Mauer be expected to be an "emergency" catcher. I'd rather just lose the DH for an at-bat or two.

[Winston Smith]

We really should stop complaining about Gardy. He will be the manager as long as he wants. We can point to the end on the 2023 season when he will turn 66 at which time he can collect full social security. That will likely be the first chance we see a new manager.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I think Suzuki as the Starting Catcher is just fine; and Seth's suggestion o 4 out of every 6 games should be plenty. Suzuki himself stated that his success this year compared to the last few was that he was finally healthy and rested.

Having Pinto catch a third of the teams' games (and DH'ing most of the rest of time) would be my vote if being a fan included that right.

 

My other point about the DH spot was just that I would rather have Pinto's defense behind home plate and Willingham/Kubel as the DH instead of those guys playing in the OF to get their bat in the lineup. Given the options on the current roster, it seems like it will be hard to find good defense in LF.

 

I think vs. Lefties is easy enough: Start Suzuki at C, Pinto DH, and reluctantly trot Willingham out in LF. Kubel can be on the bench.

[Linus]

Well, we have a manager who wants to win right now and a team that is pointing towards winning in the future. Reminds me of Moneyball where Beane ends up trading Pena(?) just so the manager can't play him.

I said from the beginning that Pinto and Hicks should have started the season in Rochester playing every day. Pinto is not going to become a better defensive catcher by not catching. The same thing is driving me nuts about Danny Santana - he appears to be more of a prospect than most were giving credit for and he is sitting on the bench occasionally playing out of position. If I'm Terry Ryan, as soon as I'm back at the helm, I start dealing and releasing all the veterans that are not a part of the future. I would end up with a 25 man roster that doesn't contain multiple DHs / corner outfield types.

[Riverbrian]

In no scenario should Mauer be expected to be an "emergency" catcher. I'd rather just lose the DH for an at-bat or two.

 

I have to ask why?

[amjgt]

The off handed comment during last nights broadcast says everything we need to know. I don't know if it was Bert or Dick, but they said something like "well I bet that's the last time Suzuki convinces Gardy to let him play against Saunders"

 

Immediate facepalm..

 

1. Suzuki was something like 1/11 coming into the game against him

2. His players shouldn't be dictating thing like this to Gardy

3. This part really got me - "against Saunders" - Like, of course, he's going to be able to do it with other pitchers Suzuki has historically struggled against, but that is the LAST TIME.... for Saunders, who we will likely never face again anyway.

[jokin]

The off handed comment during last nights broadcast says everything we need to know. I don't know if it was Bert or Dick, but they said something like "well I bet that's the last time Suzuki convinces Gardy to let him play against Saunders"

 

Immediate facepalm..

 

1. Suzuki was something like 1/11 coming into the game against him

2. His players shouldn't be dictating thing like this to Gardy

3. This part really got me - "against Saunders" - Like, of course, he's going to be able to do it with other pitchers Suzuki has historically struggled against, but that is the LAST TIME.... for Saunders, who we will likely never face again anyway.

 

Good post. Thanks for the additional background info. (I am still stumped that no one, let alone Suzuki for his career, was able to solve Saunders last night). And I just looked up Suzuki's actual career line against Saunders, it's even worse than you imagined:

 

2 for 33 slash- .061/.114/.152/.266

 

Kind of hard to justify putting Kurt out there, no matter what the catching situation was with Gibson.

[Seth Stohs]

Just to point this out... Chris Herrmann was removed from the Rochester game in the 4th inning this morning by Doug Bernier in RF. My guess... he's on his way...

[jokin]

Just to point this out... Chris Herrmann was removed from the Rochester game in the 4th inning this morning by Doug Bernier in RF. My guess... he's on his way...

 

Is Hicks possibly going on the DL?

[tobi0040]

Is Hicks possibly going on the DL?

 

Sweet. Our line NEEDS Herrmann

[Brock Beauchamp]

I have to ask why?

 

Well, the further he gets away from catching, the less he'll have the ability to jump behind the dish at a moment's notice. Catching is really, really hard. I could never do it. I think it's best to just write off Mauer as a catcher permanently and avoid the risks. This just isn't a big deal either way. Losing a DH for part of one game should be a non-issue.

[jokin]

Sweet. Our line NEEDS Herrmann

 

Or are they waiving Kubel?

 

Whichever "remedy", Gardy gets his 3 catchers, and the fans get to see Pinto more than once a week.

[Guest USAFChief]

Why is it so important to continually make accommodations for the manager, rather than having the manager adapt to better strategy?

[Brock Beauchamp]

Why is it so important to continually make accommodations for the manager, rather than having the manager adapt to better strategy?

 

Winner winner, chicken dinner.

 

The problem here isn't Pinto or Suzuki. It's Ron Gardenhire. I have a lot of patience for a lot of things but one thing I cannot stand is "doing something because it's always been done that way" in the face of piles of evidence that it's either a moot point or a bad idea.

[amjgt]

Or are they waiving Kubel?

 

Whichever "remedy", Gardy gets his 3 catchers, and the fans get to see Pinto more than once a week.

 

The have far too much loyalty for that. I'd prefer Kubel come down with some sort of "shoulder strain"

 

Although, as someone pointed out yesterday, I think, he's due some sort of $150k roster bonus soon.

[Linus]

Well, it could get very interesting if Hicks has to go on the DL. Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce your new full time centerfielder...........Danny Santana. Not even in the wildest TD scenarios did anybody see that one coming.

 

And, just great, as we need him to be our shortstop but he is going to waste an entire year of development screwing around in this mess at age 23.

[DJL44]

Is there really that much difference between these scenarios?

 

A) Suzuki gets hurt and Pinto has to move to C thus causing pitchers (or PH) to bat for the remainder of the game

Suzuki gets hurt and Chris Herrmann goes in as the backup thus causing Chris Herrmann to bat for the remainder of the game

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Free Jason Kubel!

http://freejasonkubel.blogspot.com/

 

Wait. I mean, "Free" as in "release."

 

If you let him go and he comes back, it was meant to be.

 

Free Josmil Pinto!

 

in other news, remember 2008?

[amjgt]

Is there really that much difference between these scenarios?

 

A) Suzuki gets hurt and Pinto has to move to C thus causing pitchers (or PH) to bat for the remainder of the game

Suzuki gets hurt and Chris Herrmann goes in as the backup thus causing Chris Herrmann to bat for the remainder of the game

 

No.

 

And if you didn't want to "burn through" your bench, you could even pinch hit with your best hitting pitchers. There's no law against Phil Hughes pinch hitting.

[LewFordLives]

Good article.

[Seth Stohs]

Just to point this out... Chris Herrmann was removed from the Rochester game in the 4th inning this morning by Doug Bernier in RF. My guess... he's on his way...

 

Jim Mandelaro tweeted that La Velle talked to Brad Steil who said that Herrmann has a sore wrist.