Danny Santana

[ashbury]

Trade Florimon

 

He will depart the same way he arrived, via waivers.

[Mike Sixel]

I admit I thought he'd hit more like Floriman, and field a bit worse. I have NO IDEA if he can play CF.....but since they have no SS anywhere near the majors, why not let him play SS for awhile? If that doesn't work, send him to AAA for a month to play CF (it's not like anyone in AA or AAA is blocking him......sigh).

[tobi0040]

It won't be too long until his batting average dips under .220, but he's really exciting. His speed is fantastic and I hope he doesn't get injured (an injury that would sap his speed, that is. Like Mastoianni). Might as well keep starting him while he's hot.

 

While it would typically be horrible if your SS batting average drops to .220, he would be getting 2x the hits of the guy he is replacing. So i think this works out really well. We get way more offensive production out of SS and he can learn on the job.

 

I assure you, if 80 balls get through the SS gaps, Pedro would not get to 40 of them. So this works out pretty well.

[Cris E]

If anything I'd put Santana at SS while he's hot and let utilityman Escobar play CF while he's hot. Then when things need to change just send out Santana to learn SS at AAA.

[TKGuy]

Funny when two of your hottest hitters play SS as their best position, especially on the Twins. I would rather keep playing Santana at SS 4-5 times a week if he is going to stay up. Escobar could play SS 2-3 times a week and sub in other positions and probably have 4-5 games a week also.

[Halsey Hall]

Santana will hit. He just might stick around, and some I know think this should of been done earlier. Keep him at short and play Escobar at 3rd once in awhile. He hits, or is, better than Plouffe.

[kab21]

Santana will hit. He just might stick around, and some I know think this should of been done earlier. Keep him at short and play Escobar at 3rd once in awhile. He hits, or is, better than Plouffe.

 

I doubt that will be the case by the end of the season. Escobar doesn't have a chance to OPS .700 while Plouffe OPS's .700+ and is a disappointment. there's also a chance that things click for Plouffe and he becomes a less streaky solid hitter (.750+ OPS).

 

I think the Twins should start Santana 4-5 games/wk and rotate Escobar in wherever there is an opening (even CF if he's not horrible).

[Brock Beauchamp]

I doubt that will be the case by the end of the season. Escobar doesn't have a chance to OPS .700 while Plouffe OPS's .700+ and is a disappointment. there's also a chance that things click for Plouffe and he becomes a less streaky solid hitter (.750+ OPS).

 

I think the Twins should start Santana 4-5 games/wk and rotate Escobar in wherever there is an opening (even CF if he's not horrible).

 

Agreed. The likelihood of Plouffe becoming an acceptable long-term 3B is much higher than Escobar doing the same.

[cmathewson]

He will depart the same way he arrived, via waivers.

 

Three errors in three games and three 0fers for the Red Wings. The spiral has yet to bottom out.

[ashbury]

Three errors in three games and three 0fers for the Red Wings. The spiral has yet to bottom out.

 

I take no pleasure in seeing him fall apart, of course. He battled a physical ailment this spring that would have kept me recuperating for weeks longer. This is probably harder for him than being waived by the Orioles, since someone still wanted to pick him up and give him a chance.

 

The fielding will straighten itself out, but the bat just won't. The majority of aspiring infielders eventually have to face this, it just took longer for him and it's probably no consolation to him at this moment that he held onto that bottom rung in the majors for a while.

[tobi0040]

Agreed. The likelihood of Plouffe becoming an acceptable long-term 3B is much higher than Escobar doing the same.

 

Not to mention, Plouffe's .706 OPS is 12th in the major leagues. It is almost as if we had Mike Schmidt at 3B for 20 years and he just retired and we have unrealistic expectations for the next guy. Rather, Plouffe replaced the likes of Mike Lamb, Tony Bautista, Nick Punto, etc.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable.jsp#sectionType=sp&sortColumn=ops&season=2014&league_code='MLB'&statType=hitting&game_type='R'&elem=%5Bobject+Object%5D&tab_level=child&click_text=Sortable+Player+hitting&season_type=ANY&page=1&ts=1399911477735&position='5'

[Brock Beauchamp]

Not to mention, Plouffe's .706 OPS is 12th in the major leagues. It is almost as if we had Mike Schmidt at 3B for 20 years and he just retired and we have unrealistic expectations for the next guy. Rather, Plouffe replaced the likes of Mike Lamb, Tony Bautista, Nick Punto, etc.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable.jsp#sectionType=sp&sortColumn=ops&season=2014&league_code='MLB'&statType=hitting&game_type='R'&elem=%5Bobject+Object%5D&tab_level=child&click_text=Sortable+Player+hitting&season_type=ANY&page=1&ts=1399911477735&position='5'

 

Yep. For all the condemnation of Plouffe, he's always flirting with league average numbers. Sometimes a little over (2012), sometimes a little under (2013). Thus far in 2014, he's right around league average.

[Guest USAFChief]

I think expectations for Santana are out of whack with his career .711 minor league OPS.

[tobi0040]

I think expectations for Santana are out of whack with his career .711 minor league OPS.

 

That could be, but .711 would rank 14th among SS so far this year. Consider a few things:

 

-Santana has been younger than every league he has been in

-He has averaged close to 20 doubles a year

-His SB totals from 2011 to 2013 were 24, 17, and 30

-What are the other options?

 

 

Lets let this kid learn up here and put up better numbers doing it than the alternative.

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable.jsp#sectionType=sp&sortColumn=ops&season=2014&league_code='MLB'&statType=hitting&game_type='R'&elem=%5Bobject+Object%5D&tab_level=child&click_text=Sortable+Player+hitting&season_type=ANY&page=1&ts=1399913834327&position='6'

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=santan001dan

[tobi0040]

Yep. For all the condemnation of Plouffe, he's always flirting with league average numbers. Sometimes a little over (2012), sometimes a little under (2013). Thus far in 2014, he's right around league average.

 

I am a big fan of Plouffe. He doesn't make much money. He is league average right now and if Sano pushes him off 3B he may be able to move to a corner OF spot, and at the very least be a bench/platoon option elsewhere against lefties (career .826 OPS)*

 

*Assumes the Twins change course and adopt a platooning strategy

[ericchri]

At the moment playing Santana at SS, Escobar at 3B, and Plouffe in a corner OF doesn't seem all that unreasonable. That's not intended to be permanent, eventually the roster gets shaken up by Arcia/Willingham coming back and one/both of Escoabar and Santana cooling off to a more realistic level. Until then, might as well get your hottest hitters (not sure Plouffe right now qualifies, but the competition is Kubel and Colabello) on the field in the most optimal arrangement possible.

[cmathewson]

I was going to post what Tobi posted. Raw OPS is not the only measure of tools. He has tools unlike any in the organization at his position. As long as he's producing, this is valuable learning time. If he struggles in a Hicksian fashion, he could benefit from more seasoning. Until then, watch and enjoy.

[Linus]

Since he has a chance to solve a huge problem for us, Santana should be playing SS exclusively, whether it is here or Rochester. Why anybody (including Gardy) would think it is a good idea to start asking him to play multiple positions when he is still trying to master the one most important to us is beyond me. Run Esco out there if you feel the need to continue this boneheaded experiment. This is classic Gardy: a couple years ago he would have cut off his own hand before he would put an infielder in the outfield. Now he thinks half the guys on the roster are Ben Zobrist. Where did the "defense is more important than anything" manager go?

[Halsey Hall]

Agreed. The likelihood of Plouffe becoming an acceptable long-term 3B is much higher than Escobar doing the same.

 

I highly doubt either one will become an acceptable long-term 3b.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I highly doubt either one will become an acceptable long-term 3b.

 

Plouffe has looked a lot better this season and is posting a positive WAR defensively and offensively. I doubt he'll ever be great but he's a decent enough player to stick at third through his prime seasons.

[Dave T]

Sunday's game blew my little mind, to quote an old Donovan song. As Nick Nelson tweeted, the Rochester Red Wings infield was playing outfield for the Twins by the end of the game. Nunez in left, Santana in CF, Parmalee in right. And you know what? They looked pretty damned good doing it. Nunez made a running catch of a foul ball down the LF line like he'd been doing it forever. Santana called everybody off to take that blooper.

 

I never want to see Escobar in the OF again, and I do not want to see Santana playing SS until he actually develops, you know, SS skill. Don't you guys remember Santana throwing the ball to Dozier for a failed force play instead of making the easy out at first, in the Saturday game? That would have been the third out of the inning, and we might have won that game. Santana at shortstop = dumb move. Santana at CF = fast enough to play CF, so let him start until Hicks finds his bat.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I never want to see Escobar in the OF again, and I do not want to see Santana playing SS until he actually develops, you know, SS skill. Don't you guys remember Santana throwing the ball to Dozier for a failed force play instead of making the easy out at first, in the Saturday game? That would have been the third out of the inning, and we might have won that game. Santana at shortstop = dumb move. Santana at CF = fast enough to play CF, so let him start until Hicks finds his bat.

 

You're putting an awful lot of stock in three innings that resulted in three put-outs.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I am a big fan of Plouffe. He doesn't make much money. He is league average right now and if Sano pushes him off 3B he may be able to move to a corner OF spot, and at the very least be a bench/platoon option elsewhere against lefties (career .826 OPS)*

 

*Assumes the Twins change course and adopt a platooning strategy

 

Agreed, although he is becoming less cheap every year. He's making $2.35 million this year, and for his ~.700 OPS production, he may not be worth a raise beyond that, particularly if he's a corner OF or utility guy.

 

Ideally he could still bridge us to Sano in 2015, but it might be best to deal him (or even non-tender him?) before then too, depending on Sano's rehab.

[Mike Sixel]

Or put him in LF if he can.

[tobi0040]

Agreed, although he is becoming less cheap every year. He's making $2.35 million this year, and for his ~.700 OPS production, he may not be worth a raise beyond that, particularly if he's a corner OF or utility guy.

 

Ideally he could still bridge us to Sano in 2015, but it might be best to deal him (or even non-tender him?) before then too, depending on Sano's rehab.

 

You lost me at non-tender. Even if he is making $3M a year. He can hit in five positions (3B, 1B, LF, RF, DH) and crushes lefties. If we are lucky enough to have a better hitter at 3B, 1B, DH, LF, and RF and nobody at those spots is hurt, he is a bench alternative to the likes of one of our 3 SS, Parmelee, Hermann, our 3rd catcher, etc.

 

If Sano comes up and sticks at 3B, of course you gauge his value as 3B is a weak position in the league. But the alternative is a great platoon player, not a non-tender.

[cmathewson]

I don't know how Plouffe got added to a Santana thread, but since it went that way...

 

People need to keep in mind that he is hitting with virtually no protection. When Colabello and Kubel were hot, Plouffe got some pitches to hit. Since Cola and Kubel became out machines, he's lucky to get one hitter's pitch per plate appearance. He's not missing them by much, but he is missing them. Let's see him with real hitters behind him before we jump to the conclusion that he isn't any good.

 

MY POV: He'll never be an All Star. But he can be a decent bridge to Sano. Even after Sano, I can see him with a role on this team, either in LF or RF, or as a DH platoon and super utility guy. The only way he gets too expensive is if he finishes a season with a sustained period like his 2012 before the wrist injury. If that happens, he'll be a valuable trade chip.

[tobi0040]

I don't know how Plouffe got added to a Santana thread, but since it went that way...

 

Even after Sano, I can see him with a role on this team, either in LF or RF, or as a DH platoon and super utility guy. The only way he gets too expensive is if he finishes a season with a sustained period like his 2012 before the wrist injury. If that happens, he'll be a valuable trade chip.

 

I agree. Championship caliber teams have guys like this on them. He is not a #3 or #4 hitter on a championship team. But he is a guy that can come up with an OPS over .800 in the 40 games you play against a lefty. Mauer and Arcia have a history of being banged up and going on the DL, having Plouffe around to step in is huge. These things win games over the course of a year.