Article: Roster Shuffle: Twins Add Guerrier, What's Next?

[Mike Sixel]

From Hardballtalk.com today:

 

The Twins carry a eight-man bullpen and Joe Mauer is hurt, but not on the DL. That means they have 11 position players available, which means that shortstop Eduardo Escobar played left field. The Indians’ ninth inning rally kicked off when Escobar got turned around on a fly ball and it ended up landing on the track for a double. Maybe — and this is just a suggestion — teams don’t need eight-man bullpens.

[Otto von Ballpark]

As for Guerrier, it seems to me it's another example of the Twins perhaps making promises to aging free agents over the winter that they shouldn't have made, and shouldn't feel compelled to honor (see Bartlett, Jason for another example).

 

Mildly off-topic: how did Bartlett get such an early opt-out date, compared to Guerrier? I get that Guerrier was coming off surgery in the off-season, but Bartlett had been out of baseball almost two years. Bartlett got the same basic opt-out date (late March) as Kubel?

 

I see now that Guerrier was cut in the spring and re-signed with the later opt-out date... very curious why that wasn't pursued with Bartlett, his spring was probably worse than Guerrier's and his long layoff probably left him more rusty than Guerrier too. Was another team going to add Bartlett to their 25-man roster in late March?

 

Whether roster promises were made prematurely to these players, this certainly supports my theory that the Twins front office is perhaps a little too much like a country club -- they almost always prefer to work with familiar players, coaches, and agents, often to the exclusion of performance considerations.

[Mike Sixel]

Shouldn't people be allowed to have opinions different than yours?

 

Of course you can. Explain why this is a good idea, and if I agree with your rationale, I will change my mind. Why is it a good idea to have 8 RP, call up a 35 year old that wasn't good last year, during a rebuild, when you have people in the minors that could do his job? when the team has 2 OF, 3 C and 3 SS on the roster? If you can explain why this is roster is well run right now, I am willing to admit I was wrong.

[Paul Pleiss]

I don't understand how adding Guerrier makes the team better, how it's good for the organization, or anyone other than Guerrier. Did the Twins make a back-room deal to bring him up before releasing him and they're just saving face by honoring this back-alley deal?

 

Jason Bartlett, Matt Guerrier. What the?

[Otto von Ballpark]

In the grand scheme of things, it's trivial. It's a "mistake" that can be reversed today if need be. This isn't a Capps/Ramos situation that cannot be undone.

 

I wouldn't fire the guy, and worse moves have happened even more recently than Capps/Ramos, but this situation is not really a momentary mistake. This has been the condition since at least March, if not earlier (given how little we actually thought of Presley and Mastro). And we're still apparently waiting for lingering health issues to resolve themselves (and massive performance reversals, in the case of Hicks) as our solution.

 

Again, I wouldn't fire Antony, but if these moves have been his call or met with his approval, I would definitely start bugging TR to return, and severely temper any plans for Antony to be the heir apparent GM.

[Don't Feed the Greed Guy]

I consider myself to be a longtime fan, who weathered the Calvin Griffith years when the Twins roster was sold off/bought off young talent to California (Bostock and Carew) and New York (Smalley and Wynegar). But the 2014 Reunion Tour of aging talents like Guerrier, Kubel, and Bartlett is a new low in the opposite direction--at a time when the team should be rebuilding, not reliving the past.

 

These recent roster/lineup moves reek of desperation. Heck, even Danny Santana has more experience in the outfield than Eduardo Escobar... Weird. And why/when will Joe Mauer go on the DL, at least retroactive to Sunday? This is getting bizarre...

[Thrylos]

Logan Darnell should be starting (as in beginning games) in AAA right now. Matt Guerrier has been a very solid big league contributor for 10 years. Let's think about the track record instead of his most recent outing in Rochester.

 

Darnell should be starting for the Twins instead of Deduno while Pelfrey is out.

 

The ghost of Gurrier's past is what the Twins are counting on. Past performance does not mean much. They did that mistake (at least) once trading for Yesterday Eddie when he was the same age Guerrier is and he was awful. They got to learn at some point.

[Brandon]

I just want to point out a few obvious things.

 

1. depth management is as important as roster construction this time of year which is why the best players are not called up right now. We need to make sure we keep as many assets as we can in case of injury...

 

2. With a few breaks we could actually be competitive this year. when Meyer comes up and if Deduno pitches well then we could end up with an average to slightly above average rotation. and Detroit has an ineffective bullpen so if Guerrier is a FA cause we don't call him up I bet he goes there and pitches with Nathan out of their pen. We can just as easily hold on to him and we have trade leverage.

 

3. Our tradeable pieces are adding up Corriea, Pelfry, several bullpen arms, Parmelee, Willingham, and Kubel. We could really add to our minor league depth this trade deadline.

 

4. The Twins tend to keep an eye on other teams pretty well. I wonder if they were planning to get Fuld from the get go. Pressley really looked bad in spring training.

[Dantes929]

" Darnell should be starting for the Twins instead of Deduno while Pelfrey is out" This. "The Twins have done a terrible job at managing their 25-and 40-man rosters this season. A little of this is injury-based, to be sure...but a lot of it is self-inflicted, starting with the Bartlett debacle" This. " I don't think the issue is Guerrier's past accomplishments or what he still has left in the tank. The issue is does he bring any real value added to this team now or in the future? I think the answer is no. The bullpen has been solid and they shouldn't waste a roster move on an aging relief pitcher when they are in desperate need of a bench. This is a no-brainer move.....they should have let Guerrier walk...." This. and ""Hey...you're wasting a roster spot on a third catcher. How do we know you're wasting that roster spot? You haven't played him at catcher." This. I have never used the "This" comment, used bold, or questioned the Twins moves this much. I just don't get it. Florimon down but don't understand why the push from posters for Nunez. Escobar has done just fine and should be given the chance and if he fails give it to Santana and if he fails give it to Nunez. Escobar has earned it and Santana is most likely to be part of the future. If all fails maybe Florimon will have earned his way back by then.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Deduno was the Twins' best pitcher when healthy last season. He deserves the first shot at an open spot in the rotation.

[cmathewson]

In the grand scheme of things, it's trivial. It's a "mistake" that can be reversed today if need be. This isn't a Capps/Ramos situation that cannot be undone.

 

I don't like the move one bit but calling for a guy's head over it is absurd.

 

It's the grand scheme of things that led to my fire him comment, not this one mistake. There's an appaling lack of any accountability on the outfield situation.

 

It gets worse, you know. Today's outfield has Kubel in right, Escobar in center and Hermann in left. Injuries, of course, led to this. But good GMs plan for injuries. The fact that they don't even have a center fielder in AAA is on Antony. Until they claimed Wilson and Buxton came back from injury, the highest level where they had a legitimate center fielder was the Midwest league. That should not happen.

[Mike Sixel]

Wait....did you just type that Esco is in center and Hermann in left?

 

So, yes, feel free to disagree with my stance that this is a bad move, but explain how it is a good move.....

[Dantes929]

"Matt Guerrier has been a very solid big league contributor for 10 years. Let's think about the track record instead of his most recent outing in Rochester." If it was 10 solid years followed by a bad recent outing I would agree. It is 10 solid years being generous calling last year 4.01 NL relief solid, surgery and rehab, two bad outings at AA 35 years old, and promoting him just because of an opt out clause he probably wouldn't have taken. I really liked Guerrier but give him more money to stay, let him earn his way back or let him walk.

[Brock Beauchamp]

It's the grand scheme of things that led to my fire him comment, not this one mistake. There's an appaling lack of any accountability on the outfield situation.

 

It gets worse, you know. Today's outfield has Kubel in right, Escobar in center and Hermann in left. Injuries, of course, led to this. But good GMs plan for injuries. The fact that they don't even have a center fielder in AAA is on Antony. Until they claimed Wilson and Buxton came back from injury, the highest level where they had a legitimate center fielder was the Midwest league. That should not happen.

 

The "grand scheme of things" involves two months where we're not even sure what decisions are being made by Antony and what decisions are being made by Ryan.

 

A bit premature, don't you think? I'm not defending this move (or Escobar starting in center today, ugh) but calling for a guy's head when you don't even know for sure that any of this was his call is a knee-jerk reaction to the situation.

[Mike Sixel]

Who's call is it, if not the acting GM? Is he the acting GM or not?

[Craig Arko]

@MikeBerardino: #mntwins hitting coach Tom Brunansky offered to come out of retirement but said he'd need 2 days. "I don't have two days," Gardy said.

[Mike Sixel]

@MikeBerardino: #mntwins hitting coach Tom Brunansky offered to come out of retirement but said he'd need 2 days. "I don't have two days," Gardy said.

 

Good stuff.

[ScottyB]

Actually Herrmann is in RF and Kubel in LF, but yes Escobar is in CF. Suzuki and Pinto flip flop - Zuke is DH and Pinto is catching.

[Mike Sixel]

Progress! Pinto is catching!

[Dantes929]

Deduno was the Twins' best pitcher when healthy last season. He deserves the first shot at an open spot in the rotation.

I am ok with that. I just like the idea of giving Darnell a shot but also I actually equate Deduno with Guerrier at his best. Reliever that can give you more than one inning at a time and spot start if needed. Just made sense to me because Darnell was AAA pitcher of the month as a starter with starter innings. No argument with your statement except for those reasons. I have supported Guerrier in his prior stint with the Twins even when others were down on him but I just don't like promoting him at this time. The opt out just doesn't seem that significant to me.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Who's call is it, if not the acting GM? Is he the acting GM or not?

 

Ryan is with the team in the ballpark every day. We have no idea at what level he is participating in decisions.

 

And even if it's Antony who made the call, it's a minor decision in his first two months on the job. If you think that's the kind of thing that gets a guy fired, you're going to have a hard time retaining any employees.

[cmathewson]

The "grand scheme of things" involves two months where we're not even sure what decisions are being made by Antony and what decisions are being made by Ryan.

 

A bit premature, don't you think? I'm not defending this move (or Escobar starting in center today, ugh) but calling for a guy's head when you don't even know for sure that any of this was his call is a knee-jerk reaction to the situation.

 

First of all, the Twins have said that Antony and not Ryan is approving all moves until Ryan is back full time, which is not yet. Who recommends them, and such, is irrelevant. So assuming the Twins are not lying about that, in two months, Antony's made a half dozen basic mistakes. I'm not talking about nuanced mistakes here. These are GM 101 type things, like not offering your number 1 draft pick a contract in time so that he becomes a free agent. Those kinds of mistakes. I can excuse a couple of them. But when every single roster decision he makes is the result of a basic mistake, and the combination of these mistakes leads to a crippled team, he needs to be held accountable for it. If the Twins or the media won't do it, it's our job to.

 

And firing him is not the only way to hold him accountable. I was saying that to be controversial, half in jest. But how else do you hold a guy accountable for screwing up a decent team?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

@MikeBerardino: #mntwins hitting coach Tom Brunansky offered to come out of retirement but said he'd need 2 days. "I don't have two days," Gardy said.

 

Did the Pohlads laugh? That is the question.

[Mike Sixel]

Not having any backup CF plan above A ball is the issue. That's not one decision, it a series of decsions. Having 8 RP is a series of decisions. Having 3 "C" and 3 "SS"* is a series of decisions. Having Florimann still on the roster? Having Hermann still on the roster? Having 2 OF on the roster for days? That's not one decision. This isn't one decision. And, he's the acting GM....as in, this is his chance to prove he should be hired full time. Right now, I would not do that.

 

*"" used because I don't think these guys are C or SS

[Brock Beauchamp]

And firing him is not the only way to hold him accountable. I was saying that to be controversial, half in jest. But how else do you hold a guy accountable for screwing up a decent team?

 

Call him out for it. These moves absolutely deserve to be called out. Most of us agree on that.

[drivlikejehu]

The roster has been horribly mismanaged in a way that should never happen in MLB. Yet, there is zero accountability. I don't know what specifically needs to happen, but I know the current management system isn't working.

[Beezer07]

 

And firing him is not the only way to hold him accountable. I was saying that to be controversial, half in jest. But how else do you hold a guy accountable for screwing up a decent team?

 

Wait, which team are we talking about?

[Otto von Ballpark]

4. The Twins tend to keep an eye on other teams pretty well. I wonder if they were planning to get Fuld from the get go. Pressley really looked bad in spring training.

 

Sorry, can't give credit here. Fuld was a free agent this offseason, and signed a minor league deal with Oakland in February even though he was unlikely to make their roster (indeed, he only did for the first 2 weeks of the season due to injury).

 

If they were ready to cut both Presley and Mastro that quickly, ahead of Jason Bartlett (!), they should have gone into spring training with some better CF options to support Hicks.

 

EDIT TO ADD: We still don't even have a real CF in AAA either (Eric Farris, career minor league infielder). And our AA CF and only other 40-man CF was the guy cut by the team claiming Mastro.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I don't know if this is an Anthony or Ryan thing. I do know that it seems as though every year at some point there's some discussion about poor roster management as injured guys are on too long and it seems like they take forever to make moves.

 

Sometimes I wonder if there's some obscure rules associated with roster changes that aren't common knowlege... Because for the life of me, I cannot figure out the logic in the roster as it's currently configured.

[AScheib50]

My biggest issue here is that there are several other guys who I think should have been ahead of the Guerrier. It doesn't mean they should have gotten the call because the Twins have no need in the bullpen, but for the overall betterment of this team wouldn't you have rather seen Achter or Deolis Guerra? Young guys with promise for the future is something we should be seeing. If anything to create some buzz? Who really wants to see Matt Guerrier come out of the 'pen?