10 minutes ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

Dude.  Seriously.     

 

I like Polanco.  I have enjoyed watching him, but a guy five years younger with team control who puts up better numbers is a better offensive player than he is currently and is more likely than not to be so in the future as they both age.  Choosing the SSS of lefty vs. lefty as the summation of Julien's batting ability almost reinforces the argument because that means that something else is dragging down Polanco's overall numbers, since they are lower than Julien's.

Polanco

Julien is at best one-half the offense player Polanco is, and while Polanco is not an above average fielder he is still far better than Julien.

Without Farmer, the Twins would be in a large world of hurt at Second Base.

3 minutes ago, RpR said:

Polanco

Julien is at best one-half the offense player Polanco is, and while Polanco is not an above average fielder he is still far better than Julien.

Without Farmer, the Twins would be in a large world of hurt at Second Base.

"Julien is at best one-half the offense player Polanco is"  I will quote you.  This is preposterous.  Look at the overall numbers.

"Without Farmer"  But they have Farmer. He will probably start against some lefty pitchers.  That's like saying "Without Lewis, the Twins would be in trouble at 3rd base".  They have Lewis, the statement is moot.

Again, I am merely stating that I am pleased with the overall return for Polanco and that his position in the lineup can be reasonably compensated for by the talent currently on the team.  We disagree.  I'm very OK with that.

So in this case "reevaluatimg" means "another chance to complain."  Got it.

Bitingly insightful.

15 hours ago, RpR said:

Polanco

Julien is at best one-half the offense player Polanco is, and while Polanco is not an above average fielder he is still far better than Julien.

Without Farmer, the Twins would be in a large world of hurt at Second Base.

Polanco is a better hitter than Julien vs LHP. This is not news. There's also a lot more RHP in MLB, so being able to hit LHP is good, it's not as impactful as being able to hit RHP. Despite doing poorly against LHP last season, Julien was substantially better on offense than Polanco last season. This is simply a fact. Julien is 5 years younger than Polanco with no real injury history as a pro; Polanco has had substantial injury issues the last 2 seasons (and in 2018 as well). This is also a fact.

The idea that Julien is half the offensive player that Polanco is just because Polanco is better vs LHP doesn't pass the smell test. (BTW, Julien is a much better baserunner than Polanco)

Polanco was shopped more aggressively than the movie rights to The Wager.  (Hopefully someone will get this joke.) This is what we got back. I think it is, at best, underwhelming. 

Tony Disco seems destined for more surgery and Topa may just be a shooting star across the sky.

The two prospects, like all prospects,  should come with more warning labels than a pack of cigarettes.

Opinions vary on Polanco. One well-know pundit thinks we should of gotten Bryce Miller back for him. (See a certain recent Patreon podcast about 90 minutes in.) So that made me think. Maybe paying for content and cannabis-infused beer are both bad ideas.  

This blog is odd.   What I learned is Gast has a major affinity for Polanco,  and anything in return was not going to meet his expectations.  

Healthy or not what did we lose. 1 and maybe 2 years of Polanco.  There is not enough bats at 3rd base (where he struggled) 2nd or DH to get full value of a healthy Polanco with Julien here.   

Topa learned a new pitch in 2022.  Had some effectiveness with it in 2022, then took off in 2023.  He appear in 75 games,  the third most appearances of any reliever (thanks mlb radio this morning 😀).  No offense that is not a flash in the pan.  He is another reliable arm to throw in the bullpen.  That has value.  

Gonzalez . . .   wow . . . just wow.  Ok lets be real,  he is not a top 100 prospect but he is a top 150.  He has the best bat to ball skills of any player in A ball last year,  best BA last year in A ball.  If you have tweak something,  Strike zone and identifying pitches is much easier than learning how to hit a ball.  For loving a player like Polanco,  Gonzalez has the potential to be a similar type player if not a better version.  Is he perfect no - but you got him for 1 year of Polanco.  His arm is strong,  and he tailed off in high A.  I anticipate a strong year in high A for him.  Getting another strong outfield prospect does help the minors, but also our depth.  We now have 4 highly rated OF prospects, with several others underneath them.  

Darren Bowen has an a very good fastball and slider right now.  Effectively the Twins can try to have him learn a 3rd pitch and remain a starter,  or fast track him on the reliever side.  

Desclafani - as of right now I am expecting nothing.  He was a negative asset in the trade.  If he pitches we will be getting value, but he still hasn't been cleared.  No offense, but even in 2 months he won't have enough time to build up to be a starter.  I like what he can do (when healthy),  and maybe he gives us another arm in May or June for the summer stretch where inevitably someone will get injured.  I had high hopes at first after reading and article he would be starting his offseason program after the season, but that has quickly soured after further updates.  They stat he will be cleared soon, so we will see.    

Twins dealt from a position of depth, and most likely made best deal they could. 2nd basemen that are subpar defenders are not super high in demand.  Polanco was great at times for Twins, but he is aging and on the wrong side of 30 now. Injuries will continue to pile up and his production will continue to decline.  It is possible he has some good baseball still in him, but we have log jam in the infield and for his production overall compared to what we hope to get from other options the deal makes sense.  Will it turn out to be a win win deal, maybe, or maybe one team gets hosed on the deal.  However, to assume Polanco will have a significant better year than anyone we can replace him with, and all the players we got back in return will produce little to no value is going too far. 

Even if polanco is an allstar the next two seasons, we have Julien and Lee, Topa, Santana and a lottery ticket in A ball.  Im indifferent to DeSclafani and Gonzalez. We got more assets that can shine and develop while replacing Polo’s AB’s so it may be a mutual WIN/WIN type of trade. The Twins aren't going to lose because of this trade.

On 2/7/2024 at 7:55 AM, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

 What I learned is Gast has a major affinity for Polanco,  and anything in return was not going to meet his expectations.  

Healthy or not what did we lose. 1 and maybe 2 years of Polanco.  There is not enough bats at 3rd base (where he struggled) 2nd or DH to get full value of a healthy Polanco with Julien here.   

Dear Bean Counter

Yes, I am a big fan of Polanco for good reasons. He gives it his all, all the time, He'll play hurt when asked (even though it'll affect his personal stats), He'll play anywhere (even though he'd look stupid or expose him to a recurring injury), he's a great leader, clubhouse guy, one of the best clutch hitters out there & he plays cheap.

No, I don't have a major affinity for Polanco. If trading Polanco makes us better & fills a real need (like a bonafide postseason SP), I'd be 100% behind it. But this trade doesn't make us better or fill any real need. I agree that Topa may contribute in '24 but he's taking Varland's spot, a commodity we know and does not move the needle for me to move Polanco.

I don't buy the "Kool-Aid" that's based on hope & magic surrounding this return, Plus I don't buy the "Kool-Aid" that Polanco is broken. Which IL was Polanco on at the end of last season? What off-season surgery did he do? What trade physical did he fail? What IL is he on now? The answer to all these questions is "none" he has a clean bill of health. On the other hand, Correa failed 2 of his physicals yet the Twins signed him.

"The only time Polanco had ever been on the IL as a professional was all the way back in August 2013, when a groin strain sidelined him for 13 days while with Class A Cedar Rapids."

This was until he went on the IL for 10 days with low back tightness which he bounced back from in June "22. He bruised his knee in the 1st part of August, he never went on the IL. The treatment for bone bruises is immediate rest for a couple of weeks to months. He played his heart out for at least a month kept aggravating that injury until he could no longer take the field,

The decision of not treating Polanco's knee bruise in '22 plus complications prolonged Polanco's recovery time, But thanks to Paparesta & Polanco history of bouncing back he's now healthy and ready for '24. Most of Polanco's playing time has been hurt (which is reflected in his stats) and now he's healthy his real projected stats should be comparable to his '21 stats (shown above) including 13 OAA. Comparing a healthy Polanco to a healthy Julien, who's better? Besides the stats from both healthy players heavily favor Polanco. Polanco is a full-time 2Bman, Julien will be platooned. Julien was stretched so he could show that he was average in some stats but in reality, Julien doesn't have the range or DP finesse to play 2B. Pitchers don't care about stats, they want to know if you can get to most GBs & able to turn DPs. In '25 Lee will be ready, so I'd be more willing to let Polanco go.

To summarize, w/o any unforeseen tragedy, we didn't get better we got worse.

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

To summarize, w/o any unforeseen tragedy, we didn't get better we got worse.

 

The season will play out and give us a partial answer. What is done is done. The statement is fair.

FWIW, I'm a big fan of Julien and of Polanco too.

On 2/3/2024 at 7:02 PM, Doctor Gast said:

How fast do they forget it's Jorge Lopez, my mistake. 

There is a reason we try to forget Jorge....Squirrel...

Fast..😁

On 2/3/2024 at 6:41 PM, Rod Carews Birthday said:

There is probably a 50/50 chance that Polanco will have a good season.

A good friend who is a FFBaseball junkie asked about Polanco.

I said draft him every other year.  😉

I liked Jorge, I'd rather traded Farmer and I like Farmer too.

I'll just say I wish Jorge a fabulous career in Seattle or wherever he ends up over the next 5-6 years.

I hope Prospect #3.5 shows me something this year.

Still betting on Carlos "Guitar" Santana resurrecting his old self and winning a Grammy...wait...I mean team MVP consideration.

"No future or present need for Gonzalez"  An OF on  a team with a LF who cant hit left handed pitching, a RF who every rube in the state had been trying to trade for three years, a CF who didn't play a single pitch in the field last year?  A former 1st round pick who can't hit pitches that aren't straight.  Highly unlikely but possible that the kid gets to Minneapolis before he's old enough to buy a drink.

So, we’re RE-evaluating the trade before spring training?? 😉

FWIW, my opinion is that it would have been managerial malpractice to NOT trade at least one second baseman…Polanco, Lee, Julien, Gordon, Martin…to try to mitigate bigger weaknesses in the roster. Take your pick. They chose the oldest, the one with recent availability issues, and probably (Lee?) the one that returned the most. Meanwhile, Polanco’s 162-game bWAR pace last season was less than 0.2 better than Julien’s…with an MLB top-50 prospect waiting in the wings. We’ll see what happens.