Twodogs

I think that there a quite a few lower tier starting pitchers out there on the market, a la Jake Odorizzi, types. Very good pitchers but usually only go 5 maybe 6 innings. I think these teams like the Yankees etc.... all see that yeah a bullpen can do a lot for you, but if you have pitchers that can consistently go 7 innings or sometimes more without the help of the bullpen then that team has a better chance of winning the big one. You just can't ever be sure what you are going to get out of your bullpen, Chapman gave up a bomb to lose in the playoffs, but if the starter is straight up "dealing" then you just leave him in there such as Strasburg in game 6 pitching into the 9th. I mean almost all relievers are at one point a failed starter, so you really never know when they will implode or not be able to find the strike zone and they are especially vulnerable when they have to pitch 2 - 3 days in a row. So if you can keep your best relievers only pitching once per 3 game series they will be much better too. So I think these pitchers that can go 7 and sometimes 8 innings are going to be worth even more money than in the past. I just feel like there is going to be a huge gap between the Coles and Strasburgs and guys like Odorizzi. Odorizzi looks great when he goes out there but he just doesn't seem to last very long which ends up hamstringing the team he is on. Especially when it comes to a 7 game series. JMO

I feel the lack of parity comes more from the oversea's players. Where it basically becomes a bidding war between the have's and the have not's. If those guys were to have to fall into a draft then there would be parity for sure.

How much is Odorizzi worth? I mean I like him, but he threw only 159 innings this year. I mean who is worth more Odorizzi at 159 innings or Berrios at 200 innings?? I think so many of these 4 - 5 inning guys wrecks the bullpen. I mean if he could throw 7 every time out then shoot yeah 3 - 4 year deal. But big money for 5 innings? IDK.

Well your best pitcher all season is Berrios. There is no one in the bullpen who is better. Now I can see pulling him in mid June with 80 pitches and a 3 - 3 tie game where only one of his runs were earned, buy not in October!!! I ride that horse for 7 innings, if mechanics look good 110 - 120 pitches. Let's say he gives up another 2 runs and it's 5 - 4 going into the 8th inning, I give the Twins offense a better than 50% chance of winning in that situation. I give them a 70% chance of at least tying the game up. But not down 10 - 4. What were they saving him for, the end is here!! Then I definitely start Odorizzi in game 2, that at least gives you the possibility of using him in game 5 if need be, why wouldn't you use your best two pitchers the most??? Hell Washington has used their best two pitchers as starters and out of the bullpen, I mean they haven't won anything yet, but at least they have a shot at it now. It's like I get saving these guys a little in June and July so as to get to October, but once in October pull out all of the stops and go for it. I mean Dobnak is a great story but game 2 in Yankee stadium?? And even if the Twins were still in it now Odorizzi is unavailable in game 5.

Wow, after looking at this list, I realized how futile the Twins have been for long stretches of time. There are some guys in the top 50 that wouldn't make the top 300 of other franchises. Shane Mack almost top 25, and he was one of my favorite players in the early 90's, but TK basically used him as a platoon player. But that took a lot of work, awesome job, that was awesome looking at some of those names from the past.

If Berrios can only squeeze out 4 innings we are done. I mean Odorizzi only averaged like 5 innings per game this year, so he ain't going to be the answer. Berrios needed to pitch 7, similar to Verlander pitching I think 8 yesterday. Twins bullpen is not constructed to pitch 5 or 6 innings per game. Even if Berrios gives up 3 - 4 runs you need to keep him out there. He is still better than all of the rest of the guys on the team, throw him, maybe he gives up another run or two, but with the Twins bats down 5 - 4 with and inning or two left, I give the Twins a better than 50% chance of winning. But start running the BP out there in the 5th and it ends up 10 - 4 blowout. We aren't saving these guys for the end of the year anymore, we are here.

If Berrios steps up and becomes an Ace. The Twins will win this series. Last time the Twins broke out to a nice lead but E San couldn't hold it. If Berrios can shut these guys down then he'll do it again during this series and I think the Twins will win it. If he doesn't then they will be in trouble.

Well the Twins are definitely underdogs, which seems really crazy for a team that won 101 games?? But maybe they can embrace that underdog mentality and go all the way, kinda like the Angels did back in 2002??

Yeah, I agree. You use him when the situation presents itself. You don't necessarily wait until the 9th.

And that all assumes that the starters do well. Those guys won't be going 6 if they give up 3 or 4 bombs or 3 or 4 walks. So if they pitch too carefully they will be walking a lot of guys and going deep into the counts. If they are agressive then they could get lit up. So it will be a tight rope walk.

I could be wrong, but I'm thinking what he meant by using Rogers as a flex option means that you use Rogers when you need him, or it will be a moot point and you won't need anyone to close out the 9th anyway?

I was hoping that they would have played Kepler, and Gonzalez today. Put the real lineup in for at least a couple of at bats just to help get some timing back for the playoffs, I am assuming that those guys will play in the playoffs? I mean have them play and then replace them in like the 4th or 5th inning. I am kinda worried about those guys since they haven't played in so long.

Didnt Kintzler play in the independent leagues also??

Easy decision. Could be at 430 to 440 Hrs by the end of next season.

I think every guy on the Twins roster has done something like that at some point in time. I agree that you handle that in house and remind him that of course every play is important and also that player life span doesn't last forever so take advantage of what you got when you have it so you have no regrets in the end. But doing something publicly does nothing for the concept of the team in the long run. You do something publicly when you are done with him and it's time to move on forever.

Yeah and it's possible that Bregman continues to get better. Devers is having a great year, but who knows at this point with him as he is so young. Maybe someone figures something out with him?

I think with a full season next year Sano could also be in the conversation. But next year. He missed a lot of games this year and still put up a lot of numbers.

. You also have Biggio, Guerrero, and Bichette all on the same team. I think Arraez would have a shot if he had around 400 AB's, but I just don't think he has played quite enough? JMO

I think Dobnak has no chance to be an effective starter over the long haul, I mean he was pitching in town ball or something a couple of years ago. As a reliever he won't get seen quite as much and has a shot at doing ok for stretches ah la Hildenberger. Smeltzer is another one that if given 30 starts I feel will eventually get crushed, although he could sprinkle in a good start here and there throughout the course of a season. The only one on that list that has a shot beyond Berrios, Odorizzi, and Pineda is Grateral. And if he isn't ready? TBD isn't any sort of a sure thing, had we signed Darvish, how well would that have worked out in year 1? Even year 2 has been only a little above average. He sure hasn't eaten a ton of innings, still need a solid bullpen pitching behind him. Now to think that Grateral is no sure thing, and TBD is no sure thing not to mention if we bring back Pineda then there is another guy your going to need for 40 games?? Gibson if inexpensive fits in that rotation decently. Obviously is has to be at a reasonable price.

I even think if you can get that 6 - 7 mill you do it for even two years, just to give him a little comfort knowing he is taken care of for a couple of years. The Twins will probably have to roll with him next year, but will have developed someone by the second year of that deal and 6 mill isn't a lot to walk away from if he stinks. But if he is average or even better than average then you got yourself a steal. I mean everyone was ohhing and aweing over Pineda in August, but he really struggled early on. He was not a sure thing until he became one?

. IDK, I think Nolan Ryan might have thrown 95 or so. Plus there were quite a few pitchers back then that threw really really hard, however, when or if they got hurt, they were then done, they didn't have the ability to come back a year later after arm surgery. That didnt really come about until the 90's where a lot of guys got that procedure done. I mean Nolan had another guy on his Houston staff that could dial it up to 95 when hed pitch. Then in Oakland and SF had Vida Blue and he would regularly hit 100. Clemens regurlarly threw 98, but those are only a few. There were a lot of starters back then that could really dial it up. Prob not so many in the BP, you know you had your Gossage's and such. But teams hit differently back then. Guys like Carew and such would just slap at those 100 mph fastballs that guys like Ryan threw. They'd get hits, I think a guy like Ryan would probably strike out 6000 to 7000 guys had his career started in say 2006 instead of 1966. No doubt the top atheletes are stonger these days, however the ball is also juiced etc... I think a lot of the pitching from the past would play today, but the hitters were different, so it didn't matter if there were a few soft throwers also because you knew you weren't going to get destroyed by them, also good D from the past would probably still play also, I mean I'm pretty sure Ozzie Smith would do just fine defensively. The game is different, so many of the things that were normal in the past aren't now. But it really doesn't mean that some of those dudes wouldnt still domintate the heck out of everyone nowadays, they'd have to adjust a little. But I really don't see a guy like Verlander going back to the 60's and 70's and then being able to win 400 games all of the sudden. He is one of the more dominate guys in today's game, but I don't see him matching up with Ryan and some of those other guys back then.

I'm curious as to why no one has snapped up Scooter Gennett since SF released him. I mean the Twins don't need him because they have Schoop and Arraez but dang you'd think someone would grab him. He hit .310 last year and OPS'd .847. 23 Hrs, 30 2Bs and 181 hits. You'd think someone would want a shot at that??

I think a lot of the regular rest was to give the bench guys some pt here and there so as to be ready in case they might be needed. Can't sit those guys all year and expect them to be able to play well when someone goes down.

I think after sweeping the double header yesterday they are now in the driver's seat for sure. I know I'm fairly confident now. Prob time to get some of those injured guys a little rest.

I definitely think they should offer a QA to Odorizzi and offer both Gibson and Pineda 2 year contracts. That way if Odo goes elsewhere they get something for him and I think they can get both Gibby and Pineda on the cheap which if they fail makes it a lot easier to move on from them rather than going out and getting that supposed sure thing and have them fail then trying to hold on to them because of some ridiculous contract. So if they lucked out and got all of those guys back. You go with Berrios Odorizzi Gibson Sign Wheeler Pineda, use a new guy like Grateral until Pineda is ready to go. Then the rest of the depth is there for when the inevitable injury happens. These guys minus Wheeler are all short term contract obligations, none of them are 4 - 5 year contract guys due to their issues. So realistically it fits the Twins mold currently. Next question, is Pineda eligible for the playoffs next year? Or is being suspended from this year's postseason good enough??