DocBauer

Always pulled foe the guy and championed him when he was close, and when some questioned him after a mediocre 2021. Felt I was right when an OK 2022 turned in to a great 2nd half. And then an absolutely miserable begining to last season lead to an even worse ending. I just don't see where he fits on the team unless he's kept as insurance due to injury or trade before the season starts. As I stated elsewhere, he's amongst the top of the "mostly likely" to be DFA if the Twins need a roster spot. Sometimes bad things happen to good guys in sports and they just get passed by. He might draw some interest as a 3rd in a package deal for a team hurting for LH bats that could use him in a utility role. By himself, I think he could get you a AA/A pen arm with some promise, or, another team's injury recovering pen arm in a swap of "returning to health" players.

If there's any way possible to afford Farmer and keep him, I'm doing it. Nice player, great teammate. Can play across the INF, is really solid against LHP, and provides not only depth but a possible platoon partner for Julien at 2B, were Polanco moved. I just don't know that the payroll will allow keeping both Polanco AND Farmer, so I think one probably goes at some point. Like the idea of an extension for Jeffers as well as rolling 1yr offers for Thielbar. I just don't know that I see room for Gordon, especially with no options left. But at only $1M, he's probably kept for now as depth/insurance if Kepler, or someone else, is moved. I just want to know who the real Gordon is; the 2nd half warrior of 2022 or the average player he was at the begining of that season/unplayable performer at the begining of '23. I think they make the offer, but he and a couple pen arms are at the top of DFA possibilities if the Twins start getting active and need 40 man spots.

Yeah, actually, not a fair comparison. Gallo was a 3B who didn't stay there long. Severino is an INF who really doesn't appear to have OF in his future. He's still only 24yo, so I don't know that I'd just give up on him being able to work hard and still play some 2B/3B going forward. His bat might be comparable to Gallo, but position wise, he's more of a younger version of Solano, who played those spots pretty well when younger, was workman like the past few seasons. How about we just concentrate on Severino as his own self? From what i read and hear, he's marginal/OK at 2B/3B, probably a best fit at 1B. Again, only 24yo, why can't he continue to work and be at least adequate to cover those spots? Let's hope for the best. As a hitter, he needs to curb his K's and work on BB. He's walked enough so far that his OB% is solid. He's also HIT enough to show that he doesn't completely lack bat to ball skills, unlike a somewhat similar profile to the powerful Sabato, who just can't HIT a lick. Gallo had power and some OB ability, but seldom HIT as a pro. The idea of power and OB ability with high K numbers does not mean a bad player. In fact, it can mean a dynamic player! IF, said player can also HIT, and NOT be a .179-.200 AVG hitter. There's just not enough value there to be anything of great value on any sort of consistent basis. Reverse example, SOMETHING clicked with Kepler in 2023 to begin just hitting the damn ball hard! And suddenly he was producing like he hadn't in years. Severino hits the ball HARD. That's why he's maintained a solid AVG so far. IF he can lower the K rate some, raise his BB % just a little, and keep hitting the ball HARD, good things might just happen. Again he's been improving each year in the system, and is only 24yo at AAA now. He doesn't have to be Gallo, or anyone else. He just has to be himself. He gets to begin 2024 at AAA, the highest level now reached before the Show. If he can just "settle in" and work and adapt and just nudge his K and BB numbers a little in the right direction while maintaining his hard contact ability, the Twins might have a former HIGH international signed prospect who has run the gambit to being right on the precipice of something rather unique: a switch hitter who can HIT, and hit with power from both sides of the plate. I have ZERO illusions he's ready to begin 2024 at the ML level. But I think he's got a chance to make an appearance and get himself ready for 2025. There's hope and like here. I just want him to be himself, and forget comparisons.

I LOVE prospects. I love the draft, love prospect lists, and follow the milb system very closely. But I seldom, if ever, CALL for a prospect to be given a starting spot at the begining of the season. (Which is part of the reason I really miss larger expansion of September rosters so guys can get their feet wet). I recall a couple years ago when the Twins acquired Martin from the Jays and he finished in AA...where he started...with OK but not earth shattering numbers but a lot of people were penciling him in to a starting role the next season due to, I guess, prospect and draft position fever. Now, I soured some on Martin, have now gotten very excited about him, but even with a strong end to '22, a great AFL, and a good half year of 2023, I'd rather see another option to begin in CF besides him next season. It would be different if the Twins were re-building, rather than looking to contend. And that's where there's a real difference: the intention of the team. I screamed to bring up Wallner and Julien last season ASAP. But both of those guys were not only tearing it up in AAA, but had great years the season before, and Wallner had about a half season of AAA in 2022. I didn't want or expect them to begin 2023 in the majors. But I did think they were ready, or at least deserving of a chance, a couple months in to last year. I'm actually thinking Martin just might be the starting CF very soon, depending on a huge turnaround in Buxton's health fortunes. But because of that possibility, and a shortened 2023, I think the Twins are better, and deeper, with someone else to be that temporary/fill-in CF like Taylor was last year, and let Martin gain some more experience. I think Camargo has a chance to be a really nice 2nd catcher with power at the ML level. But I sure don't want to find out tomorrow by moving on from Vazquez at this point. (I mean, I like him, but he's not the 2nd coming of Mauer). I love Lee and think he's going to be outstanding, whether he or Lewis plays 3B or 2B I don't care. But I have no illusions that Lee, and his 1yr and 2 months of milb experience, is 100% ready for a starting job from day one in 2024. I believe there are ALWAYS opportunities for prospects to get their shot in a given season, and some do need to go down and come back up again. There's no shame in that. I think "forcing the issue" is just a way of saying perform at a high level and BE READY for when you get your shot. You want to be THE NEXT GUY up when opportunity knocks, not be passed over. But a team's intent with a young player is not only what's best for the team's future, and the prospect's, but team needs, and just what kind of ceiling does the kid actually have? For example, I've been pretty vocal in support of the late blooming Michael Helman. Why? After a slow start to his career, he's been on a consistent 3yr run of performing well, and getting better each season. And he's already proven himself quite well at AAA. He can play 7 spots, can hit, get on OB a bit, and has power as well as speed. The Twins seem to like him also, that's why he was a non-roster invite to ST to begin '23. Unfortunately, he had a bad hamstring and wasn't able to participate. Once his season began, he had a concussion. Later on, he had a bad shoulder due to a dive/fall. But all around that, he pretty much raked at AAA. But I don't think anyone sees him as the next great, "look what we found" position player who is ever going to be a full time, regular for the Twins. But he might be a really nice, versatile, RH power/speed guy similar to Castro. And at 27yo, he's probably developed as much as he is going to, and if the Twins don't add someone better due to budget issues, he might be a really nice add to the lineup from day one as a rookie role player. Different agendas for different players at different times in their careers. I'm very excited for Lee and Martin, only a little less so for the possibility of Severino as a nice piece to the team. Again, I think Camargo has a chance to be a solid ML catcher. And all of these guys are going to get their opportunities. But I'm sure not looking for them to begin the season with the Twins...barring injury or mad/crazy performance...over solid veterans, even some who might be on a 1yr deal.

Spring ball and hilights have shown me this kid is for real when it comes down to defense. I might be mistaken, but wasn't hid overall quad slash line better in the 2nd half of the year after a really bad 1st month? Does anyone have the breakdown? Thing is, Gold Glove or not, offensive improvement or not, he just turned 21yo. He could play the entire 2024 season back at Cedar Rapids as a 21yo to continue work on his offense, and would still be below league average age. He's got a really bright future if he can just be about league average as a batter. And there remains some pop/power potential we're just starting to see.

A little worried about Helman as well as Prato. But being a late bloomer and missing half the year hopefully makes him self. Good/versatile role players are valuable. Think Kiersey is safe with only about a month or so of AAA. Only thing that surprises is no surprises, I guess. Seems like every year there's at.least one arm that makes you go "hmm" but not this year.

What none of us knows is what the organization thinks about him. I mean, did he figure something out at AAA to indicate his finish to the season is for real? If so, whatever he's figured out gives more value to him within the organization now, and going forward, than he had the bulk of 2023. Why would anybody want him? He's a former top prospect, LH bat with power and a good arm in the OF. He's struggled some, to be sure. But he's also flashed, often before becoming injured, (twice but each different), or sick, which happened last year, IIRC. There's virtually nothing on the FA market to match him, so why not a young-ish, inexpensive, former 1st rounder and top prospect that might be ready to bloom with regular playing time? There is no logjam of corner OF at the moment. The Twins might want to hold on to Larnach for depth, and a belief that maybe the last half of 2023 offered real encouragement going forward. But he could also be a potential steal as part of a package for a team looking for LH power. Not close to midnight yet. Don't think the sun has even set.

Not saying I want either of them moved, but Polanco would seem to be the more valuable overall, and is the more readily replaceable of the two. Larnach has stepped forward as hoped yet, Martin is more of a natural top of the order hitter, we really have no clue at this point what Gordon is/might be, and most everyone else is going to be at AA or lower. So I don't see moving Kepler unless a crazy offer is made. But speaking of Larnach, if the LH OF situation is as bad as it appears, does his value as part of a package suddenly jump?

As per the OP, NOT advocating cost cutting is a good thing, BUT, who might benefit as a result? Yes to both Martin and Severino, but I think Martin in closer to being ready. Martin began to hit and perform at the end of 2022 and had a real breakthrough in the AFL. Just under 4 months of playing time in 2023 is not what Martin needed, but he did great. Low K rate, high BB rate, a little more power than previously shown, has me feeling confident he can/will hit at the ML level, though how good early is to be seen. Severino is sort of the opposite. He's always going to K a lot, but he also takes enough BB to have a .350 OB% so far. And he makes enough bat to ball contact, with his power, to actually HIT, which is something Sabato can't do, for instance. Both only 24yo. Camargo I have a good feeling about. Probably never hit better than .240 ish, and and OB in the .290-.310 area, but good defense and good power. Also, I believe, only 24yo. But Miranda, despite not being a rookie, is still a young player looking for opportunity and it will probably present itself. I'm still on the Helman bandwagon. He's a 7 position player with speed and power, a RH version of Castro. He's a late developer who checks off every box but one: opportunity. Kerisey is a little older, LH version of Martin. I'm betting he's not ready until he gets a couple more months in at AAA, but he's interesting as a 4th OF, quasi platoon piece. If Farmer is gone, does that open up a spot for Prato to join in competition for a role along with Helman? Again, can hit, get OB, run some, has some pop, and can play everywhere. BTW, how come nobody mentioned Lee? Top prospect or not, a lower payroll means sooner opportunity.

Switch hitter, though better from the left side, who is a quality bat to ball hitter for AVG, contact, solid OB%, and 30 double 20HR power. Sound like Polanco? It is. But it would also describe Brooks Lee. And that's why Polanco...who remains controllable for 2 more years...might be traded. I don't bieve the Twins WANT to trade Polanco. But he's got good value. And while Lee might not be quite ready yet, he's pretty close. And in the meantime, Julien and Farmer could provide a quality quasi platoon at 2B, along with Castro, and Farmer can also be a valuable utility INF, along with Castro. Moving Polanco also frees up $10M to use at 1B, or a RH OF, or whatever SP is eventually signed or traded for. Not saying it's going to happen, but he's a pretty obvious candidate to be in demand, possibly moved, doesn't really weaken the lineup with his absence considering the alternative options, and may help strengthen another area of the club. I don't see any way Kepler gets moved without hurting the club. I'm banking on 4 months of the "new and improved" Kepler isn't a SSS or mirage. But if he's moved, who takes his spot? Acquiring a replacement via FA or trade replaces him, it doesn't ADD to the team. And I don't see a ready made replacement in the system unless Larnach takes a big step forward, as Rodriguez, Rosario, and others are too far away yet.

Despite the high K numbers, he's hit a very consistent .270-.280 at his various steps. It's been pointed out that his BABIP has been a bit high, and yet, it's generally been maintained. I'd suggest that's largely because he hits the ball HARD, and seems to hit roughly the same from both sides of the plate. So while he may not walk as much as would be liked, and may always K too much, he's also shown the ability to actually HIT the baseball. Compare that to someone like Sabato who walks a lot, but simply CAN'T HIT the ball. I thi k he's got a real shot, as long as the K rate doesn't rise further, and really, should come down some to be truly acceptable. Having reached AAA at 24yo, will those numbers now improve with experience and maturity? I can see him traded as part of a deal for an arm. I can also see him continuing to play some 2B/3B for versatility, but mostly 1B for St Paul and being possibly ready mid season, if not earlier, to be one of the first "next man up" recalls. Another team might really like his potential in a deal. But it would be nice to hold on to him as well.

For a couple $M to play against LHP and be a late game sub, OK. I'm out otherwise. Little power, not much in the way of SB, I'd rather have Taylor back...probably healthier this year...even with some regression.

Priorities for the Twins to get ready for 2024: 1] Quality SP, preferably controlled and not a 1yr, to "replace" Gray, as it were. 2A] A CF option as protection for Buxton either not being able to play, or very limited. Hard to trust Castro or a group of rookies with that task. 2B] Add a quality RH bat for a corner OF or 1B spot. Like to be greedy and have someone who could do both, but that's probably wishful thinking. Nice to have that RH bat and possible coverage for Kirilloff just in case issues with his health remain. 3] Even with the possibility of Varland going to the pen, and the hope of Canterino commanding a spot in the near future, the pen could really use Pagan back...can't believe I just typed that...or similar. I don't know how #1 gets done at this point other than trade, or a hopeful return to previous form of someone like Giolito, or just "settling" for a solid #3 arm. But whoever they get will still cost $ on the budget. I don't care what RH bat they get, OF or 1B, and it makes sense. But doesn't CF have to come first? Does a team that wants to win their division and make noise in the playoffs just trust CF to a collection of rookies? I like the idea of someone like Turner as that 1B option as he can also cover 2B/3B a couple times a month. But how much can you afford when you have to move on from Farmer just to get $30M to spend and reach a payroll of $140M? Probably going to have to trust some non roster arms for pen help...in addition to what's already on hand...and hope for another Stewart. This is going to be hard.

A $140M payroll allows about $23M to add to the roster. Farmer gone pushes that number to $30M. The Twins have yet to sign a FA for $20M+ and for more than a couple of years. Not saying they won't, and haven't tried a couple of times, but unless the payroll stays at $155M...or goes up...through some unknown expectation, it's not going to be this year. That leaves some sort of trade...and that player will still have some $ cost...or a lesser FA like Wacca, Giolito, etc. That allows some yet to be determined amount to add SOMEONE. Is that a 1B? A RH OF? A CF option to hedge against Buxton and not turn the spot over to a potential rookie audition? I get the love for Castro, and I like him too. He's depth in the OF AND the INF. But I don't think he's a full time CF, or even 50/50 share time CF. He's a good backup and fill in there. Not tryibg to be a downer, but the idea of adding some big, powerful bat or mega $20M plus arm is just very, very doubtful for 2024. Could a bat fall in to our lap late in FA the way Cruz did? Absolutely. And that would have the Twins rethinking their approach for sure. But right now it's SP first priority, and then a CF or other spot bat that's affordable and can fit a need.

He's actually a very good fit. He's still an excellent hitter with power. He covers 1B if/when AK is out, or at least platoons there with him. He can also split his time between DH and the occasional 2B/3B game. And in reality, just like you need more than 5 starters over the course of a season, you certainly play more than 13 position players. So you can make him fit in that way as well. (Buxton alone, unfortunately, will be on the IL 40-60 ganes). But how do you afford to sign him? If the payroll is $140M-ish, and stands at $117M at the moment, thats about $23M to add to the roster, and you still need to add a rotation arm first and foremost. Even if you trade for one, there is a financial cost involved. Then, you need a reliable alternative for CF, unless you are just going to trust it to Helman, Martin, or Kiersey right off the bat as the #2 guy. I suppose Farmer could be gone, and that's another $6M to put in to the pot. But I don't see how there's room to add Turner after you take care of the other 2 priorities. So then what? We remove a good, important bat like Polanco to add another one? I'd call that a wash, not an improvement. I like the Turner add a lot. I just don't see a financial fit unless some things break just right.

I've been thinking about this part of the conversation all day. And I have a thought, but first, I have to repeat the basic math I posted earlier: If we consider the approximation of 52% of income is spent on payroll as generally accurate, losing $55M from Bally means a loss of $28M from the $155M payroll of 2023. Now, WHATEVER new TV/streaming type of deal/deals they come up with, should be anywhere from $25M to $35M. I think that's feasible. So let's split the difference and say they come up with a total of $30M via HOWEVER/WHATEVER they come up with. Based on the 52% principle, they get back $15M back. Simple math says they would "lose" $13M. Now, IMO, that isn't and shouldn't be devastating. (Especially for a team coming off an exciting season that shouldn't be cutting, but that's a different discussion at the moment). So, in theory, that leaves a $140-142M payroll to work with, which is in keeping with the numbers Falvey stated. SO, with NOTHING set in stone yet, no deal inked yet, Falvey publicly speaks about worst case scenario. Why do so this early? Because it not only buffers public perception early, BUT, when a deal/deals come to fruition, and the payroll "only" dips to $140-142M ish, suddenly the FO looks almost like heroes as they STILL had $ to work with as today they sit around $117M with a playback of 2023 as the roster stands today. So that's approximately $23M to spend, BEFORE, Farmer or Polanco or anyone was moved to free up any additional dollars. Any move of such opens up another $6-10M to work with. That's more $ for FA, or even open up payroll for a trade acquisition, PLUS additional FA possibilities. NOTHING that is earth shattering, but WAY better perception and reality of $125M. So while I will lead the stampede that says ownership should be stepping forward to AT LEAST keep payroll the same, if not add at least a little bit, based on opportunity and open window, I'm just wondering if the comments made were to just set a floor for public opinion that will change the emotional and intellectual perspective when it turns out they will actually cut much less than expected, OR, a SUDDEN announcement that ownership will keep payroll the same. I'm just NOT a conspiracy guy. And I don't think there is some secret agenda here. I'm just wondering if this might have been a "get in front of it" scenario and prepare people for the worst while we're still trying to figure out how to make this work for the better???

Honestly, this is about what I thought/wanted even before the news of a possible/probably payroll cut. My exceptions were that I really wanted to go bigger than Giolito with Nola, Gray, Wheeler, or Rodriguez. I like Kiermaier in CF, even though he's LH. I had some hope for a solid $5-6M arm for the pen to hedge on Stewart and Alcala in particular, but with Varland there....(not 100% convinced he's going there this soon)...said arm might be unnecessary. Would be great to add a solid, not overly expensive corner OF who bats RH, but there's no room unless you just allow/assume someone is always hurt and on the IL so you're rotating guys in and out.

Lee would be of great interest. Third time's the charm, right? But if the Twins had $14M to spend, they would look to a rotation arm first, IMO, though it will probably come via trade. And would they then want to add Lee at $14M as a second major addition while they still have Buxton, (in at least a hopeful part time role), and Martin SEEMINGLY ready? Or would they want to go with a less expensive 1yr option? Merrifield hasn't been good in 2yrs, IMO. Not sure I'm expecting a turn around in 2024. Absolutely love the idea of Turner or Santana and 1yr deal for something relatively inexpensive. ($12M ???) Both provide a veteran presence and help at 1B with Kirilloff. Turner could probably handle 3B here and there. But roster construction wise, what's more important, a 1B/DH RH bat or a corner OF? Not sure there's room for both. A healthy Brantley is a nice ballplayer. And he's probably got some life left. At least one good season I'd wager. But where does he play? We don't want or necessarily need a full time DH unless he's pretty special, and we don't need another LH corner OF since we already have two there. Just not sure I see any fits here. Turner or Santana on the cheap for 1yr. MAYBE Merrifield on a 1yr for depth and options if Polanco was moved. That's about it.

Of these 3, Lopez is the only one who I'm interested in. Velocity and pure stuff are there if the Twins can just harness it a bit more. Not interested in Fujinami unless he comes really cheap. I mean, his "getting better" as the season went along was still bad.

A lot to unpack here, but oh well. 1] If you subscribe to the theory that ownership is cheap, there is nothing I or anyone else, can say to convince you otherwise. If paying all milb players and coaches and all team personnel through covid, laying no one off, keeping payroll at almost exactly 17%...which is right about their rank as a market...and raising payroll for just about every season since this FO took over doesn't convince you to at least re-consider your opinion, then we are just going to disagree and call it a day. 2] If we want to discuss any sort or natural or expected regression in payroll based on the past few years, I'm going to either disagree with you, or state you might be saying the right thing for the wrong reasons. For instance, if a group of FA heading out the door, a bunch of payroll coming off the books, and another group of prospects about ready for a job in 2024 simply lowers the payroll floor in a natural way, we are in agreement. That's what happened/is happening. But that also brings us to #3.... 3] We can, have, and probably will, debate about the FO/ownership being prepared to see a pending issue with the end of the Bally deal. Knowing it was going to happen has given them opportunity for some time to look at other options. However, that doesn't mean those options are necessarily lined up and ready to go at this point. It still takes that 2nd or 3rd party to sign on with the Twins. To our collective knowledge, I would think, we are unaware that any sort of agreement is pending. If you don't see a trend across the country of people cutting the cord and cable TV, as we've known it, changing or going away, you aren't paying attention. I work for a telecommunications company in the Midwest and I can assure you things are changing rapidly. So the $55M being lost by the end of the Bally deal is real money. The money doesn't just magically appear from someone else when that contract expired. The issue, IMO, is not how prepared the Twins are or aren't, it's about the deal...with whoever...when the dust settles. It would be very doubtful the Twins suddenly find another $55M deal on their doorstep tomorrow. I would think something as low as $25M is possible, but it could be as high as $35M, either in A solo deal, or perhaps a combination of broadcast and streaming. For the sake of argument, let's split the difference and call it $30M. The generally accepted amount of income to be used for payroll is 52%, give or take a little. That's $28M the Twins just lost. Now, 52% of $30M is approximately $15M, to partially replace what was lost. That's $13M NET lost, which might lower payroll from the $155M spend in 2023, but isn't enough to doom the team, OR account for some low end $120M payroll. If it does, someone in charge of the Twins should be fired for not finding a better option for broadcast agreements and revenue streams to offset losses and grow the financial structure of the organization. 4] If the Twins drop the payroll to, oh, IDK, $135-140M but find a solid arm, grab a CF option to help cover there, maybe a decent RH bat and win 88-92 games because they still have a lot of talent, and young talent, growing and developing I couldn't care less about the actual payroll. And I'm just not going to freak out, today, November 7th, until I see how things play out. 5] I'm also in the camp that says holding on to the prospects is generally more important as payroll drops, even if it's just a year or two. I'm not saying DON'T trade. I'm just saying a young player or arm might be trusted a little sooner than initial plans might have been laid for. I do think one of Polanco or Farmer might have to go. But there are options to help replace them. Kepler would be much harder to find a replacement for as there isn't a ready made one at this time, so I think he stays. Might see Martin, Lee, and guys like Prato earlier than initially anticipated. That's not necessarily a bad or debilitating thing. Going to be a very, very interesting offseason.

Sorry, not sure I understand the form, as I've never used it previously, and don't have time to investigate at the moment. But I heard so much last season the Mariners need offense, were short from the left side, and have a hole at 2B they'd like to fill. And now they've potentially lost Teoscar Hernandez to FA. So I keep wondering about Polanco and Larnch and maybe a lower level prospect like Urbina for one of Logan Gilbert or George Kirby. The Twins lose a hell of a player in Polanco, still inexpensive the next 2yrs, they lose depth and potential in Larnach who might just need opportunity and a change of scenery, and a top international signing who has talent but hasn't put it together yet. Seattle gets offense, potential future offense, and reportedly has some pitching depth to be able to withstand losing a solid young starter. Fair?

Couldn't be more pleased with Rosario. He started a little slow, and has really come on strong. He's hitting, hitting with power, won the HR derby, as a 21yo coming from A+ ball. It's always been my understanding that very few A level players go to the AFL, but I could be wrong there. Despite his penchant for K's...which need to be curbed...he also walks a lot, maintaining a high OB %. You can live with the K's with that power and a good number of walks, as long as he isn't Mendoza line with the AVG like a Gallo. It's my understanding he's a little rough defensively, with a solid arm, and hope is he can round in to a generally solid defender. Kind of hard to not be excited about Wallner, Martin getting very close, Rosario and Rodriguez at AA, and Jenkins hopefully hot on their heals. I don't know what to make of Carr. He's already 26yo and barely pitched at AA, though he was good for Cedar Rapids. He doesn't appear to be a SO type arm, but seems to keep hitters in check. I have to believe he's being looked at as a LH pen arm who can go a couple innings at a time. But I'm not sure there's much more there. Pretty disappointed in the other arms. None of them are top prospects, but I think there's at least some solid pen possibilities there, but they sure don't look like it in the AFL. A couple jumped in from A ball, so maybe this is really just a challenge, and a learning situation for them Cossetti has been a huge disappointment. I don't think his AFL diminishes his season at all. Maybe he's getting worn down? I think he's really there to work on his defense. I just hoped/expected more.

So yeah, if we only look at the last 3 years, not very good. I would have liked to look further back for a longer, and I think, more accurate picture. I think the grade for 2023 is too low though. Having Correa back was huge, IMO, from defense, to leadership, to a change in perception of the organization as a whole. Solano was a tremendous value, despite a somewhat limited OPS. He was streaky at times, but generally sound and had some big moments. And I still like Vazquez, despite the unexpectedly poor offense. His game calling and defense were still intact, and that's the most important part of why he was brought in. So I'm a solid B for 2023 and a rebound from Vazquez probably raises the grade going forward. I have faith in a big 2024 season from Correa as long as the plantar issue is resolved over the winter.

Wow! Just.....wow!

Explain what exactly? The guy had a poor 2022. In 2019, '20, and '21 he was a top of the rotation starter and got Cy Young votes. He stunk in 2022. Through 21 starts for a bad Chicago team in 2023 he was throwing well, just not quite as good as that previous 3 year stretch. But because he had a poor 2022 and a bad 2 months to end 2023 going through a breakup and being moved twice in 30 days means he can't bounce back at 29yo to be the guy he was in 19/20/21/most of 23? Is that the point?