Beast

Because Gordon’s not that good. Hes not undervalued by Twins fans, he’s become ridiculously overvalued by many. He’s a fine bench guy. Not a guy you want batting in the heart of the lineup and playing everyday LF (like last year…..when we were an awful team). He’s not especially great defensively. He doesn’t hit for all that much power. He doesn’t get on base all that much. Minor league track record is very uninspiring. An empty .270 BA and 50 RBI being your marquee season isn’t anything to write home about. He’s a JAG (just a guy). Nothing there to indicate any sort of star potential. He had a fine year….for a bench guy. We probably just saw his ceiling. Buxton, Gallo, and Kepler have track records of success in the MLB (although spotty). Gordon hasn’t been particularly good at any point of his professional career at any level. If I have my pick between the 4 players, Nick Gordon is the last selected. I do agree with your frustration with this team’s roster construction. But, Nick Gordon isn’t the answer to anything. Great kid, brings energy, all that, but just not that good.

This move makes sense if you were aggressive in the free agent/trade markets and were actively trying to win. Commit to the rebuild, or commit to winning. This middling crap is just an attempt to con fans into thinking you did something so attendance doesn’t tank and manipulate service time of guys like SWR/Varland. Just grow a spine and commit to something, for God’s sake. This is why we always suck. It is possible they still make a big splash in the trade market, so we’ll see. But, if we get to Spring Training and they’ve done nothing but Gallo, Wacha, and some other crap….they deserve every bit of criticism they get.

The guy has accumulated over 20 WAR in 585 games. That’s .035 per game. Joe Mauer was at .030 for his career. Aaron Judge and Mike Trout are around .05 per game. Bryce Harper is around .031. Saying he a bust and he can’t put together a good full season is absurd. He’s responsible for more wins in half a season than almost everybody else is in a full one. Alex Bergman had 4.5 WAR in 2022. Rafael Devers 4.4. Luis Arraez 4.4. George Springer 4.0. Clad Guerrero 4.0. Byron Buxton 4.0. He had .5 higher WAR than Matt Chapman in 2022. 1.2 higher than Acuna, Yelich, Wander Franco. 1.5 more than Bryce Harper. Thats significant value added. It’s just a fact that if he plays a full season (the way he’s played historically), that he would be near the top of the MLB in WAR. You’re flawed perception doesn’t change that.

I’m optimistic, but very cautiously. Im a huge fan of his. The deal they signed is still a great deal, even with the injuries - those complaining about that will hopefully stop after seeing this years free agent market. He’ll miss some time. I no longer hold out hope in that regard. I just hope it’s not excessive and not in September/October. We’ll see.

Kirilloff being this low on the list is a bit of a disaster for this franchise. Talk about not being able to have nice things. Kubel, Mauer, Morneau were all derailed by injuries….now Buxton, and we’re going down that road with Lewis, and Kirilloff.

Austin might not even be the 13th best prospect. I have a hard time with Jeffers being this high on the list also, but I get it. Prielipp and SWR are very intriguing in so many ways. Should be a lot of fun to watch.

Buxton is the only one with a remote chance at one of these awards. I no longer have faith he can play enough to win one, but the outside chance is there. One could see him staying healthy and playing platinum glove level CF with 90 XBHs, ending up at some ridiculous WAR around 10. Remote, but at least seems possible. Areaz has no shot. Yordan Alvarez hit .306 with a million HRs and RBIs and finished 3rd. Arraez would need to add a significant amount of power to his line to even enter the bottom end of the conversation. We saw his ceiling, IMO. He’s already dealing with a broken down body. I don’t see him being healthy all year. Very good player, but overvalued by Twins fans and has way too many things working against him (power, defense, health). Maeda might not be in the top 3 on the team for potential Cy Young candidates. But, none of them really have a shot, so it feels like a waste of time even typing it. Im not especially high on Wallner. You never know, I could be wrong. Maybe he’ll throw together a season like we saw recently from Gallo. But, I’d be shocked. The league will adjust to his successful debut, and I expect some struggles in 2023. With the “depth” we have in the corner OF spots, he might not even stay in the rotation. If things were wide open for him to work through some struggles, I may feel differently about his chances at an award.

Wouldn’t trade a pitcher who has never been healthy enough in his career to surpass 100 innings for a 5+ WAR shortstop (and second/third baseman) under significant team control? Because we have Kyle Farmer and a guy who may not even be a shortstop because he had 12 good games in the majors? Some of these takes just blow my mind. If the Padres would do that deal (Ober straight up), it’s a no brainer. Alas, there’s no way in hell they would give up such a great asset for an injured pitcher. No FO would be incompetent enough to trade high-end assets for a pitcher with health issues, right?

You know the franchise’s PR machine has done their job phenomenally when their fan base thinks all of these deals are too risky. Not only that - some openly applauding them for doing nothing (wow, what a bullet dodge). Leaves me with so many questions. What the heck are we even doing here then? People just want to perpetually be in rebuilding mode, and only the sign the bottom-barrel, 0 risk deals? Why? If you won’t sign premium players for top dollar, and won’t sign second tier player because their too risky….do you just never sign anybody? What are we saving the money for, exactly? Do you think they’re adding it to the budget in the future? Finally, what the heck do you expect to get for less in the free agent market?

I have a really hard time seeing Lewis as the long-term answer at shortstop.

I hope none of you proclaiming Bauer the worst human ever have any Puckett memorabilia. I may not know the full back story. Not expressing an opinion on Bauer or whether he should be given another chance. But, come on. There’s a statue outside of our stadium gates of a guy who viciously beat and strangled his wife with a phone cord. He cornered and sexually assaulted a waitress in a restaurant bathroom and got the star treatment out of being convicted by a jury (and if you have the stones to do that, likely not a one time thing). Fairly common knowledge that he’s a womanizer and beater, sexual deviant, and impulsive substance addict/abuser. Some worked up about Bauer likely have a picture with Puckett’s statue in the archive of the social media du jour. Stones, glass houses, etc. Not seeing the merit in trying to virtue signal and claim a moral high ground while worshipping Puckett like a god. You get zero social credit points.

Why would they need pitching? Falvey is the pitcher whisperer. They have so many finely tuned and developed pitchers banging on Target Field’s doors that it looks like a walking dead episode. In all seriousness, I don’t get it. The only guy that has proven he can be good and stay healthy is Ryan. Everyone else had injury issues (Ober, Mahle, Maeda, Paddack, Winder, even Sonny to a certain extent). Varland and Woods Richardson are unknown commodities (sorry, Varlands 4.4 FIP in 5 starts isn’t giving me early Francisco Luciano flashbacks). The bullpen looks set up for another dumpster fire. Duran is the only reliable guys in there. Maybe Jax. Theilbar is about ready to collect social security. Lopez, Pagan, and Megill absolutely stink. Alcala and Moran are promising but shouldn’t be counted on as back-end bullpen anchors. The more I stew on it this off-season the more I realize how poorly run this whole operation is (but muh spreadsheets and analytics!), and the more I feel like I don’t really care if I ever see a Twins game again.

Well, so much for the “we tried and finished second,” narrative that I knew was fraudulent from the beginning. This tells me one of two things: 1) This is one I suspected all along. The Twins didn’t want this sign Carlos Correa. They wanted to be in the negotiations for PR purposes, but have known from the jump they weren’t signing him. This is why they acquired Farmer in what seemed to be a head scratcher if they were all-in on Correa. If they wanted him badly and he wanted to come back, they could easily afford to sign him (vs. the $285). They intentionally find an offer they know will be surpassed, and leak them to the press. or 2) Correa didn’t want to come back here. This is plausible to me also. This franchise has loser engrained so deeply into its DNA, that he knew he had no chance of winning anything over those 10 years. They will never take a significant risk in an attempt to bring a championship here. It’s nothing but fear and loathing over a “bad contracts.” Of course he’s going to publicly say he likes it here. Doesn’t make it even remotely true. Maybe this was all done in good faith by both parties. But, I just don’t see that as likely. If so, it further demonstrates the incompetence of this Front Office to put their eggs in one basket and come up short multiple times.

This seems to be widely considered a successful outcome. Which, just further solidifies my opinion that they need to bring quality players in via free agency if they want to do more than pop up, win a crap division, and be summarily dismissed from the playoffs while offering no resistance once or twice a decade. The development of a talent rich farm went extremely well….and we still stink. Yet, many want to continue kick this can down the road…”the time will be right in a few years when the NEXT prospect group is here.” When they’re here, it will be the NEXT group, and so on.

A step back isn’t an option, it’s an inevitability. They never had all their eggs in the Correa basket. They just wanted us to think that. How do I know? They offered 10 years 285. How that relates to historical Twins’ contracts, etc. doesn’t matter. They weren’t even in the ballpark. If they put all of their eggs in that basket, they’re completely incompetent. You can’t reach these heights in the baseball world and be that idiotic. This was intentional. It’s a tactic we’ve seen them employ numerous times now. They “focus” on one player. Come in second place. Let the whole world know they tried so hard they almost died. Then “oops, all that’s left is Joey Gallo on a 1 year deal.” Theres just no way a reasonable person thinks that deal gets the job after seeing all of the other SS deals out there. They knew it wouldn’t. Another dead giveaway this was BS from the beginning: the Pohlads expresses their burning desire to bring Correa back. They just wanted it so dang badly. Honestly guys. They’re seriously serious about spending so much money…..Thou doth protest too much. Looks to me like they’re desperately trying to cut salary and convince fans they’re doing otherwise at the same time. Aka, swindling us. There’s a fair amount of people who buy it. Some even openly gaslight and coerce others through insults into thinking the attempts were legit, and that they’re just geniuses staying the only path the victory. But, many are rightfully seeing through this charade and are getting fed up. We’ve watched this same story for 30 years. They’re dangerously close to decimating this base more than already have. Levels of fan apathy never before seen here. Mix that in a bowl with an economy going down the crapper…..that stadium is going to be empty.

How dare you? The Twins are a small market team (which definitely is not a self-fulfilling prophecy) that made a genius move by not signing an elite MLB player. Looking at it any differently means you have no idea how to make other people think you’re a good ball guy.

One of the few media members left not so concerned about their place in clubhouse postgame buffet line that they refuse to criticize when due. Those upset about Patrick being there are the same who legitimately believe the Twins are better off signing only league minimum contracts until some imaginary magical star alignment in the distant future. Interesting.

Lol. No they’re not. After dozens of reports like this over the years, and only winding up the rotting corpse of Josh Donaldson for peanuts….these reports should be met only with ridicule.

I’d be happier with them blowing it up at this point instead of continuing with their embarrassing charade. Nobody in their right mind could possibly think this is a competitive roster. I’m not supporting a half-assed attempt at competing (which is their style). I’m more likely to praise the front office and support the team for growing a spine, admitting they’ve screwed the proverbial pooch roster-wise, and blow it up. This isn’t just Correa that P’s me off, as everyone seems to think. It’s not that they didn’t pay $350 over 13 years. I get that. But, they’ve made a series of awful decisions over a number of years that painted them into a corner where the only move was to get themselves into a bidding war they never had a chance in for PR purposes. Leaking reports of these “offers,” etc. knowing from day 1 they weren’t willing to enter the same universe as real teams (no, I don’t consider the Twins a real MLB team, they’re a punching bag. The fall guy. An NPC). This was BS from day 1. The lead up and sickening bald-faced lip service during the process to try and trick as many fans as possible into sticking around is what pisses me off. Quit the constant twisting and manipulative PR crap, and just do you damn job. Then explain to fans what your actual job is and what you’re actually doing. People respect honesty. These dirty used car salesman tactics the Pohlads keep troweling out disgusts me. I have more respect for franchises like the Royals who don’t try to convince their fan base they’re “all-in,” etc. I never want to hear the terms “all-in” or “compete” or “win” out of these losers mouths every again. The incompetence is just incredible. From top to bottom.

New to Twins fandom?

Nothing, probably. They’ve run this thing into the ground. Nobody cares anymore (or, very few, anyway). They’ve lost the trust of the fan base with the “we’ll go all in when the time is right,” premise. People know they’re swindlers. They just don’t make moves to win baseball. It’s all PR, profit maximization, etc. They didn’t sign Correa because they thought it was lead to success. It was a deal with any easy that they could market and turn into a quick money grab until he opted out and walked. A couple times a decade when they look like they have a real chance, they get left behind at the trade deadline and absolutely obliterated in the playoffs. One of the richest ownership groups in the league once had many fans convinced that spending will destroy the franchise. There’s clearly still many left with severe Stockholm syndrome left that drone that mantra like zombies. But, for many the spell is wearing off. Frankly, they need a wake up call. I hope that place is embarrassingly empty. For one, I won’t invest a dollar until they prove they’re willing to (no, signing a washed up Josh Donaldson, and a once in a lifetime one year deal for Correa after a pandemic, doesn’t negate that fact). There is just no hope, here. Their absolute commitment to being non-competitive and sucking every dollar they can since buying the team has ruined baseball in Minnesota. They lied to our faces in order for us to allow them syphon money from the tax base for their stadium. Again, only to rip us off for a financial windfall for the family. They’ve been one of the most inept franchises in the MLB since that place opened. Then, on top of it, they’re so damn tone deaf and out of touch with reality, they they make some big event out of announcing another massive nepotistic move. “Guys, we gave Joe Pohlad a lofty title that he didn’t earn! Everybody applaud him!” For me, it’s almost getting to the point where the Pohlads are supervillains. Easily on the list of worst ownership groups in sports. I’m terms of results (have they ever made a good decision?, I challenge you to point to one) and just general likeability. This thing is just dead on arrival as long as they’re in charge. Not only does it frustrate fans. But just imagine everyone tied to the franchise. Imagine how it impacts places like this website. Podcasts. Restaurants and bars around the stadium. They’re screwing everybody.

I just don’t get fans’ reactions. It’s not “too much.” It’s market value. This is what these players cost now. If you want to be good, pay it. If you don’t want to pay it, enjoy losing every year, and pray for an outlier every 25 years when you hit the prospect lottery (until they leave for the Yankees or Giants for real money). What bullet did we dodge? The team might stink 8 years from now as Correa declines? It’s dodging a bullet to be a non-competitive franchise every year vs. some hypothetical year down the road? I just want to grab people by the shoulder and shake them. “Wake up! Moneyball is dead - in fact - it was never alive! The As didn’t win anything. Stop it!” It’s not a viable strategy. Never has been. Never will be. I don’t care what their level of “try” was. They failed. Again. Just like they always do. They’re losers. Plain and simple. Quit making excuses and handing out head pats. Get the freaking job done for once. Im glad people take such joy in the Pohlads saving money for something down the road. That hypothetical future year that we’ve been waiting for since they bought the team when they’ll take winning seriously and invest. We’ve talked about that through how many waves of prospects, losing seasons, and playoff ass kickings now? Are we going to keep going down this insane path expecting to win something? If you’re fine with being a perpetual loser with no hope…good for you. As much as you may think it doesn’t make you a superior fan. Same thing every year. It’s like Stockholm syndrome. People here throw a party that we “avoided” signing high-end free agents….and then we proceed to get our asses kicked by the teams that signed them. We ignore all of the success stories, and find the one bust and say “See! you can’t sign free agents!” It’s asinine. Almost to the point of being comical.

We need to give the guys in the FO some credit. They are not dumb enough to focus on one player that they have little chance of signing (Correa), and don’t notice as everyone else flies off the board. It wouldn’t take a genius to see this play out, and pivot to salvage something. There’s two possibilities, here: They’re extremely confident they’ll get Correa back. Or, they’re employing a PR strategy by which they can CYA. They stay in the conversation, but never cross a threshold that would get something done. Then, in the press conference, we get the usual “we pushed hard but came up short,” “it’s a two-way street, they players need to want to play here,” etc. etc. In other words, lying right to their fanbase’s face.

I think it’s fairly likely he’s peaked. I don’t think the guy will be able to stay healthy, unfortunately. It’s already an issue. Its possible he finds a way to hit for more power and keep his knees/legs healthy. I certainly hope so.

You think the Phillies’ fans would trade places with Twins’ fans? Lol. No way. Add the Angels to that list. Probably even the Rangers. Their FOs are aggressive and give fans hope. The Angels currently have arguably 2 of the 3 best players on the planet. The Rangers are signing everybody. It would be fun as hell. Nobody cares about squeaking out the worst division in baseball and getting absolutely pulverized out of the playoffs. 2 of the last 3 you mentioned have won the World Series more recently. All have won a playoff game more recently. Nobody on the planet is envious of Twins’ fans, dude. We’re thought of in the same category as the Pirates, Royals, etc. Cannon fodder for teams that invest in their players.