farmerguychris

I've thought about this for awhile, so seems like a good time to ask - Do we want our players to make the All Star Team? 1 - They need the rest more than they need the recognition right? 2 - With arbitration negotiations coming up yearly, and these hearings overseen by non-baseball people - wouldn't it be better for our payroll to have players not make all star teams, thus not expecting to be paid more each year? Maybe its only a few million over the course of a season - but a few million could help us upgrade from some of our players like Pagan couldn't it? Would have been nice to see Duran in there closing out the all star game, but would prefer to not risk injury to one of our few pen pitchers having a good year.

Rocco is fine. Managers get too much credit when things go great, and too much blame when they go poorly. We are a .500 team just like the analytics predicted we would be before the season.

I feel blame goes in this order: 1 - Players. These are professionals who got to the top level in the world with their talents. They shouldn't need a ton of coaching by this point in their careers - just some tweeks. 2 - The F.O, They assembled the roster they wanted. They wanted to keep Pagan, and they signed the players who are slumping. Maybe their scouting skills aren't as good as they think they are. 3 - The coaches - These guys were hired (yes, by Rocco) to help with the above mentioned 'tweeks' to the professional players. They need to be able to communicate in a way each player understands, which may be different player to player. However, again, at this level they are working with pros who have the talent to succeed at this level already and generally have a track record to prove that statement. 4- Rocco. I know a lot of casual Twins fans don't like his demeanor. He's too calm, that he doesn't show any fire like Gardy used to. I admit, I liked the fire Gardy shows - but does being a red-ass lead to more victories? Rocco can only play the players the FO gives him. Rocco can only keep low leverage relievers out of high leverage situations so often when he only has 3 decent relievers and nearly every game has high leverage situations because our professional hitters can't hit. Rocco doesn't influence that Buxton isn't playing in the field - this decision came from doctors and the F.O. Rocco doesn't make any medical decisions (he only went to high school, do you think they'll let him give medical opinions)? Maybe I'm a bit of a Rocco apologist, but we shouldn't hold him accountable for decisions he simply does not make and too frequently I see posts here that blame him for choices he doesn't have any influence over.

I hate to say this, but come trade deadline I'd prefer to sell any pending free agents we have and try again next year. (certainly not in a position to buy with what I've seen) We have a good core, but won't be big players in the playoffs. I think still a chance to make to post season as we are, even minus a couple of guys that we could trade away for the future. Think we could even still win that 1 playoff game that's eluded us.

I think he could have a great role if playing for Cleveland.

In your opinion, what 'role' should he have as our highest paid pen pitcher? His salary is 50% of the total pen expense.

@AaronGleeman Emilio Pagán is the only MLB reliever with an ERA+ below 100 and negative Win Probability Added every season since 2020. 2020: 94 ERA+, -1.0 WPA 2021: 81 ERA+, -0.6 WPA 2022: 89 ERA+, -1.0 WPA 2023: 79 ERA+, -0.3 WPA His combined -2.9 WPA since 2020 is dead last for relievers. His results prove he is worse than being 'just a guy'. We would be a better team with literally any other relief pitcher in his place.

They seem to be ok at scouting other team's players, but are we as good at scouting our own young guys? Steer, Cano, Petty?

No.... just no, time to move on. Trade him (the fo claims they can) for some no name single a reliever and bring up literally any other pro level pitcher to replace him.

Is it however? Yes, this plan brought us Stewart. But this plan has also put us in spots where Pagan and Colome and have blown how many saves and lost us games? You can't have low leverage pitchers put in high leverage situations as often as we do and be considered a good pen. Half of a good pen does not make it a great pen IMO. I can't see how any pen with the worst reliever in the past 4 years (Pagan) can be considered a 'good' bullpen. We've certainly been worse, but I think today we're only halfway where we want to be.

My guess is that it will be Martin. Lewis's agent doesn't want him playing in the OF, and we know we listen to what the players want (right or not) as Kepler hasn't played in center for 3 years despite being a better option than others we've put out there. I'm still hoping Celistino can work on his hitting enough in AAA this year to be above replacement level for us, Don't know enough about the other minor league options currently in the system, already see enough of our options to certainly not trade for one at this point until they announce Bux is done as a CF option.

Sure, they have a good 3, but they also have a group competing weekly to be last man out of the pen. Worried this will be considered a 'success story' for the F.O., proving the fact that they don't need to 'really invest' in the pen in the future.

Fun article - nice idea and well written.

I've noticed some horrible umpiring this year - not only this play, but more 'no where near the strike zone' calls being called as strikes. The current batch of umps are making a pretty good case for robot umps going forward, even if most of us don't want them. We want accuracy.

I've been reluctant to push to have Buxton play in the field if he's not physically ready - BUT, with said I think you have a great point. Either let Buck rest until he can play CF, or admit that he is simply now a DH. Too many other talented (possibly) hitters on this roster are being blocked by having him in that DH role, and while our CF play has been adequate, it is time to bring up both Lewis and Miranda and then can send down someone like Castro, or DFA Kepler or even Pagan. Season is 40% over - time to make some internal moves to know if we should be buyers or sellers very soon.

Heck we had conflict on our beer softball league team - I would expect some conflict where things actually matter to happen. Conflict simply shows people care and are passionate about doing what they feel is best for the team. Its ok to have conflict as hopefully the compromise is better than either individual idea.

We try to be patient, but for the 4th year in a row - we simply can't hit. Different hitting coaches don't seem to make a difference. Time to change that philosophy somehow.

I think we have to move on. Next year neither Kepler, nor Polanco will be on this team as we have younger (and cheaper) options available. This is not unique to us, most teams have these same decisions to make as talent ages and new talent emerges. We have some good talent waiting in the wings that need a place to play.

He would be a great fit for a team where they have a pitcher who can hit and the DH bats for the Right Fielder - maybe the Angels. But - can they even do that?

Yes if we could trade Kepler and Pagan for some random reliever. This would allow one of our younger corner outfielders more playing time, and I feel pretty safe that any random reliever would be better than Pagan.

Glad he's doing well - Good job. BUT, I'm afraid now this will only support the FO belief that they don't need to invest in the pen because they can just find guys like this. They obviously do, but not as often as they think they do.

I would bet the Twins are hoping Celestino is ready to take over CF next season.

You're giving examples of things Rocco is not in charge of. Pagan cannot be sent to St. Paul as he has too many years of service to be sent down to AAA without passing thru waivers. This is a F.O. decision, not a manager one. Same with Jax - its not Rocco's call, that goes to the F.O. of who stays in the bigs, and who gets sent down. Same with injuries - Rocco never went to school past high school - you think they let him make medical decisions? You can be upset with the F.O. for giving Rocco God awful players like Pagan (I agree he should never have been resigned, also not a Rocco role), but Rocco plays who F.O. gives him. The Twins deserve some heat from fans - but it needs to be placed on the people making the poor decisions, not blaming Rocco for choices that are not his to make. Is he perfect - of course not, but know what he controls, and what he is not allowed to when assigning blame. One last note - given the pitchers Rocco has been given to select from in our pen (again, by the F.O.)- who would you send out instead? There are NO good options because the F.O. admits, the pen is not something they feel needs to be invested in.

I have no problem with Rocco. Managers in baseball get too much credit when things go well, and too much heat when things go poorly. The manager doesn't get to pick his roster, the manager doesn't decide who to call up or send down (hopefully does have influence), the manager is not a doctor and can't decide who is too injured to play. He simply puts the best possible roster together of the players he is given. When given a poor BP, he can only send out poor quality pitchers he is given. He's not the one who keeps striking out, or the one who decides Buxton should only be a DH. I know a lot of Twins fans will disagree with me, but he is part of the process of using advanced analytics that this Front Office has chosen to use to try and win a championship. Since that is the philosophy they are going to go with (which I support), then better to have a manager who also believes in it instead of an old school, rub some dirt on it type of coach like they could bring in.

I disagree - The team DOES have faith in him. Thats what most of us don't understand. They shouldn't have faith in him, but by resigning him, and then as they keep sending him out. Why could they possibly have faith in him to keep doing that is the question.