TopGunn#22

Can't see that I would disagree with this unless they filled Gallo's spot with Larnach or Gordon.

It sure does seem like the promotion of Lee took too long but glad to see it finally happen. Agree...don't mess with that kids swing. The power will come as he fills out. Doubles are just fine right now. That double to LF by Jenkins is classic hitting. Don't mess too much with that kid either. The Twins really fortified St. Paul with their 3 promotions and than resupplied Cedar Rapids. They had to open up some slots for the young'ens!

Everything we could be getting from Gordon and more (like nearly 30 SB's) we're getting from Willi Castro. Can't see Gordon offering much, but hey, he would be a massive upgrade on Joey Gallo. After needing to PH Solano for him with a RH pitcher on the mound in the 8th inning against the Cardinals a couple days ago it's obvious they have no confidence in him and no team was even remotely interested in trading for him. It's well past time to cut bait and open up a roster spot for Gordon or Larnach. I'm also most worried about Kirilloff. He's vital for the present and future. Stewart was fun while it lasted but as journeyman relief pitchers go this might have been his shining moment never to be reached again. Still, guys that throw 98 mph and show a wicked sweeper like he had maybe he's got some magic left for a couple more seasons.

The Joe Ryan we have seen since June & July is nowhere near the pitcher he was for April and May. Something is off. He certainly could use some time off. Whether that's skipping one start or a couple with a 10-day IL stint. However, the Keuchel opportunity no longer exists so do we call up Varland to take those starts? This is a team on a ship that is lost at sea with no apparent destination. Gaping holes in the lineup abound. Five left hand hitting corner outfielders wander about the deck longing for a cool breeze. The pitchers are suffering with scurvy and the captain of the ship decided that trading Jorge Lopez for Dylan Floro was the answer. Even with Cleveland conceding us the division at the trade deadline (just for good measure, the White Sox threw in the towel too) I can't help but wonder that in the mismatch it is between Rocco's managerial abilities and Francona's, that Cleveland will somehow find a way to beat us out.

I've had high hopes for Matt Canterino for what seems like forever. Like Doc Bauer, I would love to see him be a part of the rotation, but his future and his soonest contributions to the big league club will probably come out of the bullpen. He doesn't throw quite as hard as Duran (who does?) but his breaking pitches seem to be better and more consistent (at least from what I've read about him when he HAS been able to pitch. Thanks for the article and best of luck to Matt !!

I can accept standing pat...to some degree. Cleveland is all but conceding us the division. We still have waaay too many LH OF bats. SOMEBODY should have been moved. Larnach to the Padres would have made sense with their dearth of LH bats. I think last night everybody saw where Joey Gallo stands in the Twins plans. Jeffers strikes out, leaving runners at 2B & 3B with just one out. Cards have a RH reliever on the mound. Rocco can't risk the inevitable Gallo strikeout, so he sends Solano up to PH and "Donny Barrels" comes thru with the game winning, 2-run single. If you're Gallo on the bench, you lnow you've reached rock bottom. He should just be DFA'd at this point. Now I'm hearing Brock Stewart may be done for the season. If so, there goes another effective arm from a BP that is running on fumes (not to mention the starting staff as well). Maybe they could have made some minor moves around the edges. But it's clear the FO just wasn't comfortable with the cost of whatever they were looking at (Lane Thomas??). With the inevitable departures this offseason, and $60 million to work with, maybe the Twins will sign Blake Snell and finally have a LH in their starting rotation. Maybe a RH OF bat will be available thru FA or a trade? We still need to finish this season, qualify for the post season, and hopefully win at least one game (and maybe a series???). There's plenty of time to discuss off season maneuvering during the cold, cold winter.

So....................We did nothing?????

When Cleveland traded Civale they essentially conceded the division to the Twins. I would be sellers much the way Cleveland is. They gave up a solid #3 starter and got a heck of a hitter back who is very close a full time spot in the majors. I'd deal Sonny Gray for the biggest haul I could get. Would the Reds part with a young OF?? I'd move Maeda if the deal was right. I'd get Varland back up and in the rotation. Anyone from the major league roster Polanco, Kepler, Gallo, Taylor, Gordon and including Larnach and Miranda I'd listen on, Start the revamping of this roster NOW.

I don't trade Raya for Hader. But I DO trade Miranda for Hader. The Pads have nobody at 1B any good and a little uncertainty at 3B with Machado and at DH. The biggest difference maker on the trade market to me is Hader. For all his talent, Duran, like last night, just isn't at the consistent level of someone like Hader. But the two of them at the end of games would be dominating. With all the payroll leaving our roster next year maybe at 29 years old Hader would be worth the price. If it cost me a Larnach/Winder to acquire Lane Thomas I'd do it. Thomas fits in LF or RF (maybe even a little CF) for the rest of this season and beyond. Thomas is breaking through and would be a solid RH bat in a lineup where our strength is LH hitting.

I'm with you on this Doc. A deal involving Lane Thomas of the Nats would excite me more and the assets you mentioned could be in play. I'm not against a Renfro addition, it would just depend on the cost. It's time to move on from Solano and Gallo. Neither one has a future with the Twins beyond this season and with Polanco and Lewis coming back Solano has no place. I also firmly believe that the Twins have Farmer in their plans for 2024. Solid "D" at SS, 2B & 3B and a dependable bat. What's going to be interesting to me, is how Polanco settles in at 3B. If he's O.K. there, I could see him playing there next year. His value has cratered from a high somewhere between 45 and 36 on BBTV's to just 8.5. Unless someone blows the Twins away with a trade it's better to hang onto him for the rest of this year and see what the off season brings.

Spot on Ted. And it's NOT just for 2023. Buxton's long term future in CF is in doubt. Look, even when Buxton is "healthy" it's like playing Russian Roulette with his availability. For the rest of this year, Lewis in CF makes waaaaay to much sense. For 2024 and beyond, well, that's a tougher question. Polanco is a solid bat and his clutch RBI double last night just accentuates his importance to our lineup. I don't see any BIG trades for the Twins at the deadline, but I would like to see them buy as well as sell on the edges. I'd be willing to move Miranda and Larnach as a package or in separate deals to add someone who could help now (Josh Hader) and/or who could help beyond 2023 (Lane Thomas). But to completely write off any chance Lewis could play in CF, RF or LF for the remainder of this year isn't wise. They need his bat in their lineup. They need Julien's bat in their lineup. And they need Polanco's bat in their lineup. No one on TD has presented evidence that CF is a position that far more people get injured playing. I just think Lewis wants to play and contribute. For the rest of 2023, that should be in CF.

Like Doc Gast said, the time to trade Larnach was when his value was higher. He's gone from a BBTV's high of 30.4 to his present value of 3.7. Hader is valued at 2.9 and is a 29 year old FA at season's end. If the Padres would accept a Larnach for Hader deal I'd do it in a heartbeat. Trevor will never hit breaking balls. I give the 26 year old OF up for the best RP in baseball in my opinion, even if he's just a rental. But I'd do everything I could within reason to bring Hader back. Gallo should be DFA'd or find a team that we can get an A ball player for him. Kepler, at this point isn't going anywhere. 2024 is a different story. With Walker Jenkins and E-Rod a ways off, I see Royce Lewis in LF or CF next season as a distinct possibility. Polanco is like Larnach in that his value has fallen from about 36.0 (it was as high as 45) to 8.5 on BBTV's. The HUGE difference is that Polanco has shown he can hit. AND he's a SH. Always valuable in a lineup. But with Julien, Brooks Lee and Lewis where exactly does Polanco fit? With the departures of Gray, Maeda and Mahle from the pitching staff and our lopsided position player situation I think you could see a massive overhaul of the Twins roster next season. It's why I think they need to buy AND sell at the deadline.

I'll go a little different direction. Instead of a trade let's look at a couple guys who were released who still had a lot more "juice" than the Twins were expecting. First, let's look at Luis Tiant. The twins traded Craig Nettles, Dean Chance and Ted Uelander to Cleveland for him prior to the 1970 season. In 1968 Tiant was dominant going 16-8 with and ERA well below 2.00. In 1969 he started having some health issues so the Guardians shipped him to the Twins at seasons end. Tiant still wasn't "right" but went 7-3 for the Twins with a 3.50 ERA in 1970. We let him go and the Red Sox scooped him up, let him get healthy and he came back with a vengeance in 1972 and won 20 games a couple times for the Red Sox. The Twins should have been more patient with him. The other is Jim Kaat. Kitty had been one of the most consistent pitchers in Twins history and was lights out in 1972 going 10-2 with a 2.07 ERA by the All Star break, but he began having health problems, something he had never experienced before and in the off season the Twins cut him loose. He landed with the White sox and won 20 games a couple times for them as well before bouncing around to several teams as his career wound down. Again, the Twins should have been more patient. They could have had several more productive years from Kaat if Calvin wasn't just trying to save a buck all the time.

My initial reaction upon seeing the trade was that due to Lopez's superior "stuff" we were losers. I certainly hope things work out well for Jorge and his family in Miami. I'd like to see him succeed. Upon further reflection I'm O.K. with this. Floro is not a dominant arm like Lopez COULD be. But at this point in time, he's more dependable. That dependability is what the Twins need moving forward. I still think we need another dominant arm for the 8th inning and to close when Duran is not available. Looks like the Padres have taken Hader and Snell off the market.

Lopez has struggled but at least he has "stuff." Floro won't help at all. We lost this trade.

I agree with chpettit19. I'd be thrilled if we acquired Hader and were somehow able to retain him with an extension. I'd make him the #1 closer and possibly even consider Duran as a SP. It's not often an arm like Hader comes on the market at what would appear to be an eminently affordable cost. Larnach? Come on! If you wouldn't do that trade, you would never make a trade for anything. I just look at a team like the Dodgers, who we simply can't compete with checkbook-wise, and their closer situation (or lack thereof) and I can't see us outbidding them for a closer like Hader. Maybe the Padres just refuse to deal him to L.A. but the Dodgers wouldn't break a sweat beating Larnach in a trade.

I've been pushing for Hadar ever since trade rumors started percolating. His value (on BBTV's) is only 2.9. Hader is 29 years old and a free agent at the end of the season. Larnach's is 3.7. and he is 26 y/o and his value is sinking. You wouldn't even need to throw in Winder unless the Dodgers or some other team with a rich farm system started upping the ante. Winder's value is 7.4. He's 26 years old. Blake Snell's value is 7.2 (Snell is 30 y/o). Hader and Duran for the stretch run and playoffs would put the Twins in a great position to make some noise. Add a RH bat like Hunter Renfroe, Adam Duval or Randall Grichuch to balance the lineup and things could get interesting. Keeping Hadar would be very difficult as he would want to be the #1 closer someplace else (I would install him as the Twins #1 and use Duran for the 8th if we acquired him). But with Sonny Gray and Kenta Maeda moving on after this season it would be great to retain Snell to go with Ryan, Lopez and Ober.

Bullpen management is Rocco's weakest aspect. He just seems to have an uncanny knack for selecting the wrong guy. I hope the Twins use last night as an "teachable moment." Getting Stewart and Theilbar back will help a lot. But they could use at least one and probably two BP pieces. One of them can be more of a middle inning guy. But one needs to be able to close a game out when Duran is not available, or if Duran is called upon to put out the fire that was the 8th inning. Lopez was supposed to be that guy. But he can't be counted on.

I agree with the idea that if we add a RP it should be a difference maker. Hader, Bednar, Robertson. They need another reliable closer for when Duran is not available, or in the playoffs is brought on in the 8th inning in a high leverage situation. That "guy" was supposed to have been Jorge Lopez. He's just not reliable enough yet to be anything other than middle relief. Pagan is the same thing. I like what he's done lately, but I want him in the middle of a game, not the end. With the Padres, I start with Miranda in discussions for Hader. BBTV's has that as practically a one for one swap. But I think guys like Hader and Bellinger will cost more than their "value." I would still love to acquire Bellinger despite the higher cost. And I'd roll the dice we could resign him if he does well for us, because face it, if he does well the Twins will probably win the division and possibly even a playoff series (provided we can get that first win in forever). He's a perfect fit with his Gold Glove ability in CF, RF and 1B. Bellinger may see the twins as a better option to reach the post season more consistently than the Cubs. But to get a guy like Bellinger the Twins would at a minimum need to part ways with Gallo and Kepler. And seriously consider moving Larnach. With Emmanual Rodriguez and Walker Jenkins in the mix the Twins have far too many LH hitting OF players/prospects. Even if E-Rod and Jenkins are a ways off being big leaguers. Adam Duval would be a major upgrade for the Twins OF. He can play all 3 OF positions and would render MAT expendable. We should have signed him instead of Joey Gallo in the off season. Otherwise, Tommy Pham is a good, cheap, short term option for the remainder of the season. The Twins need to be both buyers AND sellers at the deadline. It's not only about resetting the roster for the stretch run, it's about recalibrating for 2024 and beyond. That's why I make a deal with the Tigers to get Eduardo Rodriguez, who is signed for 3 more years after this season and auction Sonny Gray of to the highest bidder. Sonny has been regressing to his mean for weeks now. Deal him and replace him with Ed. Rod (long term) or Blake Snell (short term unless you retain him as a free agent). The Twins need a LH SP for this season and beyond and I'd try to sell high on Sonny Gray.

I know it's sacrilegious to suggest this, but Sonny Gray has been regressing to his mean for some time now. I would make a play for Tigers LH Eduardo Rodriguez who is signed for 3 more seasons after this and auction Sonny to the highest bidder to replace prospect capital. Ed. Rod gives the Twins an effective LH starter for the rest of this season and future years. His cost going forward is fixed. He's younger than Gray. The Twins have some firepower poised to return to their bullpen. Stewart, paired with Balazovic is something I'm looking forward to seeing. Theilbar is as steady as they come. I'm not counting on anything from Alcala at this point. Jorge Lopez is a key. He's got tremendous stuff. He just needs the confidence to throw it. I wish he would just use his fastball more. He's a total mystery outing to outing at this point. I never thought I'd type this...but Pagan has been pretty darn good for several weeks. Could he also be gaining the confidence to go with his "stuff" ?? Jorge Lopez and Pagan gaining confidence through success along with Stewart, Balazovic, Moran and Jax leading up to Duran is a pretty good BP. What other arm could they possibly add? There are a number of them available.

I would prioritize Thomas. It would depend on the cost. Here's a deal that works via BBTV's. Twins Get: Lane Thomas OF 16.8 value 27 y/o and Joey Meneses 1B 4.6 31 y/o. Total value: 21.40 Nats gets: Miranda 8.6 3B/1B 25 y/o Wallner 10.7 OF 25 y/o Severino 1.5 2B 22 y/o Mooney SP .90 25 y/o. Nats get two young hitters in Miranda and Wallner that are MLB ready in addition to a couple of lottery tickets. Twins get a RH OF bat and a replacement for Miranda as a RH hitter. Meneses would be limited to a 1B/DH role, but his bat, while lacking the power potential of Miranda is far more reliable to make contact. This deal gives the Twins 2 reliable RH bats moving forward for the remainder of this season and beyond. Whatever the Twins OF looks like next year and beyond, Lane Thomas would have a place in it.

Brock, have you ever been to a game in St. Louis? Seriously, I've been there multiple times. Their fans are the BEST. Knowledgeable, friendly. There's absolutely nothing wrong with their fan base. They're certainly NOT Philadelphia-esque.

He should absolutely be shopped!! As I've said numerous times here, the Twins should be buyers AND sellers. This is a chance to re-work a roster that hasn't had a legit LH starter since the Johan Santana/Francisco Liriano era and can't hit LH pitching themselves. If the offer for Gray is a good one (and you can get some premium offers at the deadline for SP's) then take it. Plus, Sonny Gray is practically having a career year. At some point (maybe it's already happening) he will regress back to a pitcher with a 3.20 to 3.60 ERA. His current WHIP of 1.27 is not bad, but it's certainly not stellar. The Twins could turn around with the prospects they acquired in a Gray trade and make a deal for Blake Snell (who is also an UFA next year) or for someone like Eduardo Rodriguez if they would be willing to pay $18 million in 2024, 1nd $15.4 million in 2025 and 2026. I'd actually prefer having Ed. Rod at those prices for 3 years than Gray at $20 million per year for the next 3 seasons. Ed Rod is 3 years younger and LH to boot! Maeda may not be long for our rotation and he certainly won't be a part of it next year. Any deals made (both buying and selling) MUST have an eye on 2024 As soon as Polanco is healthy I'd look to move him. Julien may not be a good defender but the bat is undeniable. Lewis and Lee could play some 2B as well for future seasons. I'd be interested what some teams would give up for Larnach to strengthen our bullpen or SP. If "anything' could be gotten for Kepler or Gallo I'd look into it. Rental bats like Bellinger or Pham shouldn't cost too much in prospect capital. Heck, the Reds are legit as are the Orioles. What would they be willing to give up to add Gray to their staff? You'll never know unless you're willing to talk.

To me, the definition of insanity when handling a BP is pulling a guy after he's thrown SIX pitches. Yes, it worked, but from a usage standpoint I just don't get it. I think Rocco has pulled a guy after he has thrown 2 pitches in an inning (those 2 pitches ended the inning). If you're going to warm a guy up, give him some run. Since Ortega and Jax both throw RH there wasn't any statistical/analytical advantage gained. If the Twins are going to talk about BP guys who are "unavailable" on a given day a 2 pitch or 6 pitch inning, when the pitcher was effective, at least to me, means you should give them the ball to start the next inning. I think BP usage and strategy is Rocco's biggest negative. Even worse than lineups. I also think Maeda is pitching himself out of the rotation. Other than a bat or two for the lineup and maybe a solid BP piece, and considering the state of uncertainty surrounding our rotation next year, I wouldn't mind a trade that brought us Blake Snell if the Padres fall any further out of Wild Card range. We would finally have a lefty in our rotation and hopefully could sign him for 2024 and beyond. The other option is to just bring Varland back.

Well...the other big stat for pitchers, which doesn't seem to matter now (and isn't mentioned in the article) and is linked hand in hand with innings pitched is WINS! Viola was 13-2 at the All star break, on his way to a 24 win season. Call me old fashioned, but in this era of "Max Effort" on every pitch it just seems that we have a lot of "throwers" and not as many "pitchers." I know advanced metrics supposedly "tell us" that stats like "Wins" and "Batting Average" aren't really unimportant anymore. But winning games is the ultimate purpose of a baseball team. And a pitcher who knows how to "win games" is invaluable to a team in my view. Who would you rather build your staff around...Jacob DeGrom, who could be unbelievable but somehow never had the knack to win games, or Tom Glavine, who won over 300 games and always took the ball. Even when his stuff was at it's best DeGrom won 12-14 games in a season. I've got to believe the concept of "Max Effort" hasn't helped Jacob DeGrom in his career. Unless you count all the money he's made while rehabbing. Finally, I would put Jim Kaat's 1966 season in which he won 25 games on the list instead of Maeda's half season in 2020. Kaat should have won the American League CY Young, but they only gave one award for the American & National League and nobody was beating Sandy Koufax in his final season.