TopGunn#22

You and I are on the same page here chpettit19. I saw a LOT I liked of Joe Ryan especially at the beginning of last season. However, I just don't see him ever clearing that last hurdle to be a solid #2 SP. Any scenario that brings the Twins a true "Ace" by league acclimation who is only one year older than Ryan is a big WIN for the Twins. If it also brings us our CF of the future then it's a HECK of a deal !!. And yes, the non-Ryan proposal is just throwing odds and ends together to achieve a make believe deal. I don't think the Brewers would ever make that trade. But the chance to acquire a young, controllable SP to pair with Peralta next year would certainly tempt them, and very possibly beat any offer the Dodgers, Cardinals, Mets or Phillies could put together. The reason I think the Twins could do this and still get Garrett Mitchell is that the Brewers are literally overflowing with outfield prospects and Mitchell is the cheapest. Yet I remember Mitchell being VERY highly thought of just a year ago. His injury and the emergence of other young OF prospects have pushed him down on the depth chart and unfairly diminished his value. He would be a steal !

That's excellent how you laid that out Major league Ready ! Lee certainly interests me. Looks like I've got a little more money to spend than I originally thought. If I traded Jax 19.1 value, Larnach 7.8 value and Miranda 5.1 value and Hedrick 1.7 value (total value 33.7) to Milwaukee for Corbin Burnes 32.0 value and added an arbitration salary of $15.1 to Burnes for 2024 that would leave us at $131,738,000 for payroll. We'd still have another $9 to $10 million to add a SP or RP and a position player. Trading Farmer adds $6.6 million to that total. If you had $16 million to work with, you could fit Giolito into the rotation and create some depth.

Yamamoto is certainly the real deal. But Mike Sixel hit the nail on the head when it comes to bidding for him. We just won't win. I know that sounds defeatist but I'm trying to be realistic. When always reliable SP talented teams like the Dodgers and Cardinals are as desperate for SP as they are (each of them need at least TWO SP's for next season) and you add the LONG list of everybody else who needs SP (rich teams like the Mets, Phillies, Yankees and Red Sox) heck, even the BRAVES say they need a SP, there is no way the Twins can win a bidding war, especially with the news that payroll will be CUT for next season. Even the secondary market candidates are going to be in high demand. So my worry is, the Twins M.O. is to sleep in while the market opens and after a couple leisurely cups of coffee to stimulate those brain cells and a crossword puzzle or two, they check in to see what's happened so far, only to discover there's nobody left but Dylan Bundy looking to make a comeback. They'll tell us they "tried" and maybe even mention that they conquered TWO crossword puzzles while the market was going crazy, but in the end, just didn't see a value move that made sense.

Yes, I did propose the following trade: Twins Get: Corbin Burnes 32.0 value 29 y/o, and Garrett Mitchell 11.3 value 25 y/o CF of the future (wouldn't need to consider signing Jung-hoo Lee from Korea. Brewers Get: Joe Ryan 39.1 value 28 years old, and either Miranda 5.1 or Polanco 4.5. Either works. I'm trading both Polanco and Miranda this winter so whoever Milwaukee wants, they get. Mike Sixel: I trade Ryan to sell high on a guy I'm not sure will ever fully figure it out and someday may give up 40 HR's in a season. Burnes is obviously the far superior pitcher. He's only valued at a lesser amount because of what his future salary starting in 2025 will be. Burnes is projected to earn $15.1 million thru arbitration in 2024. If the Twins acquired him, they would have the opportunity to give him a contract extension and keep him thru his age 35 season. Seems like a worthwhile gamble. I'm also giving Ryan up with the expectation that I'm either signing a Giolito type pitcher to take Ryan's #4 spot in the rotation or making another trade for an Edward Cabrera type to replace Ryan. I'm looking to add a co-Ace to the top of our rotation with Lopez and still upgrading the Ryan slot in the rotation. Burnes & say, Giolito would cost the Twins about $28 million. If Polanco, Kepler and Theilbar were traded we save almost $24 million. Brock B: Peralta is an interesting name and also a very talented pitcher on a very team friendly contract. But BBTV has his value at 64.0 (largely due to the affordable contract for the next 3 years). To get him, I'd have to give up a Walker Jenkins or Brooks Lee AND Bailey Ober. I'm just not willing to even consider that. And Burnes is perceived as the superior pitcher. Now for those who think trading Ryan would be akin to Adam taking a bit out of that apple in the Garden of Eden, here is another possible deal. Twins Get: Burnes and Garrett Mitchell. Same two guys, same 43.3 overall value. Brewers Get: Garrett Jax 19.1 value 29 y/o. Larnach 7.8 value 27 y/o. Moran 10.1 value 27 y/o. Miranda 5.1 value 26 y/o. Tanner Schobel SS 3.3 value 22 y/o. Total Value 45.3. Someone has to replace some of the value of Ryan, so Jax is the guy. He's 29 and I'm replacing him with Varland anyway. Moran is a valuable bullpen piece for the Brewers and I don't like giving him up, but Ryan's 39.1 value is going to take some heavy lifting to replace. Larnach and Miranda give the Brewers a couple young hitters. Schobel has the potential to replace Adames once Milwaukee moves on from him. In this scenario the Twins rotation would be: Burnes, Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Paddock. It's a pretty solid rotation, but another trade or bargain FA signing would be needed to provide additional depth beyond SWR, Winder, Festa or Raya. Unless you're comfortable with those guys for depth.

I like Lee because he fills a needed position (CF) and he brings an approach to the plate we need to integrate more into our lineup, that being elite contact and on base skills with a little power. It was mentioned he might require a 4-year $14 per year ($56 million) commitment. If I could deal Polanco $10.5 million and Theilbar $3.0 million I'd have our CF. he's just 25 years old. He can grow with the youthful core we already have. Some of the pitchers intrigue me as well. With a reduction in payroll coming, if a couple pitchers could be signed for lower than current MLB pitchers on the market I'd have to give them heavy consideration as well. GREAT ARTICLE !!

I appreciate having the chance to read everyone's thoughts before I comment. I'm not really interested in mid to late 30ish guys who are limited by what they can contribute in the field. Turner would be a good solid bat in the #5 hole for our lineup. He still seems productive. But I want somebody who can be around when the rest of the young talent starts to blossom. I agree with those that are of the opinion that with limited resources what money we have to spend should go towards filling the rotation holes that Gray, Maeda and Varland will cause in our rotation (remember, I'm moving Varland to the bullpen for 2024). So with that said, I'm interested in Lee. He's 25 years old. he can grow with Lewis, Julien, Wallner, Jeffers, and later, Brooks Lee, Emm-Rod and Jenkins. He's a CF with elite contact skills. I think you're getting someone closer to Steven Kwan than our previous KBL flops. Hitting at the top of the order with Julien batting 2nd, we've got some serious table-setters. Since I think Julien is adequate at 2B and I've got Lewis and then Brooks Lee coming soon, I'm trading Polanco. We will be fine without him. If it would take $14 million for 4 years to sign Jung-hoo Lee to play CF and lead off, trading Polanco $10.5 and Theilbar $3.0 is about a wash. I roll with Funderburk and Moran as my bullpen lefty's. I would prefer to keep Kepler this season and have an outfield that's primarily Kepler, Lee and Wallner, but this means we still need to scrounge a RH hitting outfielder (unless Austin Martin is that guy). I may not have a better LF/RF option than Kepler available. The final move to make a Lee signing workable is a trade for a SP that doesn't cost much in terms of salary for another 3 years or so. I proposed this deal on another thread: Twins Get: Eduard Cabrera RHP 8.5 value on BBTV 26 years old. Sixto Sanchez RHP 0.0 value 26 y/o. Ryan Weathers LHP 0.0 value 24 y/o. Total value 8.5o Marlins Get: Larnach 7.8 OF 27 y/o. Brent Headrick LHP 1.7 value 25 y/o. Nick Gordon Utility .20 28 y/o. You could swap in Misael Urbina 2.3 value a 21 y/o OF for either Gordon or Headrick, whatever the Marlins want. A deal like this helps soften the blow of Varland to the bullpen and adds a cost-efficient SP to the rotation in Cabrera. It also leaves the opportunity to add a SP somewhere in the Giolito/Wacha/Eduardo Rodriguez price range depending on how far the Twins would consider reaching and surpassing $140. CF Jung-hoo Lee is who I would go after.

Wallner would be way above Edward Cabrera rico, but your Larnach & Headrick deal could work. I have my eye on Cabrera but also a couple somewhat "forgotten" pitchers the Marlins have. I would expand the deal and have it look a little like this: Twins Get: Edward Cabrera BBTV of 8.5 26 years old. Sixto Sanchez RHP 0.0 value 26 years old and Ryan Weathers LHP 0.0 value and 24 years old. Total value of 8.5 Marlins Get: Trevor Larnach 7.8 value, a 27 y/o OF Misael Urbina 2.3 value, a 21 y/o OF and Nick Gordon .20 a 28 y/o utility. Total Value of 10.3. On the surface it's an overpay for the Twins but I'm fine with that. If the Marlins needed an arm I'd substitute Headrick (1.7 value) for Urbina. The secondary arms in the deal are what I'm actually after. Sixto Sanchez has an electric arm but has battled injuries the last couple seasons. He's got HUGE potential, but his value has cratered to a net zero. He's a lottery pick worth being patient with. The Marlins may be ready to move on, with young arms like Eury Perez, Max Meyer (who's had his own injury issues) and others having passed Sanchez by. The other arm is Ryan Weathers who the Marlins acquired as a throw in from the Padres. Weathers looked really good as a 22 year old LH starter for the Padres in 2021, but he's fallen on some hard times as well. Both Sanchez and Weathers are gambles worth taking. Weathers is younger than Headrick and reached MLB as a 22 year old. I'd swap those two out any day of the week. Either of Sanchez and Weathers can remain as SP's or fill a bullpen slot until they prove their effectiveness and health. Kind of like moving Varland to the pen for the "now" but leaving a return to the rotation possible in the future. This kind of deal would compel the Twins to make a BIG move for a SP in either another, bigger trade, which could be tough if they've moved Larnach, one of their top trade chips for the off season, or, to make a BIG splash in free agency for a guy that would slot right next to Lopez at the top of the rotation. Cabrera, Weathers and Sanchez are all still VERY affordable. There would be room, even with a reduced budget to do this. Cabrera is the headliner. But Weathers and especially Sanchez are the diamonds in the rough.

Severino is similar to Giolito in that there's real upside with the talent they have. The difference between Severino and Giolito is that Giolito is still a pretty reliable workhorse. Pitched over 180 innings last year. It's been quite a long time since Severino did anything close that. But I like a Severino signing for his upside much more than I would a Shoemaker/Bundy type signing. I think with the payroll set to be about $140 million that all but assures a Polanco trade (which I expected) but also a Max Kepler trade (which I could see but thought he might stick). That opens the door for Wallner to play RF and the addition of a guy who could play a little CF and LF (a Tyler O'Neill, Hunter Renfroe type). Signing a Giolito or a Severino would make sense if they load up and make a trade for a Pablo Lopez level pitcher. With both Kepler and Polanco in play it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Thanks Heiny ! My "wish" is that the Twins will be aggressive and realize that throughout this upcoming 5 year window each year is going to require some tweaks and polishing. This year is a crucial year because we're at the "beginning" of that window. Other years won't take as much tinkering but certainly when we come to the end of 2027 or 2028 when Buxton, Correa and Lopez are coming to the end or near end of their deals and guys like Lewis, Julien, Lee, E-Rod and Jenkins will be at various points of getting their payday or some form of a team friendly extension like a Kepler or Polanco, then, other big decisions will need to be made. Signing TWO pitchers in FA just isn't going to happen. The Twins rarely even sign ONE. What I think is a realistic hope is that they sign one and trade for another. I think Giolito is a good target if we can get him for 3 yrs and $12-$13 million per year. He's not like Happ, Bundy or Archer at all. He's a workhorse who eats innings and strikes people out. In a more stable situation in Minnesota, maybe we can help unlock something that gets him back to 2019-2021 form. It's a good gamble to take. We got where we did in 2023 because of pitching. The market for pitching is going to be red hot this off season. Guys will get paid a lot more than we think they will. Giolito is a good buy low candidate who could turn out to be a steal. I'm not interested in some one year "prove it" contract. I want to build stability and known costs going forward. The less you have to go into each off season needing 2 SP's for your rotation, the better it is to determine if someone like a Varland or Festa are ready to take the next step. Each year will have big questions for which an answer will eventually come. I want Varland in our bullpen to lengthen it and make it downright dominant. That requires at least two additional SP's to go with Lopez, Ryan, Ober and Paddock. So a big question for me next year is Matt Canterino. If he breaks camp with the team, bypassing AAA, or comes up in May and stays healthy, he's a guy that would allow me to put Varland back in the rotation in 2025. With pitching, it's always better to have more than not enough. What if Ryan or Ober stagnate? Or take a step back? That's why I'd make a deal with Milwaukee where we switch out Ryan for Corbin Burnes. You take on a salary but with all the young position players and even some pitchers the Twins should have room in the payroll to boast a Burnes & Lopez at the top of the staff. And remember, Burnes is only ONE YEAR older than Ryan.

No single move should be analyzed in a vacuum. I would agree with those who still see an upside in Giolito despite the horrible stats the last 2-3months of the season. I see a pitcher who is young (29) durable (threw 185 innings last year) and strikes guys out (over one K per inning). Adding Giolito is NOT like adding Dylan Bundy, J.A. Happ or Chris Archer. I'm not interested in him if it's a one-year, $20 million dollar "prove it" contract. I WOULD be interested if I could get him for 3 years and $36-$39 million. Every year, starting pitching gets more and more expensive. And in this off season a LOT of teams are going to be looking for it. I'd rather have a 29 y/o Giolito than Maeda. I'd rather have a deep and dominant bullpen with Varland in there for at least 2024 and Giolito throwing 180-200 innings for my rotation. But Giolito only makes sense if the Twins bring in another SP who is a clear #1 or #2 to pair with Pablo Lopez. The Twins were winners last year because of PITCHING. Bringing in a Corbin Burnes through a trade or an Eduardo Rodriguez as a 2nd F.A. is necessary to build a deep and talented rotation and bullpen for 2024. Giolito only makes sense if you can get him on a bargain 3-year deal to take advantage of his age 30, 31 and 32 seasons. He's a buy low with high upside candidate. Making him your "centerpiece" F.A. acquisition isn't a good plan. He should be a complimentary guy with the upside to be a steal. It's not in the Twins M.O. to sign TWO (much less one) free agent pitchers. So it's time for the Twins to change their usual way of doing business. The Twins have a window where they could be pretty dominant in the A.L. Central for the next 5 years. But even though the uncertainty of the future TV deal is hanging over them, they shouldn't be cutting payroll. They should be arming themselves to be a playoff team for the foreseeable future.

Yup, if he retires they still have to pay him. Maybe some form of insurance could pick up a portion of the tab (I would expect the Twins have an insurance policy with Lloyd's of London or someone to that effect). The big thing a retirement would accomplish is the ending of all the speculation. Just a couple days ago, one of the Twins Daily writers had projected the Twins 26 man roster for 2024 and each player's salary and there was Byron Buxton, listed as our CF! Any projection of the 26 man roster needs to have Buxton placed in a parenthetical category, off to the side, listing his salary, but with 26 actual contributing, warm bodies making up the roster. ANYTHING they get from Buxton should be considered a bonus. But a flat out retirement just removes the fog of confusion as to where he actually fits in the plan going forward. The comparison to Jacoby Ellsbury by Aerodeliria hits the nail on the head. The Twins need to have a plan that Buxton is not a part of, because to count on him for anything, yet again, is poor analytical thinking.

This is the problem with trying to do something like this unless you have something to use as the arbiter of a players "value." I usually go to BBTV. What Doc is proposing seems reasonable, until you see that the 27 y/o Kirby has a value of 73.9 and the 26 y/o Kirby has a value of 98.6. As a comparison, Polanco has a value of 4.5. Larnach a value of 7.8 and Urbina a value of 2.3. All of them together are nowhere near the value of either Gilbert or Kirby. You'd more likely be able to trade for Luis Castillo who only has a value of 20.8 because the Mariners just signed him to a big contract. Guys with big contracts or who are expected to get a big contract are much easier to acquire if you're willing to take on the contract. That's why I proposed this trade about a week ago or so: I don't know what the reaction was on BBTV. Stuff gets buried there pretty quickly. Maybe I should re-post it. Brewers get: Joe Ryan 39.1 28 years old and cheap for a couple more years and Jorge Polanco 4.5. Total Value: 43.6. Twins get: Corbin Burnes 32.0 29 years old. Makes a decent salary for 2020 but will make BIG BUCKS in 2025 and beyond. Twins also get CF of the future Garrett Mitchell 11.3 value 25 years old. Total Value: 43.3. The Brewers do it because they need a 2B and they are going to undergo a major rebuild with Craig Counsell leaving to manage the division rival Cubs and they will be cutting payroll. Mitchell is quite talented but one area the Brewers have a plethora of young talent is outfielders. The Twins do it because they know Burnes is better than Joe Ryan will ever be and he's just one year older than Ryan. They also know they have a window opening to be a very good baseball team and they can't "cheap out" and waste that opportunity. So we're willing to throw a lot of money at a 30-year old Burnes after he has a fabulous 2024 at age 29. They want Burnes and Lopez fronting the rotation for the next 5 years. They want to win a World Series.

Doc Bauer, it's never a "bad" thing when you write a longer than usual response because you always make good points and your logic is well thought out. :) What was the main reason The Twins won their division and broke the playoff losing streak? PITCHING !! The top target would be Snell, but the bargain, and someone who over a 4 to 5 year contract might be more consistent is Eduardo Rodriguez. I wouldn't spend that kind of money for a "crafty" pitch to contact left handed starter. I'd like to see the Twins actually be aggressive on TWO F.A. pitchers. Ed-Rod and Lucas Giolito. Ed-Rod would finally give the Twins a lefty in the rotation and he would slot right behind Lopez as #2. I'd slot Giolito at #3. He's an innings eater who strikes guys out. Outside of the toxic environment of the White Sox I think he could go back to being Lucas Giolito. I've got Ryan and Ober interchangeable as #4 & #5. Paddock is needed as a depth SP for the expected trips major league pitchers make to the I.L. At least guys like Lopez and Giolito are pretty dependable to give you 170+ innings. This allows you to move Varland to the bullpen for 2024. It also allows the Twins to use Polanco, Farmer, Theilbar, Larnach and Miranda to shed payroll, acquire a better CF option and replenish minor league talent where the Twins feel they are lacking. This team is coming off a divisional title and is set to compete for several years for divisional titles and maybe more in the playoffs. This is no time for the Twins ownership or F.O. to take their foot off the gas. Was talking to a Brewers fan this morning who was lamenting the loss of their manager to the divisional rival Cubs. He hearkened back to 2018, after the Brewers had knocked the mighty Dodgers out of the playoffs. He was saying "that was the beginning of our 5 year window to maybe bring a World Series Championship home to Milwaukee. Instead, ownership tried to get by on the cheap and ended up squandering the chance. Now look where we are, it's time to break it all down and start over. Five year window is closed, and how long will it take us to build back up to compete in the N.L. Central?" He's spot on. The Twins have a bona fide window. The key is not to get cheap and squander it. Don't take your foot off the gas !!

I'm moving Varland to the bullpen for 2024, so Ryu, who is one year younger, a better pitcher, LH and would cost $8 million for one year vs $21 million for TWO of Maeda? If that's how it's laid out, and I also go sign a FA like Giolito at 3 years $36 million to fill a rotation spot, well, that's not too bad. I believe Ryu is a better pitcher than Maeda. The Dodgers did as well, because Ryu was always in their rotation while Maeda was always pushed to the bullpen come playoff time. One year of Ryu at that price is much less risky than 2 years of Maeda, especially with Ryu one year younger. A rotation of Lopez, Giolito, Ryan, Ober, Ryu and Paddock with Varland bolstering the pen would be a pretty good plan if it all came to fruition.

Despite his age, Kiermaier still won a Gold Glove this year. In fact, if you think Buxton's a great CF (when healthy) he's never been the equal to Kiermaier. But as FireDanGladden guy said, it all depends on what KK would cost. If it's reasonable I could be on board. I've been saying Taylor will never come close to 20 HR's for the rest of his career. I like that KK doesn't strike out nearly as much and has equal speed and base stealing ability to Taylor. I could live with a KK platoon with Castro and maybe Martin. I disagree with the notion that the only way to improve our pitching is through a trade. There are some decent "value" free agent possibilities. Giolito, Eduardo Rodriguez, Trevor Bauer. But as I said in another thread, EVERYBODY is going to be looking for pitching this off season. Many teams are looking for "several" rotation pieces. So even "value" signings could turn out to be pretty pricey. I also disagree with the idea that 29-31 year old pitchers are past their prime. I'd offer a contract that takes them through age 35 but not beyond. Sonny Gray is 33, but I'm not giving him a 5 or 6 year deal at that age. But if you trade Polanco ($10.5 million), Farmer ($6.6 million) and Theilbar ($3.00 million) that's $20 million saved that can be used on a FA starting pitcher or to acquire a SP that while costly, would be a #1 SP (even with Lopez on the staff) for the Twins. That kind of trade acquisition should be someone like 29 year old Corbin Burnes.

One thing I know for sure: Pitching is going to cost more than anybody is projecting at this point. The Dodgers probably need THREE starting rotation arms. The Cardinals are desperate for SP. The Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies and Mets ALL need help in their rotations due to free agency, injuries or ineffectiveness. Throw the Reds, Braves, D-Backs, Padres and Orioles in as well. Pitching will be at a premium this off season, probably more than usual. EVERYBODY needs pitching. It's going to cost and there are only a finite number of real options to go around. I want to move Varland to the pen. Not necessarily "forever" but certainly for next season and then we'll go year to year. Adding Varland to the pen lengthens it and really sets it up to be dominant. I cut $3 million in salary by including Theilbar in any trade and let Funderburk replace Caleb. If I'm moving Varland to the pen, I need to acquire TWO SP's to have adequate rotation depth heading into 2024. We know Lopez, Ryan, Ober and Paddock are 4 SP. So lets look at some of the options or guys who will fit the Twins BUDGET, because we all know we generally don't pay "top dollar" for starting pitching. Ed-Rod: Probably gets 5 years and $20 a year. Your paying for age 31 thru 35. That's acceptable if you agree 35 is the age cutoff where you need to be careful. Lucas Giolito: An excellent lower priced candidate. He's a horse (184 IP last year). He strikes people out. But he's been in a tremendously insane situation with the White Sox. He's only 29 years old. A four or five year deal at $15 million per would be a bargain in my opinion. He'd be a candidate for a major comeback with a stable Twins organization and Pete Maki's tutelage. I'm strongly in favor of this. BOTH Japanese pitchers will be good. They will both cost waaaay to much. Especially Yamamoto. He's signing a $200 contract for sure. He's not coming to Minnesota. Trevor Bauer: He's 32 and he is still a pretty good pitcher. I have no idea what he would cost or who would be interested in him. But with a gazillion teams needing pitching, people will be interested in him. I could see him going back to the Reds. He won a Cy Young there, it's in the midwest, out of the spotlight. And that's why I think the Twins should be giving him serious consideration. The heck with the "he's a cancer in the clubhouse" speculation. He can still pitch. A 3-year $12-$13 per year contract would pay dividends far beyond what Kenta Maeda would. Tyler Mahle: After what the Twins gave up in a trade to get him, it's been speculated that we would resign him at a team friendly deal to at least give us the chance to even the trade out a little bit. The problem with Mahle is when would you get him back? I've heard talk not until the All Star break. That's too long and too risky for me. Hard Pass on Mahle. Frankie Montas is also a guy I've been pushing for going back to last year's trade deadline. I believe he's a free agent now and that his shoulder issues that sidelined him when the Yankees acquired him at the deadline in 2022 are healed. EVERYBODY will be looking for buy-low deals. What is the price to sign him? How many years is realistic? He's heading into his age 30-31 season. By my age 35 rule, I'd offer him a 4 year deal. And finally, there's the trade market. Who would possibly be available and what kind of package would be needed to get them? One name that is sure to be available is Corbin Burnes. Counsel will leave for another managerial opportunity. Woodruff will miss all of 2024. It's time for a rebuild in Milwaukee and Burnes is going to be traded. I've mentioned several times previously that the age difference between Burnes and Joe Ryan is ONE year. Here are two deals to acquire Burnes from Milwaukee. Twins Get: Burnes 32.0 BBTV and Garrett Mitchell 11.3 24 y/o OF Total Value: 43,3 Brewers Get: Joe Ryan 39.1 and either Jorge Polanco 4.5 value Total: 43.6 or Jose Miranda 5.1 value 44.2. The choice for Milwaukee is between Polanco and his superior ability to Miranda but Jorge's $10.5 million contract for 2024 and an option year beyond that, or Miranda, a younger hitter with defensive limitations but still on a minimum contract. To be sure, other teams with certainly deeper pockets will be bidding for Burnes. But if the Twins were looking at trotting out a rotation featuring Burnes, Lopez, FREE AGENT, Ober, and Paddock that would be interesting. Plug in Giolito, Bauer, Ed-Rod or Frankie Montas into that F.A. #3 spot in the rotation. With Duran, Varland, Jax, Stewart and Funderburk for certain and probably Moran and Alcala filling out the pen. You'd have one season of Burnes for sure and the chance to try to extend him before free agency for 2025. He's pitched for the Brewers. If he finds success with the Twins could he decide he'd rather be here than the insanity of L.A., New York, Philly or wherever? There is no comparison between Burnes and Ryan. Ryan has potential but real issues if he'll ever be able to ascend to the next level. Burnes is a former Cy Young Award winner who just is, and probably always will be, a far superior pitcher than Ryan. The only benefit to Ryan right now compared to Burnes is cost. And someday, Ryan will want to get paid, but he'll never be the pitcher Burnes is. I'd sell high on Ryan, bring a Cy Young SP into the fold and add a FA SP who will be seen as a bargain to the guys who will get outrageously overpaid this winter. But what a pitching staff that would be, from the rotation to the bullpen. It could win a World Series. Texas just did it. Why couldn't the Twins.

He's a part of the Twins future. Until he isn't. You've got Emmanuel Rodriguez and Walker Jenkins on the fast track. There are a couple other young OF prospects as well. Right now, Wallner's value has never been higher. The mere idea that his value is equal to Juan Soto's in BBTV is amazing. San Diego is going to have to blow it up this off season. They will lose the N.L. Cy Young Award winner in Blake Snell. They will lose ace closer Josh Hader. They can't trade Manny Machado, his contract is atrocious. The only guy left standing will be Fernando Tatis (and Machado). I'd trade Wallner, Winder and Headrick for one season of Juan Soto. I know I'm the wet blanket in the delirium of Matt Wallner's season. But we're talking Juan Soto. With reinforcements coming that will probably be better than Wallner. You want a World series Championship? Swing for the fences.

Not a chance. He hasn't exhibited anything I'd be interested in keeping. We have PLENTY of better prospects to develop. If I could throw him in as part of a multi player trade to get it done I'd do it in a heartbeat.

O.k. Finally watched the video. EVERYBODY is signing with the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Phillies or Giants. That's how these things usually go. But I have to agree, that of these free agents it is very "Twins" for us to be signing Giolito and Mahle. Mahle, because we invested some serious prospect capital in him and we're motivated to show some kind of positivity with the trade. Although with Mahle not being able to contribute until "late" 2024 and what I perceive as an urgent need in the rotation with a move to the bullpen by Varland, I wouldn't go in that direction. Giolito however is a quintessential Twins "buy low" type of signing and I'm on board with it. He eats innings and strikes guys out. Holding down the #4 or #5 spot in our rotation is a good plan. I like Eduardo Rodriguez but even though he refused an end of the season trade to the Dodgers, he's predicted to sign there. And the Dodgers need about THREE SP's so that's certainly a possibility. They even predict Maeda goes back to the Dodgers. They mentioned Rhys Hoskins as a possible Twins signing but predict he will be one of 44 hitters that will sign with the Mariners. One other sneaky Twins signing could be Luis Severino, the former Yankee SP. Does he have anything left?? They predict he will sign with the Reds. The 40-man roster was interesting. I see Polanco traded, and maybe Farmer and Theilbar traded as well. Each represent a spot on the 40 man. Theilbar is going to be 37 years old next year and spends half of each season on the I.L. now. I'd rather roll with Funderburk and Moran. Depending on what other Rule #5 guys the Twins project to be available and what needed positions they play (CF, bullpen) I could see several other guys dropped from the 40 man.

Where would Trevor Bauer rank in this list cost-wise? In addition, it would be nice to see a list of potential SP that could be acquired in a trade and what their current contract status is. This is an excellent topic, and Bowden's list is a good starting point. This is something we're all going to be commenting on for the entire off season. So if anyone has some additional ideas of where Bauer fits into this and possible SP trade targets that would be great.

That's a great baseline to begin with Jon. Thank You. Here is where I differ: I trade Polanco $10.5 and Farmer $6.6 and Thielbar $3.0 in trades. That aggregates to $20.1 million of savings. I put Varland in the bullpen. With Varland providing a boost to the pen, I make a decision at the conclusion of spring training whether Cole Sands or matt Canterino breaks camp. I'm leaning Canterino. The bullpen is now: Duran, Varland, Jax, Stewart, Funderburk, Moran, Alcala and Canterino. If Moran can't throw strikes, or Alcala/Canterino can't stay healthy, I could look for a veteran this off season to fall back on. Think of a Jeff Hoffman type who we let go this spring. I sign Eduardo Rodriguez for 4 years and $17-$17.5 million per. I now have a younger SP with more upside than Gray, a LH at that and I save an additional $6 million per season. I look to add someone with major league experience to play CF. Maybe Tyler O'Neill is acquired from the Cardinals for Winder and Theilbar (just an example). O'Neill would probably cost $6-$8 million. Byron Buxton isn't even on my roster sheet. If everything is GREAT for Byron, I can play O'Neill in CF to give him rest and play O'Neill in a corner OF spot against LH pitching. But I'm not counting on a.n.y.t.h.i.n.g. from Byron. Whatever I CAN get is a bonus. With Varland bolstering the bullpen I look to add another SP via trade (Polonco, Farmer, Miranda, Theilbar, Winder, maybe even Max Kepler) are trade possibilities. One other option is to resign Mahle at a team friendly deal to add depth for later in the season. We will call this guy "SP-X." Off season plan: Move on from some veterans and make way for some more youth. (check). Provide for a plan without Buxton. (check). Bolster the bullpen with talent from within (Varland, Canterino, Moran, Funderburk) and maybe one arm from outside the organization. (check). Acquire at least one, but probably two SP's Ed-Rod and SP-X) to allow Varland to fortify the bullpen. (check). That's a rough outline of my plan. Would it allow for a splashy move like trading for Juan Soto, Josh Hader? That would depend on how much the Pohlad's give me to work with and what other moves I would make.

There really was no surprise in the Twins extending both Max and Polo. They are bargains at those prices. But how do both fit into future Twins rosters? Many of you you have already listed all the depth at 2B/3B where Polo would slot. Even if we move on from Farmer or Gordon (which I think we will) we've got plenty of younger and cheaper options than Polo. He will be traded before spring training in a deal to bring a SP or a CF. Depending on Polo's current value and the value of the asset we bring back, someone like Larnach or Miranda or Winder may need to be included in the deal. Max is a little different, but only from a timeline perspective. It sure was encouraging to see "2nd half Max" as opposed to "Max, post 2019." He will remain our RF for 2024. After that, it's a little more murky. E-Rod will play most of 2024 in the minors. It's possible he could get a call up in August or September. Walker Jenkins. How fast is that kid gonna move? They say both Jenkins and E-Rod project to be corner OF even though both are playing a lot of CF. What if one or both of them could play 3-5 years of CF before they move to a corner? And then there's Austin Martin, who could be an excellent #9 hitter type with on-base skills and speed? And there's Rosario and others. Max probably only has one more year in Minnesota.

I agree. I'd rather just read about it. But if the hot air helps raise the temp in my house by one degree...

That's too rich for Pagan. Currently, the highest priced relief pitchers on the Twins roster are Pagan and Theilbar. Caleb will be 37 next year and usually has about 3 I.L. stints in the course of a season. If it were up to me, I'd look to trade Theilbar before his production completely goes off a cliff. I'd go with Funderburk, Stewart and Moran at a fraction of the cost to keep Theilbar/Pagan. Add to that, the potential move of Varland to the pen and the potential electric stuff of Matt Canterino and I don't see the Twins throwing big dollars at any relief pitchers. More likely, I see them looking to add a couple SP allowing for the Varland move to the BP. One via trade and a lower priced SP like Eduardo Rodriguez (who looks to cost about $5 million less per year than Sonny Gray). A move to the pen for Varland in no way ends the chance he wouldn't ever be a SP again. But if Moran can throw strikes more consistently, Funderburk just does what he did this year and Canterino stays healthy the bullpen reinforcements have arrived.

Ruvan: I think 1965 and 1991 are the top two. In 1969, Allison was just a shell of his glory days. In 1987, Gladden was nothing special and Bruno was above average. 1991 had the great Kirby Puckett who had a good but not great year. A very good Shane Mack and the aforementioned "nothing special" Dan Gladden. 1965 is probably the best of your list, but if you look a little deeper you'll find Allison was so/so, Hall hit .285 with 20 HR's (decent, but not great in a pitching dominated decade) and Oliva won the batting title. One other consideration: The 1977 Twins OF. LF: Larry Hisle .302 28 HR 119 rbi (led the A.L.) 21 SB's and a .533 slugging average (Really Good) CF Lyman Bostock .336 14 HR 90 rbi 16 SB's and a .508 slugging average. (Really Good) RF "Disco Dan Ford" .26711 HR 60 rbi but only a .467 S.A. (Cleary not good enough to be on an All Time Best list). So upon further review, I nominate the 7th place finishing 1964 Twins. LF Allison .287 32 HR 87 rbi 90 runs scored SA of .553 or Killebrew .270 49 HR 111 rbi 95 runs scored .548 SA (both played 1B and LF) CF Jimmie Hall .282 25 HR 75 rbi 61 runs scored SA .480 RF Tony Oliva .323 32-HR 45-2B 9-3B 94 rbi 109 runs scored (led the A.L.) .557 SA (and ROY). On pure stats, that's probably the best. Unbelievably, I think Killebrew played more innings in LF and Allison more at 1B that year. What was Sam Mele thinking???