TopGunn#22

Pitching is why we won the division last year. It is why the White Sox are winning the division and we aren't. To win next year and in the future, you need to build a staff AROUND Berrios. That's why, if the Twins make a blockbuster trade it should involve Buxton (ALL THAT POTENTIAL) and not Berrios. We've probably played HALF or more of our games WITHOUT Buxton since he came up. We're used to it. Berrios takes the ball every 5th day. I trade Buxton. I SIGN Berrios.

I agree Doc. The Twins are going nowhere this season but the Mets have HIGH hopes to not just win their division but to make a deep playoff run. With the Yankees really struggling the time for the Mets to make a move is NOW (or at least VERY soon). In all this discussion of who to trade, I think the guy the Twins just CAN'T trade is Berrios. No matter what they get back it won't be enough. Last year when the Twins defended their division crown, there were several hitters who were "disappointing." Sano, Kepler, Polanco were ALL key players who just didn't produce like they were expected to. We won the division because we pitched very well. This year, we're hopeless because with the exception of Berrios and Rogers NOBODY has pitched well. (can we just be DONE with Shoemaker already!!). The Twins need to keep Berrios and Rogers. They are cornerstones in the rotation and BP. Donaldson needs to be dealt. Not sure what the Mets have in their system but I'd take a lesser package just to move Donaldson's contract. Since the Twins seem to play 50% of their games without Byron Buxton, I would consider trading him if the package was a blockbuster.

Yeah, I agree Mike. Is Arraez valuable or not ??? At this point, the way this season is going, I think the Twins need to consider dealing almost anybody. It always comes down to what the return is. Arraez or Polanco should certainly be considered. Cruz for sure---a contender will want that bat. Guys like Donaldson & Sano should be dealt just to move salary with little consideration for what we would get back. Kepler should also be heavily shopped. Now that kiriloff and Larnach are up what kind of pitching could the Twins get for Max? Plus, if you get prospects there's another $11-$12 million of salary relief. On the other hand, I just don't see they sense in trading someone like Taylor Rogers when your BP stinks and he's the only trustworthy guy you have there.

I think Rogers, Duffey, Robles and Alcala are a good foundation. What is needed is a #1 arm like a Rosenthal or Yates at the back end. Maybe Colina could be a piece as well but can't be counted on until he proves healthy. Jorgenswest makes a very good point about cost to keep them all, but if the Twins are able to somehow jettison the cost of Sano, Cruz, Donaldson and others the Twins can better invest that $$$ in other areas. But I go back to still needing a big-time, proven arm at the back end like a Rosenthal or Yates. And they may not cost as much with their injury problems but that adds to the risk. Our roster is terribly out of balance right now and that's 100% on this FO. Time for them to figure it out.

LA Vikes fan is correct and the team to trade him to is the Mets. The Mets are in "MUST-WIN" mode. It matters NOT what you get for JD. You move him to jettison the salary so you can resign Buxton/Berrios and/or look to shore up other areas of need. Arraez would be fine for the remainder of this season (we are going nowhere anyway). The Mets or Reds are the best options (Suarez is playing SS--even if he shouldn't be). I would like to see many changes---Sano, Cruz, Simmons, Happ, Shoemaker, Pineda, Kepler, Garver, Arraez/Polanco, Robles, Colome--- Any of these guys should be considered as tradeable. But I think the Twins should be reloading, NOT rebuilding.

I've had hopes for this kid ever since we signed him. As tough as Buxton's luck has been with injuries, Javier is right there with him. Thank You Seth for shedding some light on a player I STILL think could be the Twins future SS.

My first thought is that it doesn't matter what the Yankees paid Hicks. The Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox etc.. can throw all the money they want around, but it doesn't mean they are "intelligent" decisions. it just means they can absorb more STUPID payroll commitments than most teams. My second thought is that HECK, if the Yankees want to pay him $200-$300 he's gone no matter what we try to do. Anyway, what if the Twins offered 4-years $72-$80 million to Buxton with a player option after two years ?? The Twins understandably need "some" protection and Buxton deserves a healthy raise. If Buxton kills it in 2022 & 2023 the Twins would need to decide if $30 million a year going forward is doable (if he kills it, they better make it doable). Buxton gets $20 million guaranteed per year for 2 years and has a chance to build his value even higher. Fact is, he's a generational talent, that for a myriad of reasons just can't stay on the field. Durability has VALUE. I really WANT to see Buxton stay here. I think he should be paid...to a point (but not paid purely on potential until he can put 2 years of healthy baseball together). I think this is a prudent and reasonable approach for BOTH Buxton and the Twins.

I agree. This all comes down to what the vision forward for this team is with our FO. If we're in "Burn this House to the Ground" mode then a trade of Rogers makes sense. However, it appears to me in your Mets Trade that we're one "fringy" prospect short. The Mets are getting MORE value as it appears to me and as the team in "win-now" mode, they should at least equal or over-pay to do so. I don't want the Twins to burn everything to the ground, but the failures of our FO have put them in a position where they need to address some MAJOR roster decisions at the trade deadline and into the off season. Rogers is really our only GOOD bullpen arm (unless Duffey comes around). Are we burning our ships on the shore to show we're not giving up on the near future or are we admitting we have to completely re-tool ??

I would do everything I could to move Sano. SOMEBODY will be intrigued by his power and I'd take ANYTHING as long as they took on the remainder of his contract. If I could move Sano and his contract I'd consider keeping Donaldson, but if I could get a reasonable return for Donaldson as well (and I wouldn't be looking for much) I'd send him packing as well. I need the Donaldson/Sano money to try to retain Buxton/Berrios. Cruz---I love Nellie but it's time to send hi to a contender. Happ & Shoemaker--If anyone wants them GREAT. I doubt they do. DFA 'em. Simmons---Move him. Play Polanco & Gorden at SS the rest of the year. maybe give Wander Javier a look in Sept. In 2022 we either need to spend some serious money on a FA SS or consider bringing Simmons back for cheap. Pineda---He could bring something of value back. Move him and entertain bringing him back in FA. Robles---Ditto Pineda. BUXTON/BERRIOS----these guys are the absolute key to what the Twins are for 2022, 2023 and maybe 2024. We either invest in both going forward (in other words pay them handsomely) or move them both in trades that bring back a TON of young potential. Both of these guys could get some serious talent back, but it put the Twins near the bottom of the division for a minimum of 2022 & 2023. After winning the last two division titles I'm not sure I'm willing to do that. We're not as bad as we've shown in 2021, but we certainly have MAJOR roster reconstruction to consider. Our FO has failed far more than they've succeeded. We built Target Field to KEEP players like Buxton & Berrios. It's time for the Pohlad family to UP the payroll to keep this team relevant.

I'm late to this so many of of first thoughts are already taken. (JorgensWest nailed it with Tommy (The Blade) Hall and Larry Hisle. Reese---The greatest Twins game I ever saw was in 1969. A friend invited me to a Twins game for his birthday and we had seats right behind the Twins dugout. Reese hit a pinch hit Grand Slam off Dave McNally to beat the Orioles and end McNally's 16-game personal win streak. I was 11 years old. I'll never forget it. (and yes, Billy Martin sent Reese a LH hitter up to hit againt a LH pitcher in McNally). Gagne, Tovar, loved them BOTH. Here's one who never got to play for the Twins but in 1969/1970 he was really hyped by Herb Carneal and the broadcast team. Herman Hill. His nickname was "Beep Beep" because of his speed. Tragically, he was killed in a boating accident.

I still think Lewis is destined to be a CF'er so if I HAD to choose between Buxton & Berrios I would choose Berrios. Berrios is durable. As bad as our pitching is, we don't get better by giving up on Jose. Subtract Berrios from this staff and how much worse would we be ?? Finally, Target Field was built to KEEP our best players. Come on Pohlad's ! 5-years and $100 million for Berrios. Should have been done last winter. Now Buxton. As it has been mentioned by others, Target Field was built with the promise we keep our best players. Buxton is our BEST player. Even if I feel Lewis is destined for CF, Lewis could play RF just as easily. Byron's latest injury is, to say the least...frustrating. But if you're looking for a silver lining, maybe it makes him "somewhat" more affordable. I might gauge what the haul could be for Buxton in a trade, but ultimately, I want to sign him as well. Everyone has stunk---Pitchers, hitters, the manager, coaches, the front office. Indeed...total system failure. The White Sox and Indians were gearing up over the winter to put some pressure on the Twins and the best our FO could do was Happ, Shoemaker, Colome and Simmons. We could have signed Liam Hendricks, but we let the White Sox have him. Target Field was built so that the Twins could STOP with these crappy "half-measures" in building a consistent winner. We brought in a new FO to effect this stated plan. Most of what Falvey and Levine have done are still those crappy half-measures. Get Serious ! Players like Donaldson and Sano should be dealt. Cruz as well despite the fact he's our best hitter. It's time to spend some money for a real SS and a couple SP's as well and an anchor for our BP. And yes, sign BOTH Berrios and Buxton. You've developed them. They are good major league players. We're better WITH them. So keep them.

What I'd like to see in "theory." C JEFFERS RORTVEDT (Garver traded for pitching SP/BP) 1B KIRILOFF (SANO TRADED for whatever they can get) 2B POLANCO/ARRAEZ 3B ARRAEZ (Donaldson traded). SS FA Signed. STORY---The high end. BAEZ---The low end. OF LARNACH--BUXTON--KIRILOFF--KEPLER (I would do what is needed to keep Buxton and Berrios. They are the cornerstones you would build around) (Possibly trade Kepler if the deal is "right." SP BERRIOS, MAEDA, OBER, DURAN---2 FA signings. Someone like a Gausman/Stroman/Duffy and a lower end vet. BP TAYLOR ROGERS, DUFFEY, ALCALA, ROBLES--not as a closer, and I agree, 2 more FA BP signings with one of them being the guy that would be our closer. I really wanted Rosenthal or Yates...and both got hurt very early, so I would have wasted the money this year. But I still think one of those two as the presumptive closer and another steady vet arm to help stabilize the BP. I want to see CHANGE. I've loved Cruz as our DH but when the N.L. opens up 15 more slots he can go elsewhere and the DH spot can have many players rotate through. I say goodbye to Sano. PERIOD. The Twins are not as BAD as they've played this season, but they have a LOT of flaws. Build around Buxton and Berrios, cut bait on guys like Sano, Donaldson, and possibly Kepler.

I agree ! great comments and discussion. I think 6/$150 is a little high. But it depends on how close they think Balazovic, Duran and Canterino are and what they could get in a return trade. I think they need to keep him and build around him.

Obviously if you're going to trade Buxton, NOW would be the time. His value has never been higher. Clearly, the Twins have nobody who could adequately fill CF if we DID deal him (maybe Kepler ??) But despite being the 2 years running Central Champs this season is exposing the flawed roster the Twins currently have. I really like the idea of a Buxton and Sano trade package to someone like the Red Sox or anyone else looking for a CF'er as well as 1B. Maybe the Braves would be interested in playing Sano at 3B and they would move Austin Riley out to LF. Here's another angle: There's probably going to be a DH in the NL next year. Sano could DH, play some 3B and spell Freeman at 1B from time to time. I also know this: The Braves have a LOT of talent in the minor leagues and on the fringes of their major league roster. Buxton and Sano for Pache, and a couple of their young pitching prospects might do it. Then take the $$ you've saved from trading Buxton and Sano and fill other holes. Despite injuries to really "key" players the White Sox are running away from us. THAT's what the objective should be...re-tool the team to be able to compete with the White Sox. Kiriloff and Larnach are up to stay. Whether Kepler remains or is also dealt away remains to be seen. But some major "changes" need to happen with this current collection of misfits. Berrios should be the guy the Twins keep and extend. You just don't let an above average (with the potential to be quite good) homegrown pitcher get away.

At this point, with the prognosis for the season dismal, move these guys up. It's time to cut bait with Shoemaker. Happ isn't far behind. The FO isn't going to get a bag of baseballs for either. So send them packing and accelerate the progression of these young pitchers.

I could see giving Garver reps at 1B and let the kids (Jeffers & Rortvedt) handing the catching. It's time to trade Sano for anything. What we get doesn't matter. Getting his $11-$13 million off the books so we can use it for other areas. I'd trade Pineda to the Yankees TODAY (their rotation is a mess). Maybe we could get Miguel Andujar, who is looking like he's starting to find his stroke again. He'd be a 3B/LF type of RH bat. Cruz, Simmons, they need to be moved. Come next year we will need a full-time SS and there are a LOT of FA possibilities. Lewis is going to end up in CF.

Good point about Oakland dbminn. But I think Tampa is the BEST fit. And I agree with Seansy, pay Cruz's salary for the rest of this season in full if it will upgrade the one or two prospects the Twins would receive in return. That money was already budgeted for 2021...pay it and upgrade the talent level. The current group of mis-fit toys needs competition !

The above quote from Rocco is baffling. No matter how bad the Twins are playing you've got to recognize that "Shoe" just ain't the present or the future. If I was forced to keep him around I'd move him to the BP and give someone else a chance at his rotation spot.

Now that the cold, hard reality of this Twins season is sinking in (and it's a bitter taste, for sure) the FO has to determine to what extent do they re-tool. You can't trade or release EVERYONE, even though it seems like we're all just fed up with them. Sano needs to go. I don't care how little they get back, he is a prime example of addition by subtraction. SOMEBODY should be intrigued with his power potential. Maybe the Rockies after their one year look at CJ Cron is done would have some interest. I don't really care what we would get back. I just want to spend his $12 million or so next season more effectively. Kepler has been a BIG disappointment to me. I really thought he'd reach a level that he would make it tough for a Larnach or Kiriloff to dislodge him.. Not so anymore for me. But the position that is the biggest hole going into next season is SS. Simmons will be gone. Polanco is better off staying at 2B. Gordon is not the answer, and Lewis (in my opinion) will not stick at SS and will be our CF'er replacing Buxton eventually. With that in mind, and looking at only Berrios, Maeda and Dobnak in the rotation for sure in 2022, I think the biggest FA target should be a solid, veteran SS. With Cruz gone, Pineda gone, (hopefully Sano gone), possibly Kepler gone, there would be some $$$ to spend on a SS. I'm not going to advocate for a specific SS but Story, Baez, and others will be out there. Get one. I'm interested in seeing some of the young arms fill out the rotation and bullpen in 2022. Balazovic, Duran, Canterino, Jax, Ober. There are guys there with potential. I don't think any of us want to see the FO concede anything for 2022, but the White Sox have set the bar and the entire division is improving. The FO has really got their work cut out.

I'm all in favor of making some significant changes in Twins-Land. But I'm going to pass on this particular deal. Bradley has never done anything for me, just not a fan, and if Josh gets "hot" even his pricey contract will have a couple of teams needing a 3B (Mets, Brewers) very interested in adding his bat and glove to their lineup. I "get" that his contract makes him a negative value as well (I've played a bit at Baseball Trade Values) but these are contending teams looking to make a move or two to get over the hump. I can't see the Twins taking on a dumpster fire like JBjr and a pitcher currently coming off TOS. But, keep the speculation coming...casue we're gonna be dealin' !!!

I think it's time for the FO to realize that guys like Sano will never be more than what he is. Move him for a bag of baseballs. Max Kepler has probably played himself into a trade as well. With Kiriloff and Larnach basically "up" now, Max hasn't demonstrated that he's superior to either, and that's saying a lot about a guy who clubbed 36 HR's in 2019. They need a new SS and since I don't think Lewis will be the answer (CF is where he'll end up) the FO needs to make a big signing from the stacked FA market for SS next year. I expect Pineda, Cruz, and possibly Buxton to be dealt at the deadline. Shake things up. This group never got over the hump of winning a playoff game.

I must admit, I've been very disappointed in Donaldson. He's been nowhere near what we all expected or hoped for. Last night against the Royals he had several opportunities to come up with a big hit, and came up empty each time. As it looks more and more likely the Twins will finish this year in jarringly disappointing fashion, I'm wondering what the "re-tool" is going to look like. If Donaldson is even "average" coming up to the deadline, I'd look to move him for very little return to a contender (would the Mets want him?) just to clear that salary to be used for other areas needing improvement. Donaldson, Sano, Polanco, Simmons, Kepler, Pineda, all should be involved in discussions for prospects. Maybe take a hard look at the FA shortstop market next year. A team built to defend their 2-year run as division champs shouldn't be crashing and burning with the "complete system failure" that we've seen. Kiriloff is up. Larnach is up. The arms like Duran, Balazovic, Canterino and Jax shouldn't be too far away (although Balazovic needs to get healthy). But a lot of the "dead weight" on this roster needs to be sent packing.

Any idea when they would move him to High A and if he shines there, up to AA ? His command of the strike zone is something badly needed in the current collection of Twins hitters.

I agree cHawk. Just make Rogers the closer. This "OMG, we can't have a guy close a game on back to back nights" crap is driving me NUTS ! It's like the "magic" 100-pitch count (watching the game, and holding our breath every pitch after 100, just HOPING someone like Berrios doesn't spontaneously COMBUST on pitch #104)!!! I was thinking the other night that Donaldson is due to start heating up, and yes, some "clutch" hits would do wonders for this team right now.

I thought Rocco whiffed on the way he handled Dobnak from the beginning. In ST, Dobnak flat out earned the 4th or 5th spot in the rotation. Happ was better than Shoemaker. So I thought Dobs should have been #4 or #5 from the get go. Lately, Shoemaker has been better than Happ who was pasted not once but TWICE against the White Sox. It's too bad Alcala gave up the two run bomb last night. he looked really NASTY before the rain delay, then BOOM ! We're down a run. I would leave Dobnak in the rotation for some time and pay close attention to Happ & Shoemaker. One of them eventually will have to go once Duran gets enough innings in and is brought up.