TopGunn#22

Baseball trade Values has Kepler at 30.4 for his value. You could get a LOT back if it was valued at 30.4. If you acquired Weathers and Clevinger from the Padres it still wouldn't be 304. If you got the Yankees (who DESPERATELY need outfielders and LH hitters right now) you could get Devi Garcia and and one of their minor league SS's. I could go on with more examples, but if you accept that baseball trade Values as a decent gauge of what you could get, then Max at 30.4 could get us a LOT !!

I don't think the Mets have enough. The Padres on the other hand DO. And now 5 games back, the pressure is building to do something that will get them over the hump...NOW. Baseball Trade Values would "validate" THIS Trade: Padres get: Berrios 40.8 and Ober 2.8 = 43.40 Total Value. Twins get: Weathers LHP 19.4 Mackenzie Gore LHP 17.5 Clevinger RHP 6.5 = 43.60 Total Value. Padres get a tremendous boost to their starting rotation and an additional year of Berrios, and a young pitcher (Ober) who is already up throwing Big League innings. Twins get a young LH-SP in Weathers with potential who is currently on the IL. Gore who can't seem to find the strike zone the last couple years (the pressure would be on the twins to "Fix Him) and Clevinger a RH-SP who is out for the season and an injury risk. If things break the Twins way, they are well on their way to a good starting rotation. If Gore can't throw strikes and Clevinger keeps getting hurt it's a disaster. (you could also possibly switch Blake Snell 4.4 with Clevinger to weight it a little more toward the Padres. Snell can't seem to find the plate consistently or last more than 5 innings but the Padres would get a very dependable starter for their #2 or #3 behind Darvish.

Well, this is a Bummer in a True Bummer of a season. When it rains...it pours.

I certainly could see both traded. I would bet Berrios at the deadline to a team like the Dodgers or Padres and Buxton this winter once he plays as this season winds down and he builds back some value. Baseball Trade Values has Max Kepler worth 30.4 points and Buxton at only 25.3. To me, that means trade Kepler to the Yankees NOW (they are desperate for OF'ers & LH hitters, Kepler is both), Here's how the trade would look: Yanks get: Kepler 30.4 Bechtold .70 Pineda -.7 Smeltzer 2.8 33.20 Twins get: Devi Garcia RHP 14.8 Vargas SS 14.50 Clint Frazier 1.8 M. Andujar 1.7 32.80 Yankees get a LH power bat and OF'er they desperately need as well as Pineda in the rotation and Smeltzer for depth. Twins get a young SP and the Yanks 3rd best SS prospect as well as two young but to this point disappointing players in Andujar and Frazier. Frazier replaces Kepler and Andujar is a 3B, LF and maybe 1B type who could be insurance if Donaldson and or Sano are moved. I trade Berrios before the deadline to the Dodgers or Padres---whoever ponies up the best package. I trade Buxton this winter when his value is rebuilt.

7th inning collapses like last night do not help Berrios make the case he's worth "Ace" money. "Aces" finish that game in short order...1-2-3. I like Buxton, but I'm much more willing to deal him to a WIN NOW team than play the Russian Roulette of his health every year. It's interesting to note however that Kepler at 30.4 has a higher value in Baseball Trade Values than Buxton's 25.3. I'd sell HIGH on Max and just sell on Buxton.

Never underestimate how desperate the Yankee's need is to WIN. That's what they do. It's expected of them. Let's make it a blockbuster: Yankee's get: Buxton 25.3 Berrios 40.8 Cavaco 5.7 Pineda 1.0 Smeltzer 2.8 = 75.60 Twins get: Jasson Dominguez 38.0 OF D. Garcia RHP 14.8 Clint Frazier 1.8 Vargas SS 14.5 Luis Gil RHP 8.0 77.1 Remember: Never underestimate the Yankee's need to WIN and WIN NOW. The Yankees need rotation help. NOW. Berrios & Pindea are an instant infusion of starting pitching talent. And their OF is in tatters. Especially CF. Buxton gives them MVP caliber talent at that position. THAT's why you ask for Dominguez...and GET HIM. You add Frazier as a SH OF'er to fill in for now and see if he can regain his value back. You add a nice, young RH SP to your rotation and get a solid SS prospect back who is not even NY's TOP rated SS (That would be Oswaldo Peraza 23.6). Yankee fans and the New York media would be all over the Yanks FO if they turned down a trade like this. And I think you could get even a little bit more from NY if you had multiple suiters (Dodgers, Padres, Braves etc...)

I've GOT to believe the Twins have offers out to BOTH Buxton & Berrios (and I would suspect Rogers as well). I've thought long and hard about this and if I had to choose between keeping Buxton or Berrios...I keep Berrios. The Twins will not be contenders until their pitching improves...A LOT. Plus, they are SO used to playing WITHOUT Buxton. I do not give Buxton away. But he's who I move (especially if 5-years and $100 million isn't enough). The Yankees, Dodgers, Padres, Braves, could ALL be interested in Buxton. And despite the Dodgers aversion to giving up "prospects" now that they finally won a World Series last year (their first since 1988 !!) the pressure is even greater to win again. May has great upside, but Berrios would help them win NOW (as would Buxton and Rogers). Seager ain't going anywhere. The Dodgers will PAY HIM. Lux, if his "D" is O.K. would step right in at SS. The Padres with Weathers, Hassell, Paddock have all sorts of interesting players. The Yankees are as big a disappointment as the Twins this year and do you think Yankee's fans have the "patience" Twins fans do ??? With the demand/need for players like Buxton/Berrios/Rogers we could actually end up getting MORE than we would think for them, because each would be a difference maker wherever they go.

Spot on Doc ! They need to start matriculating these arms up the ladder in their system. "Arms" are funny things. Some can throw for years and years, and some burn out relatively early. I'm of the philosophy that a pitcher doesn't need to be "completely" polished before you move him up to the big team. Blyleven wasn't completely polished when the Twins called him up in 1970. Neither was Don Sutton for the Dodgers in 1966 or Jim Palmer in 1966 for the Orioles. Those are 3 HOF'ers who "made it" so I know I'm being biased. (none of them were Eddie Bane). But sometimes you have to just pull the trigger and stop worrying about "perfection."

I agree Mike ! I'm not anxious to give up one of Garver, Jeffers or Rortvedt but catching is ALWAYS at a premium and with the exception of Rortvedt (whose hitting needs work) the other two could be considered quite valuable. I like that Ted mentioned Jesus Luzardo as a possible trade candidate. He's been a big disappointment to the A's but is certainly the prime type of prospect the Twins should be targeting. He would be penciled in as one of our 5 starters next season and the upside is there. He needs to be healthy but he also needs refinement. What magic could Johnson work with him?? A package of Cruz and Pineda for Luzardo and something more would be a good trade on paper for BOTH teams.

LOTS of great points made on many players. I still think this year is more of an aberration than a trend, but the White Sox are clearly better than we are. Their young pitching is IMPRESSIVE. Has anyone noticed how GOOD the Tigers young pitchers have looked?? And Cleveland is better than us despite missing Bieber for a good chunk of this season. Guys, the Twins have to get better. Some tough decisions need to be made. If they can somehow move Donaldson's contract, Sano and his strikeouts, Pineda, Happ, Theilbar, that would clear out a lot of dead weight. But some GOOD players---Arraez, Berrios, Rogers, Kepler, Garver, etc...MIGHT need to be moved. I'm against trading Berrios. But if we got back what the Dodgers or Padres were projected to give up I'd do it. It all depends on what the return is.

Maybe it's time to move Balazovic up a level. His last two starts show he's out-classing his current level. I'd love to sim him eventually get a couple of starts in an end of the season call up. When he's healthy, he's fun to watch operate.

I would not prouster. In projected deals with the Dodgers and Padres the Twins got: Dodgers---Dustin May and 2 other good pieces. Padres---LHP Ryan Weathers (who has impressed me this year at 21-years old) and a CF prospect that is about a year away who is VERY good. He would provide insurance for Buxton should things get "messy." Those proposed deals have moved me the closest I've been to even consider moving Berrios and/or Taylor Rogers. Pieces like Cruz, Donaldson, Sano, Pineda, Robles, Simmons, ALL need to be prioritized in trading. Berrios, Rogers, Buxton will need to see the Twins blown away to even consider. Each one is needed to be relevant for 2022 and could be dealt at the deadline next year if things don't come together for the Twins. I consider this year more an aberration than "the verdict is in" for the Twins. But there is NO DOUBT some serious re-tooling is needed.

I agree with the idea of trading hitters like Cruz, Donaldson and certainly Sano if I can get a decent bag of baseballs for him. But we will NOT be better in 2022 or 2023 if we trade the best pitchers we have. Moving contracts like Sano, Cruz and Donaldson would give the twins $$$ to sign some pitching and hopefully a SS of the caliber of a Baez (or bringing Simmons back). I WOULD consider trading Pineda for the right package and I think they will do this. They need to sign TWO SP's for next year and give Dobnak innings to see if he fits in their plans. Maybe Odorizzi could be resigned...they would have some options. And they still need another SOLID option at the back of the BP, someone like a Rosenthal or Yates. I think they have enough hitting even if Cruz, Donaldson and Sano are gone, but in ANY year the Twins have been contenders, they have had above average pitching. You have young guys that are getting close, but the SP's and BP's need reinforcement. Trading Berrios would be a big mistake. SIGN HIM. Rogers is a key player. To deal him you need a NICE return and you have to have a plan for the BP in 2022 WITHOUT him.

I like this pick ! Power arm. Potential staff Ace. First, sign hi. Then start coaching him up to iron out his command issues. But I like the Twins being aggressive regarding a power arm.

Oh there are a BUNCH of things, and many of you have already mentioned them. Arraez: Play him every day he's healthy and bat him leadoff. If we are able to deal Donaldson at the deadline make Arraez the everyday 3B. If not, play him primarily at 2B and 3B (Donaldson will be "hurt" several more times). Simmons: Trade him, then play Gordon more consistently. Gordon and Polanco can split SS/2B innings and Gordon can play some additional games in CF. (Buxton will be hurt "several" more times the remainder of this season). But I get Gordon out there more consistently and hit him 9th. If Simmons is dealt, then Polanco and Gordon are splitting SS and Polanco and Arraez are splitting 2B. Polanco, Arraez and Gordon are ALL on the Twins in 2022. Sano: Trade him for a bag of baseballs or buy out his option. It's time to cut bait on Mr. "K" the rally killer. Kiriloff and maybe Garver are our 1B-man going forward. Pitching: What a Mess ! I doubt we end up trading Berrios or Rogers unless a trade haul like the Dodgers (Dustin May) or Padres (Ryan Weathers) presents itself. So assuming both remain with the Twins: Trade Pineda and Robles. Trade or release Happ. Put Ober and Dobnak at the back end of your rotation and start moving some of the young arms (Winder, Balazovic) up and get them some Major League innings. I'd be excited to see Canterino and Duran if they can get healthy. At this point, I just hang on to Colome. We have an option for next year. We'll get nothing for him at the deadline. I'd just keep throwing him out there in low-leverage situations for the rest of the year and determine this off-season if he's part of our BP in 2022. We still need a guy like Rosenthal or Yates at the back end. If Colome is part of our 2022 BP he's pitching in the 6th inning primarily. Maybe he bounces back to his norm in 2022. (Side Note for 2022 off-season) GET A SHORTSTOP !! (Story or more likely Baez). Have a "promotion" where the Twins hand out Rosaries to every fan that comes through the turnstiles for the rest of this season. During the game, between innings, fans will be encouraged to say a decade of the Rosary for future team success and for future and continued health for Byron Buxton. If that is too over the top, we will confine this promotion to only Sunday home games. But certainly SOMETHING must be done to insure Buxton stays healthy and PLAYS.

As an example, here is a trade that "works on paper" according to Baseball Trade Values: Both have a value of 31.10 Yankees Get Kepler 30.40 Bechtold .70 (3B) Twins Get: Devi Garcia 14.80 SP Vargas 14.50 (Minor League SS) Clint Frazier 1.80 OF The Yankees are loaded with minor league SS's in the 14-18 value range. Garcia gives the Twins a young SP candidate and Frazier (who has been miserable this year but is better than Jake Cave) replaces Kepler in RF. Would the Yankees do this ?? I have no idea. But it shows that Kepler could bring something of interest back and with Kiriloff & Larnach he is superfluous. We're not paying Kepler to be our 4th OF'er.

I agree Tony & Rodney. I'm not ready for a rebuild. To some degree, I can accept this year as an aberration, Like the 1964 Twins. 1962 & 1963 were good years. 1964 they finished 7th despite some players having solid years. 1965-1970 they had ONE bad season (1968), all the rest were quite good. So I'm not ready to throw in the towel on this team for 2022. However, changes ARE needed. The state of Minnesota "gifted" Target Field to the Pohlad's for the purpose of seeing a competitive baseball team. The Twins are NOWHERE near a luxury tax threshold. It's time to pony up the money and plug some holes. They need a Rosenthal/Yates type of arm at the back end of the BP to pair with Rogers or just to take the closer spot if Rogers is dealt. Cruz needs to be traded to a contender needing a bat. Maybe they bring him back next year? Cut bait on Sano. Maybe you package him with Rogers in a deal ? Simmons to Oakland makes sense--do it. The most interesting trades I saw proposed came from another thread that involved Berrios and Rogers going to either the Dodgers or Padres for some serious talent coming back. In either scenario, the money saved by sending those two out and the controllable assets coming back would allow the Twins to invest in plugging some of their obvious holes---like SS. (Story or Baez)?? I've always liked Kepler. But he's terribly frustrating to watch. Lately he's been going opposite field with some ropes. Is this a trend ? I don't know. But his Baseball Trade Value is about 34-35. That's VALUE ! Some pitching rich team with a need for a LH OF bat would be a good match.

Right now the Twins rotation projects to be a mess next season, even if they sign Berrios long term and Maeda regains his command. SOMEONE out of Balazovic, Canterino, Enlow, Ober and Duran needs to step up.

This is a trade that is inevitable. I've LOVED his time here and will probably root for whatever team gets him in the post season, but this year just didn't work out for the Twins. Move Nellie to a contender and get something back that could help us in a year or two. I'm not expecting a 1987 Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz return (remember, Alexander went 10-1 for the Tigers) but the Twins should get something "useful" for Nellie.

Either trade would be pretty good...even though I'm not overly eager to trade Berrios/Rogers. As a Twins fan #1 and a Dodgers fan #2 I would be O.K. with the Dodgers deal. Berrios is durable and dependable. May is coming back from Tommy John surgery. And Rogers gives the Dodgers a dependable LH arm out of the bullpen who could possibly close in 2022. However, even though the trade adds up in San Diego's favor, I like Hassell and Weathers. THAT would be a trade that (I can't believe I'm saying this) would be HAPPY with. Weathers is just 21. Hassell is just 19. These are guys you can build around for years. The other two are good filler with "potential." I'd make this trade.

I would rather KEEP Rogers since I think he's been the only truly reliable arm in our pen for 3+ seasons. HOWEVER, since the genius known as "Rocco" sees fit to have a "closer by committee" and we've shown all year long that Colome, Robles and company are very good at blowing games I'm more inclined to move him than keep him if the prospect haul is outstanding. Heck, if you're not going to use your BEST to close let someone else have him. This might explain why the FO failed to sign a closer of note and went with bargain basement guys. If your manager doesn't really know HOW to use a closer why employ one and then ultimately have to PAY one.

I too was a big fan of Max since he came up. His inability to use the whole field (especially against LHP) is killing him. I hate to say this, because the Pohlad's should operate us like the St. Louis Cardinals and not the Tampa Bay Rays, but Max is just too "pricey" to be a 4th OF'er. Trading him seems to be the best solution. According to Baseball Trade Values, Kepler still has a value of about 34.0. That kind of value could bring some serious talent back in a trade. Maybe Max will have his value "revised and downgraded." But at 34.0 he's got LOTS of value where you could move him for young pitching or a team with a lot of young SS talent.

I'm hoping the plan is a re-tool, but still with some major changes. You've laid the basic premise out nicely Mike8791. I'm going to go with the easy stuff first: Cut bait on Sano. Either move him at the trade deadline for a bag of baseballs (for salary relief) or simply buy him out for $2.75 million at seasons end and be done with him. Look for takers on Max Kepler. I don't think Max will ever get back to his 2019 form. I wonder how much of a mirage that was for a LOT of our players. But he is still a very good defensive RF'er. He has value and should be moved to a team looking for OF help. I would leave our catching personnel alone. Jeffers and Rortvedt are struggling offensively but should improve. Garver can be used as a catcher/1B/DH type of bat. I'm not averse to moving Donaldson for the right package. Arraez can hold down 3B and/or Miranda. Cruz COULD be dealt for the right package but I'd be O.K. if we kept him. It depends what teams would be willing to part with. I'd be happy to keep Nellie for another year. With Donaldson, Sano and Kepler gone that would be about $40-$45 million freed up. Some of that would be used to re-sign Berrios and Buxton. The rest, to plug holes. And there are plenty of holes. I don't think Simmons is back with the Twins next year. I don't think Lewis will be a SS in the future and with him missing the entire season this year he can't be counted on for anything until late next season at the best. This means serious money needs to be allocated for a long-term SS. I see Story and Baez as targets. Polanco belongs at 2B. If this team hopes to be relevant the next 2-3 years they need a SS !! One other point: I've finally, after a lot of musing, decided that between Berrios and Buxton if I keep one and part ways with the other, would keep Berrios. PITCHING is what will make the Twins a playoff-competitive team. it ALWAYS is. Look back on Twins history. In 1962-63 they pitched and finished 2nd & 3rd to the Yankees. In 1964 they had GREAT hitting, but didn't pitch well and finished 7th ! In 1965 they pitched and won the A.L. Pennant despite missing Killebrew for half the season. In 1966 & 1967 they pitched and were runner-ups. In 1969 & 1970 their pitching was good and they won the division. Fast forward to last year. They won the division because they pitched much better than they hit. We will NOT be better next year, if, as a team that has pitching issues, we trade Berrios or Rogers. We could possibly be better without Pineda but NOT without Berrios. In the entire time Buxton has been a Twin it seems like he's played in half the games. We've learned how to play without him and still be good. Are we better WITH him ?? Clearly, we are. But if I'm going to make a blockbuster and get an insane return of value for a player, I part with Buxton (who was playing like an A.L. MVP). We do NOT trade Buxton for anything less than an insane return. Someone either blows us away, or we give him a 3-year $80 million dollar contract and see what the next 3-years turns out to be. If we DO deal Buxton, acquire someone like Kevin Kiermaier to play CF if you don't think Celestino will work out. And you still have Lewis (who I think will end up in CF). There has been more disappointment/failure with this front office than successes. I must admit, I'm not very confident they can turn things around. The White Sox are crushing the division (as was predicted) despite losing Robert and Jimenez for the entire season to date. And the White Sox has some young pitchers who are impressive. Cleveland can flat out pitch. The Tigers have some very impressive young arms. This FO has to figure this out or we're looking at another decade of mediocrity. Time will tell.

I, like LA Vikes Fan have been advocating KEEPING Rogers because he's been the only guy you could count on in what have been good Twins bullpens and now a BAD Twins bullpen. The question becomes, if you do any of these deals (and I like the Astros deal the best with the Mets deal #2) what do you do for your BP in 2022 ?? If Rogers is truly your only dependable arm, what pieces do you add to next year's BP to be BETTER ?? The Twins have not YET gotten better after dealing Ryan Pressley. The Astros sure did. We're still waiting. I want and I believe the Twins can be better next year. When we've been good, it's because we've pitched well. Do we get better next year WITHOUT Rogers ?? I'm not sure we do.

I agree with Doc Bauer, this year has been a LOT like 2018. Every move the vaunted FO made for 2018 blew up in their faces. This season has been a repeat. Falvey and Levine handed Molitor a crap roster in 2018 and then used the 100 loss season to fire him. I'm not advocating for the Twins to fire Rocco, but let's be honest, Rocco has had a BAD year. Here's a wild idea...Trade Donaldson and Simmons to the Mets for Lindor. The Mets are supposedly worried about going over the luxury tax and Mets fans, based on the comments from the link are very DOWN on Lindor. Let's take Lindor off their hands. Whatever you think of that crazy idea, the Twins need to move Donaldson. They need a SS (either Lindor in the trade or a Story/Baez move next year).