insagt1

Yeah, but in years past, how often did they remove Sano, for any reason in the middle of a game?

gotta say, Twins are taking some of the ugliest swings this inning. Buxton waved at 3 pitches low and inside. Same with Polonco. And Correa really isn't hitting much anymore. Couple that with the lack of pitching and Twins will very shortly be fighting for the final wild card. At 10-1, Twins are mailing it in. Boy do they look awful tonite.

5 HR's and a complete disintegration. Ryan had nothing and another Twins starter can't make it thru 5 innings. This one is a continuation of the ugliness of the previous game with Milwaukee. Guardians are once again on our doorstep. Sano is a total waste. I can't see him playing past Aug 2nd...unless the injuries pile up and they have to use him. His AB's tonite are vintage Sano when he isn't locked in. Can't waste anymore time watching the Twins pitchers get knocked around and the hitters continue to fail. Tonite's lineup is pretty weak. Ouch.

Someone mentioned Arraez earlier on...wondering what will happen with him. He is the de facto AL batting champ that makes regular contact on a team that strikes out like crazy. His name should be so far off the table as to be invisible. Twins have not done well with their division leading brethren so far. Yanks, Stros, Brew....when the competition gets tough, Twins are an also-ran. Their pitching can't keep up and the hitting is woefully inconsistent...as all those shutouts will attest. Still...they can win a division and get to the dance., so thats the goal, without mortgaging the farm. But they can't win with the pitching staff they currently have. No possible way.

Is there a way the Twins can just concede? On a day when Arraez strikes out twice and Twins are throwing batting practice...when they aren't walking the ballpark....this 'battle of division leaders' is a massacre. This game showcases everything thats wrong with the team. They don't have starting pitching...and the gassed bullpen is just a mess too. That 4th inning was tough to watch. And it didn't get better. Our hitters look silly. Its just flat out a horrible baseball game. they really needed to win last night. The Front Office had better be burning up the wires in search of a boatload of arms. Kepler is hurt; Larnach is hurt...two trade chips that might not be real tradable. Sano is as good as gone. He is just a spare part. Anyway...raise the white flag before Milwaukee scores 20 today.

interesting to me that Sano batted 9th and was removed after going 0-2 with a 'k'. I have to think Twins are letting him get a few AB's as a courtesy to what he has done as a Twin. There is no place for him anymore. He may catch fire for awhile, but I wouldn't it bet on it. I think he'll be gone soon.

Its not how many you give up, it's WHEN. If its 6-6 in the 8th...its like a new game. Your pitcher can't give up runs then. Closers are paid to get that done more often than not. Twins don't have any shutdown pitchers and this year the starters seem to be allergic to pitching more than 3 or 4 innings. Blame is a useless exercise...but last night it was on the bullpen, no question. Their guys were nails, ours were noodles.

Twins just have to get more than 4 innings from their starters. It is getting ridiculous how the starters are going this season. Duffy--he was terrible last night. The first role for anyone pitching late in the game MUST be throw strikes. Duran was lucky he got the call to end the 8th. Great framing by the catcher I feel saved his bacon. Duffy came in and was all over the place. If you're gonna lose, make the other guy hit the ball. But Duran was also very wild. Neither one last night exuded confidence in a tie game. I'm also not impressed with Pagan at all. He hasn't gotten any better as the season wears on. I was hoping though that the game winning SF was going to go foul. In that case you would want the right fielder to let it drop, correct? Because once he catches it, game over. Do players think about that in the heat of the moment. Do the coaches scream, 'let it drop'..if they are pretty sure it will be foul. The pessimist in me still thought, even if it was foul and left alone, Duffy would have walked in the winning run anyway. Hader is not perfect, but more often than not, he comes in and quickly gets the job done by throwing strikes. Neither Duran nor Duffy did that last night so the end result was not surprising...just disappointing. I'd rather lose a game with a 400 ft HR than have walks in the 9th factor in the defeat.

Unless they could score some huge pitching improvement, no. As it is, the lineup isn't really working this year. And even Arraez is going thru his biggest slump --only 4 for his last 26, which has seen his outworldly BA slide to .338. Neither Correa or Buxton have reached the heights the Twins frankly expected. Buck has 23 dingers, but thats it., and his 'k' count is very concerning along with a BA and OBP substantially sub-par. Correa flirted briefly with .300 but July hasn't been particularly kind to him. Up and down the lineup, not too many Twins are enjoying great success at the plate, consistently. We are seeing glimmers from Miranda and finally Kirilloff and thank goodness for that. Dumping Correa now would create chaos, since there really isn't a replacement for him. And the Twins are still very much in contention, even though they are definitely trending in the wrong direction at the moment.

Actually thats pretty funny. Most pitching staffs today just carry pitchers who can go between 1 and 3 innings. The concept of starter, middle relief set up and closer is long gone.

If we knew that, we would be running the team!! We'll get there one day

Definitely Sano is not in the Twins future so move him as quickly as you can. He isn't magically going to stop striking out. There isn't room for him anymore. If suddenly twins catch lightning in a bottle with Sano he hangs around till season is done then he's gone. Either way his days are numbered in Minnesota. Any return they get for him will be very small.

Look at history. For decades starters we're supposed to pitch deep into games. Today there are so many stats clogging up the works everything has been analyzed to death. So you have a staff of starters now conditioned to only pitch a handful of innings and a seriously overused bullpen. The game has gone cockeyed. Does everyone have to throw 100 mph to get hitters out today? I look at the 1971 Orioles pitching staff and remember when watching the good pitchers ply their craft was sheer fun. Today you are a star if your ERA is 4.00 and you somehow struggle thru 5 innings.

I think the general consensus is pretty clear. Almost no one here really thinks the Twins can win the Series this year. Again, only one team can win it all. But competing for it is better than not competing for it. Twins haven't won a playoff game since Lincoln was President, I get that, but every year they go to the dance, at least they have a shot. One day, they WILL win a game or a series or two. If they were buried in last place, this whole discussion would probably be moot. The fact that they have stumbled their way to the top, in a weak division, at least allows for the fun at the ballpark. I don't want them to mortgage the farm just to 'sneak in' this year. I don't think anyone does. OTOH, I also don't want them to take the position that this season doesn't matter either. Its an interesting balance that the FO has to deal with. Let's see where it all goes.

very interesting discussion for sure. There have always been two schools: one says if you are winning, try to win. The other says always look to the future--even if the future never arrives and never be satisfied. In pro sports, winning is always more important and more fun than losing. Making post season is always more exciting for fans than saying, well we have a 5 year plan (that might never work). People buy tickets NOW, to watch the team NOW. So if you have a shot, you take it. Gretzky always said 100% of the shots you never take aren't goals. You don't miss out on getting to the dance just because the other participants are better. There can only be one world series winner...that means everyone else didn't win, but they competed. I am and have been leery for years about these '5 year plans'.. which to me often mean an excuse in case they don't work. Bird in the hand. It may only be a sparrow, but would Twins fans trade places with the Nationals, or Royals, or A's? How much fun were the games after the ASG last year for Twins fans? They were meaningless. I absolutely hate what has happened to pitching in baseball. suddenly before our eyes, the starting pitcher has become obsolete. For over a century this was never a problem, Why now can a starter not go more than 4 innings. Why are pitchers removed from games where they are pitching no-hitters? That folks...NEVER happened in years past. So what we have is a gassed, worn out bullpen, along with starters who just can't do their jobs. Twins need pitching, ANY kind of pitching. They need someone who can shut the game down in the 9th. (they have no one) They need starters who know when handed the ball that they will be out there 6 or 7 innings, minimally. Whatever they can do in the next couple weeks to keep the team competitive will be good. No point in saying 'wait till next year' when this year is still on the table, right? In my short wish list I would like to see Sano traded (or released...there is no room for him); I want Correa and Buxton to play like superstars again. (they haven't) I'd like to Arraez win the batting title. I'd like to see Polo and Kepler have better 2nd halves. And I want the Twins to compete with Cleveland and Chicago right to the end.

Adam Brett Walker...man he hit some of the longest HR's in Red Wings history. They were Luke Easter-esque (for those old enough to remember the Rochester Icon) But he struck out so much its easy to see why Twins gave up on him. They have a history of players who strike out too much. Still when he connected, it was pretty exciting. Arcia..another one who should have been better. In his last stint with Rochester, he completely fell apart. One prospect I thought should have made it was Michael Restovich. He had such a sweet swing and tons of potential...just never materialized. Toss in Terry Tiffee, Josh Rabe,Alexi Casilla, Danny Valencia and of course who can forget Boof Bonser!!

I agree with all those who feel the Twins are a mess right now. Only reason they are in 1st is because Cleveland and Chicago haven't hit their stride yet. But both have demonstrated they can beat the Twins pretty regularly now. You can't win without pitching. (yes, we have 13 pitchers...but are they any good?) While the term is overrated and overused, Twins don't have anything close to a 'closer' or shutdown pitcher. The bullpen is shot...when you must use 6 and 7 pitchers every night (or so it seems), its easy to see they are gassed. The starters rarely make it thru 5 innings anymore, and if they do its not the 'quality start'. The hitters are also not carrying their weight. Can you think of a weaker starting outfielder in an All Star Game than Buxton? He has 23 HR's..thats where it stops. He is barely a .200 hitter this year and his 'k' total is Sano-esque. In short, he looks awful up there now. Team has been blanked 11 times. there are far too many games where the offense just doesn't show up. Is this really a 1st place team? No it isn't. Are they like Atlanta last year? Time will tell. Can they get things straightened out going forward? Maybe. Will Sano help? Doubtful. Will Twins make some trades by August 1st? I think so. Will they still be in 1st place by the end of the month? Probably not. After last season, were our expectations for this team too high? Probably. Most would say they have already over-achieved. But this is why they play the games, right? No one could have imagined the 110 loss Orioles to be .500 right now. You just never know. We can't lose hope, but at the same time we need to be realistic. I'd love to see monster 2nd half's from Buck, Polo, Correa and Kepler (if he's still around)

What has been lost in these discussions and which I believe has contributed the most to the bullpen failures is the demise of the starting pitcher. I don't know when this actually started for real, but starters now don't seem to be able (or want) to pitch more than 3 or 4 innings. So many are being removed before they even qualify for a 'win'. Complete games are totally gone. When you have to start using your pen, every night, in the 4th inning or 5th...sure your pen will be gassed. I'd love it if the starters returned to the landscape again...like they did for over the past century. that would surely help.

Twins are sinking fast and in dire need of pitching...to go along with their hit or miss lineup. Correa and Buxton are not playing the 'superstar' roles they were signed to play. Both have really gotten the 'k' bug, especially Buxton, who hasn't had a start without a k in probably a month. Correa just hasn't been that exciting. At least from how I have seen him. Good, but not exceptional. Sometimes, not good. For Twins to finish on top they definitely need pitching, real soon. Nobody is standing out right now. Who could they trade? Perhaps some AAA or AA talent? Maybe a package of Kepler, Celestino, Garlick, Sano, Sanchez? I'd not touch Kirilloff, Gordon, Miranda. or Polanco. Which is more impt...bullpen or starters? I'd say both are a mess right now. They have a ton of games left with Chicago so its not a stretch to see the Sox overtake the Twins with relative ease the way things are trending. I'm just not real confident this team is very good. they caught a break early on when Cleve and Chi were also struggling..but I think both are better than the Twins, at least the way the Twins are now playing (which is painful)

Nice redemption from Miranda after that terrible pop up to the mound his previous AB. Thats how its done!! But on a more sobering note, Buxton is completely lost at sea these days. He is k'ing with the same frequency as our buddy Sano. Don't think he really deserved the allstar nod. He is a mess right now...for the 2nd time this season, he is contributing nothing at the plate but the odd and very infrequent long ball. Is this who he really is? A career .240 hitter who right now is barely over .200? If I'm the Twins, I'm real worried about this guy, but I guarantee they won't say they are concerned. The 'eye test' every AB speaks loudly. Are his sore knees affecting his swing, or rhythm? Right now, he's an automatic out. Plate appearances today were sad.

No Arraez today? Our best hitter sitting it out? Don't see a lot of room for optimism today frankly. The team is just not playing well at the moment. Pitching has been pretty bad and the offense is leaving men on base by the bucketful. But, a win today would be very helpful since Cle and Chi are slugging it out. Twins have a lot of problems.

They won't accomplish much based on the current pitching staff. They played a very lacklustre game last night. Once they fell behind, they just sort of closed up shop. To make the playoffs they will have to win the division. Since their competition is also just stumbling along, they could still win the division. But they can't compete with 'the big boys' and an early exit is probable,..again. Also, some of their top hitters are not having great seasons. That is a continuing problem. Buxton has become an all or nothing hitter and over long stretches, it has been mostly nothing. Correa is slumping. Kepler and Polanco are up and down. Jeffers has been a huge disappointment. Celestino had a good first month but since then he is the hitter he was last year. And so it goes. the team is seriously flawed but have benefitted from a weak division. Right the ship? Only if some changes are made and key players start to contribute again.

Buxton is certainly an anomoly of sorts. Growing up thru the 50's and 60's, I can't remember ever seeing someone in the ASG with a BA of .215! His value to the team, when healthy, can't be overstated. But it does trouble me that right now he isn't hitting a lick..save the odd HR. His 'd' is unparalleled. But there certainly is room for improvement.

Most may not agree but something is nagging at me. If you look strictly at the stats (and nothing else) is Buxton really another Sano? Buck's career BA is around .240ish which is higher than Sano's but not appreciably so. They both hit HR's and they both strike out a ton. Bucks 'k' total this year has been alarming to me...one of the highest in the AL. Buck is no longer stealing bases, at all. Granted his HR's are usually game deciders, but still he isn't getting on base as much as we would like, is he? Buck's defense is clearly much better than Sano's. Still, I have to wonder why he was selected to the ASG frankly. He has been kind of an enigma this season. In their secret moments, given how much he has been 'protected' and pampered this season, to keep him in the lineup, I have to wonder if the Twins expect a bit more than a BA in the low .200's with a ton of strikeouts and not able to use his blinding speed to turn walks into doubles. Make no mistake, he is still a marquee player, but he has gone thru a couple of real bad slumps. Do we feel he needs to be better 2nd half? Or is everyone satisfied with what he is contributing? Just wondering, not criticizing, but observing.

It's still hilarious when you are 4.5 games ahead! The pen is a trainwreck..but what ever happened to the player they called 'starting pitcher'.. he's gone. No one has any. Every game requires 5 or 6 pitchers. That's just plain wrong.