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    Ricky Nolasco Waiting To Blow Up?


    Ted Schwerzler

    We may not have seen the worst of Ricky Nolasco yet.

    Prior to the 2014 MLB season, the Minnesota Twins and Terry Ryan realized they had a deficiency. Coming off of yet another 9-loss season, the team's starting pitching was nowhere close to what it needed to be to compete. The answer was to scour the free agent market, and bring in outside help. Ryan landed two fresh arms that offseason, one has worked out, and the other one hasn't.

    Image courtesy of Tim Fuller-USA TODAY Sports

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    In terms of performance, the Twins put themselves in a less than advantageous situation from the get go when they signed Nolasco. He was largely a middle-of-the-road pitcher in the National League. Despite being considered an ace at times for some relatively poor Marlins teams, he'd pitched to the tune of a sub 4.00 ERA just twice in his first eight seasons (2008, 2013). Nolasco's FIP generally hovered somewhere in the mid 3's, and arguably his greatest asset was in being known as an innings eater.

    Not a big strikeout guy, owning just a 7.4 K/9 mark, Nolasco was not likely to overpower hitters in the tougher American League. Surrendering just south of 10 hits (9.5/H9) per game, his pitch-to-contact style is one with which Twins fans come to grow tired. Despite the many warning signs, it was Nolasco (and not the more realistic Phil Hughes) who commanded a $12.25m average annual value from the Twins over the next four years.

    Entering their first season with the Twins, Hughes and Nolasco were the two pitchers brought in to change the rotation. While Hughes had been burned by homers, he was two years Nolasco's junior, and had a higher ceiling. As expected by some, Hughes has succeeded (arguably much better than assumed) and Nolasco has struggled.

    Now with one ugly (5.38 ERA in 27 starts during 2014) season under his belt, and one injury-riddled one (just 37.1 IP in 2015), Nolasco finds himself at a crossroads. In his Twins career, he's compiled a 5.64 ERA, 4.15 FIP, while striking out just 6.9 per nine, and offering little to no reliability. Considering the output, the Californian should be owed nothing, except he is...another $24m over the next two years.

    That brings us to where we are now. Without a guaranteed rotation spot, Nolasco enters 2016 on the outside looking in. A less than ideal situation for a starter, Darren Wolfson of 1500 ESPN asked Nolasco's agent (Matt Sosnick) about the situation and potentially working out of relief. Here's that response:

    Quote

    Ricky has been an effective starter in the big leagues for ten seasons. Last year was an injury filled season, and he certainly deserves to show the Twins what he looks like without trying to pitch through the pain. The Twins evaluate talent very well, and their minor league system is a testament to the time and effort they put into that part of the game. They paid Ricky almost 50M dollars two years ago based on the totality of his work. I won't believe he is not in the rotation until I see it.

    If the club believers he is better suited for a relief role, Ricky has made it clear to me that he would directly address his feeling of disappointment to his manager and the GM, and that he would ask the team about his other options.

    There's little room to mince words in the statements above. Nolasco is clearly under the impression he's one of the Twins best five starting pitchers, and opposition to that is going to be an issue. This leads us to the reality that things could get worse.

    With Phil Hughes, Ervin Santana and Kyle Gibson already rotation locks, there are just two spots left in the starting five. Paul Molitor has all but said Tyler Duffey will get one of them, and Tommy Milone has done nothing to lose his role. Nolasco in relief seems like the most plausible option. But then again, it really doesn't.

    A handful of different scenarios have been thrown around as to how to handle Nolasco. In seeing the way in which Mike Pelfrey took a bullpen demotion a season ago, expecting it to go better with Nolasco is probably foolish. The reality is that putting Nolasco into the pen is a square peg going into a round hole; it's only a way for the Twins to utilize some of their already sunk cost in his contract. Trading Nolasco also would seem an uphill battle. The return would no doubt be pennies on the dollar, and a guy who's shown very little ability over the past two seasons doesn't have much value.

    This leads us to my preferred solution. Nolasco wants to start, and there's little reason to believe he walks away from his hefty paycheck. Minnesota can DFA Ricky, removing him from the 40-man roster as he passes through waivers unclaimed. If he accepts it, that would allow him to start at Triple-A Rochester. In this scenario, he continues to start, staying stretched out, and can be a fallback option if and when injuries occur at the big league level.

    However, no doubt the move would be met with some angst from the Nolasco camp, and he could definitely refuse the assignment (due to having five years of service time). If he's dead set on starting though, and wants to play hardball with Minnesota, Ryan has some options at his disposal.

    At the end of the day, Minnesota has a glut of high-ceiling relievers nearly ready for the big league level. Forcing Nolasco to the pen simply to get use out of him, over the roster inclusion of a player such as Alex Meyer, Nick Burdi, J.R. Graham, or some other MLB ready pen commodity, would be less than ideal. The hope would be that Ricky Nolasco can turn his performance around, but this situation, at least from a personnel standpoint, is likely going to get worse before it gets better.

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    my opp BABIP would be about .800 too, not because they're lucky tho, BECAUSE I SUCK. thats the same deal with Ricky

     

    Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, Tyson Ross, Lance Lynn, and Carlos Martinez were all top 10 in the league in highest BABIP against... They must suck, right?

    Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, Tyson Ross, Lance Lynn, and Carlos Martinez were all top 10 in the league in highest BABIP against... They must suck, right?

    Very true but one of my biggest problems with commonly-used advanced metrics is that they fail to acknowledge some things aren't luck-based. It's hard to normalize a pitcher who gives up frozen ropes all over the field.

     

    See Nolasco, Ricky. His 2014 wasn't unlucky; he was an awful pitcher. Hitters didn't squeak through a hit or two, they were squaring up on him and drilling the ball.

     

    But your point about BABIP is correct, my point is more about SLG and that normalizing some performances make them less accurate, not more. Ricky deserved every bit of that 5.30 ERA in 2014.

    Thrylos grasping at straws is about as bad as Nolasco's performance on the mound.

    Nolasco and Milone are both awful pitchers. Get real.

    ERA+ since 2012 (all pitchers well over 500 innings)

     

    Milone 99

    Santana 96

    Hughes 96

    Nolasco 85

     

    The various ERA estimators converge with ERA at 500 innings. ERA is meaningful at this sample.

    Edited by jorgenswest

    Very true but one of my biggest problems with commonly-used advanced metrics is that they fail to acknowledge some things aren't luck-based. It's hard to normalize a pitcher who gives up frozen ropes all over the field.

    Some people already complain that modern stats are too complicated. But these stats often contain a simplifying assumption that only highly-talented players (i.e. those who can hold onto a MLB job) are being measured. If a truly universal stat were devised, to measure pitchers on a spectrum from you or me to Clayton Kershaw, how much more arcane might it become?

    Some people already complain that modern stats are too complicated. But these stats often contain a simplifying assumption that only highly-talented players (i.e. those who can hold onto a MLB job) are being measured. If a truly universal stat were devised, to measure pitchers on a spectrum from you or me to Clayton Kershaw, how much more arcane might it become?

    I'm not saying metrics should necessarily change, only pointing out there are outliers (usually in the direction of "terrible") where the metrics shouldn't be used (or at least taken with a grain of salt).

     

    For the vast majority of players, they're useful. For a few really crappy players, they normalize things and make those terrible players look better.

     

    Very true but one of my biggest problems with commonly-used advanced metrics is that they fail to acknowledge some things aren't luck-based. It's hard to normalize a pitcher who gives up frozen ropes all over the field.

    See Nolasco, Ricky. His 2014 wasn't unlucky; he was an awful pitcher. Hitters didn't squeak through a hit or two, they were squaring up on him and drilling the ball.

    But your point about BABIP is correct, my point is more about SLG and that normalizing some performances make them less accurate, not more. Ricky deserved every bit of that 5.30 ERA in 2014.

     

    I wasn't trying to offer commentary on Nolasco, strictly was saying its absurd to say if you have a high BABIP against you must suck

     

    See what I mean?  There is bias

     

    Perkins was by far not the best closer in the AL even when healthy (how do you measure that?)  

    For what is worth in the first half Perkins ranked among AL relievers:

     

    3rd BB/9, 4th ERA, 6th WAR, 7th in WHIP, 11th FIP, 20th in SIERA, 23rd xFIP, 38th K/9

     

    Not best by any means.

     

    And Nolasco was not healthy last season by any means.  Plus, I'd love to see how you predict that unlikely to succeed in the AL bit.   Better FIP and K/9 than Milone with the Twins and close to those of E. Santana and Gibson with the Twins.  How about their possibilities to succeed in the AL?

     

    Perkins until the break last year converted 28 straight saves to the tune of a 1.21 ERA .188/.217/.246 slash line. If you're looking for your lock down guy to do more than that, I can't help you.

     

    Nolasco owned a 4.37 ERA a 3.76 FIP with a 7.4 K/9 in the NL. Those numbers are essentially middle of the rotation type. They were going to go down in the tougher AL, almost guaranteed.

    I guess I'm not sure what the confusion is there...

     

    You know, I think that tweet of Nolasco's was waaaaaaaaay overblown, and still is, what, a year and half later. A fan of his said wishe you were here, why wouldn't he say 'So do I.' I would have, too, since the Twins did nothing and the Dodgers were in the playoffs that year. Big deal. And everyone is still cursing him for it. I should have used this for GET OVER IT Day! ;) While this latest bit isn't endearing in the least, maybe have some fan support behind him could help boost his performance instead of wanting nothing to do where he's at. Yeah, he's a professional, act like it, but I think fan reaction with this has made it impossible.

    Well, that tweet along with the recent nonsense regarding a move to the bullpen isn't endearing to MN fans. I tend to think MN fans are much more forgiving of a players failings than a lot of MLB fans. However, it is a two way street, in that a player also has to show he is willing to put forth the effort to earn the respect of the fans. Beyond a certain point, a player needs to have success in order to maintain the respect of the fan base.

     

    I suggest that as of right now, Mr. Nolasco is on probation, at best.

     

    I believe I have posted this in the past, but based on my observations of his twitter posts ever since he signed with the Twins, I always got the feeling that Nolasco's heart really isn't in Minnesota. I don't think he really wanted to come to Minnesota, he just signed because of the money the Twins offered him.

     

    You can refute that all you want (e.g. say that many players sign the biggest contracts they are offered), but he's the only Twins player that I've gotten that vibe from. This isn't new, I've felt this way for the last couple of years. I just never got the feeling that he's ever really been happy in Minnesota. So this news really doesn't surprise me at all.

    I know this is the perception I have and I cannot believe we're the only ones.

     

    I agree the tweet is overblown. He was immature to tweet back "So do I!!!!!!!!!!!!!" in response to the Dodgers fan, and us fans are immature for reading into a tweet in the first place. 

     

     

    We'll the saying "it is what it is" holds meaning here.  So while i agree he was immature to tweet back the extra emphasis (explanation points) says it all.  I don't think the fans are being immature for "reading into that tweet."  It's obvious he's not happy here and only came for the pay day.  

     

    I wasn't trying to offer commentary on Nolasco, strictly was saying its absurd to say if you have a high BABIP against you must suck

    Oh, sure. We agree on that, obviously... But I cringe every time I see someone post Nolasco's Minnesota FIP as proof of anything (I believe someone else in the thread used the number, not you).

     

    He was a terrible pitcher in 2014. Terrible. It wasn't luck-related. He was just bad.

    Jeff Sullivan wrote this during the 2013 season.

     

    "When a guy’s ERA doesn’t match his FIP for a year, usually we don’t mind it. We blame it on sequencing or coincidence. Two years, still, it can be noise. But between 2006-2012, Nolasco threw more than 1,100 innings, which is a pretty enormous sample size. There was reason to believe this was a serious problem."

     

    Several hundred innings later and the discrepancy between his performance and peripherals hasn't changed.

    I don't know how you can compare Perkins to Nolasco.  Nolasco was by FAR the better team player last year, by taking the year off.  If he struggles again this spring, and April, I'm sure he can develop another ailment landing him on the 180 DL.  Now THAT'S a Team Player!  

     

    a.  The new team would have to fulfill his current contract

    b. It is his right as a 5+ year MLB veteran.  At that point the Twins have the choice of either keeping him on their 25 man roster or releasing him (and thus have him become a free agent.)  In both choices the Twins will have to fulfill his current contract (ie. have to pay him.) 

    Not quite. There's 3 things that can happen if he refuses assignment.  You're right about the first one. The second is if he go's unclaimed he can just not play. He get's paid to not play, but the Twins still control his rights. The third is that Nolasco can choose free agency. He forfeits his contract if he does that, so it would never happen.

     

    You know, I think that tweet of Nolasco's was waaaaaaaaay overblown, and still is, what, a year and half later. A fan of his said wishe you were here, why wouldn't he say 'So do I.' I would have, too, since the Twins did nothing and the Dodgers were in the playoffs that year. Big deal. And everyone is still cursing him for it. I should have used this for GET OVER IT Day! ;) While this latest bit isn't endearing in the least, maybe have some fan support behind him could help boost his performance instead of wanting nothing to do where he's at. Yeah, he's a professional, act like it, but I think fan reaction with this has made it impossible.

     

    It wasn't just that one tweet. It was multiple tweets / sources. When you consider that tweet, plus the fact that he was still proudly wearing his dodgers hat out in public after signing / playing with the Twins and then if I recall correctly he posted something or replied to a fan something along the lines of that he can't wait to get back home or can't wait to get back to California or something along those lines. It's been a while now, so I forget how it was worded.

     

    And I haven't even been reading his tweets over the last year or so. I'm sure there's more evidence out there.

     

    The point is, when you read any other Twins players' tweets they are proud to be a Twin or are talking about winning as a Twin or hanging out with other Twins players etc.. When I read his, he always seemed like he at best only had one of his baby toes in the organization. I just never got the feeling that he's really embraced being a Twin.

     

    Then when these articles / threads on here pop up about his current attitude / state of mind / level of play, well hello! It doesn't surprise me at all.

     

    Deny Deny Deny all you want, but for me this has all been way too predictable.

     

    Edited by Reider

    It wasn't just that one tweet. It was multiple tweets / sources. When you consider that tweet, plus the fact that he was still proudly wearing his dodgers hat out in public after signing / playing with the Twins and then if I recall correctly he posted something or replied to a fan something along the lines of that he can't wait to get back home or can't wait to get back to California or something along those lines. It's been a while now, so I forget how it was worded.

     

    And I haven't even been reading his tweets over the last year or so. I'm sure there's more evidence out there.

     

    The point is, when you read any other Twins players' tweets they are proud to be a Twin or are talking about winning as a Twin or hanging out with other Twins players etc.. When I read his, he always seemed like he at best only had one of his baby toes in the organization. I just never got the feeling that he's really embraced being a Twin.

     

    Then when these articles / threads on here pop up about his current attitude / state of mind / level of play, well hello! It doesn't surprise me at all.

     

    Deny Deny Deny all you want, but for me this has all been way too predictable.

    It was way overblown, IMO. I think fans read into it waaaaaaaaaaay too much and interpreted his 'I do too!!!!!!' to mean 'I hate being a Twin!!!!!!!' Is he supposed to wear a Twins hat wherever he goes? Is he supposed to reply to an enthusiastic fan 'I don't, so get over it!!!!!!!!!' That said, could he have handled it better? Omg, yes! I don't like Nolasco for what he's done on the mound ... or rather what he hasn't done, not because insecure fans are crying boo hoo over a tweet, a tweet that happened 18 months ago. While I doubt it, just maybe our actions have done nothing to help th situation. But then, that's not our jobs, either.

     

    Not quite. There's 3 things that can happen if he refuses assignment.  You're right about the first one. The second is if he go's unclaimed he can just not play. He get's paid to not play, but the Twins still control his rights. The third is that Nolasco can choose free agency. He forfeits his contract if he does that, so it would never happen.

    Never say never. It would rarely happen. Nishioka walked out on the last year of his contract, leaving money on the Twins' table.

    On a tangential note I am kind of surprised Molitor and Twins fans are so readily embracing Tyler Duffey for a rotation spot. He has had a handful of ML starts and not a great deal of High Minors experience. He essentially has only 2 pitches. Moreover he had extensive collegiate experience as a reliever and threw hard in that role. Trevor May has been a starter for most of his career and has 3 viable pitches. He also has a great deal more experience against ML and high minor's hitters. Would it not be logical that May would in fact be the 4th starter? I like both young pitchers but this seems like a better deployment of them. For my part I will not get too shook up whether Milone or Nolasco gets the 5th spot. The difference between those two in the Twins win column is likely zero.

    I don't like Nolasco for what he's done on the mound ... or rather what he hasn't done, not because insecure fans are crying boo hoo over a tweet, a tweet that happened 18 months ago.

    An insecure Minnesotan? Never heard of such a thing! We just want to be liked, and never have anyone say anything negative about our state, our teams, or our Funeral Hotdish!

     

    I don't know how you can compare Perkins to Nolasco.  Nolasco was by FAR the better team player last year, by taking the year off.  If he struggles again this spring, and April, I'm sure he can develop another ailment landing him on the 180 DL.  Now THAT'S a Team Player!  

    I don't consider a broken ankle an ailment.

     

    I don't consider a broken ankle an ailment.

    I'm guessing that broken ankle came from Molitor ordering Gene Glynn to do his imitation of Cathy Bates in Misery.  One road trip, and Nolasco's hobbled for the rest of the year, problem solved.  Same thing can happen this year if Nolasco proves to be completely ineffective, especially if he refuses to go to the bullpen.  .  

     

    Let's give Nolasco the same protection that Mauer is given on this site, and have this thread locked. There is too much negative talk about Nolasco here.

    This site has had a ton of Mauer bashing on it for quite some time. He's constantly been slammed no matter what or who the thread is about.   Finding a reason to slam Mauer and blame him and/or his contract  for our woes is like a sport in here.  

     

    Yes, finally a comment was made by the powers that be that maybe enough is enough in regards to him until something new to slam him about comes along.

     

    Let's not act as if it's never been allowed. He's taken more grief than all other Twins players combined on this site.

    Edited by jimmer

    Back to Nolasco:

     

    It's still only March 13th but has he already pitched his way out of the rotation conversation? His results are bad but I'm seeing the same problems I saw in 2014/15: hitters continue to square up on him and pull the ball. They're not squeaking through with walks and bloopers; they're drilling the ball.

    Yep not a good sign if he's not able to fool hitters. Even worse that hitters are tattooing his pitches.

     

    Unfortunately he's still at a 90+% chance at making the opening day roster. If financial obligations were taken out of the equation, I don't know how anyone can justify him being the 12-13th best P in the organization.




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