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    Joe Ryan and the Elephant in the Room

    The better Joe Ryan pitches, the more challenging of a situation the Twins front office may find themselves navigating later this summer.

    Nick Nelson
    Image courtesy of Jordan Johnson-Imagn Images

    Twins Video

    The MLB trade deadline is a little over two months from now, on August 3rd. That seems like a long time, but then again, Opening Day was that long ago and it feels like yesterday. As much as we might want to savor the current moment — a team playing well enough to stay relevant in a lackluster AL landscape, and a #1 starter who's unlocking yet another level of excellence — there are realities bearing down that the Twins front office cannot afford to brush aside.

    Joe Ryan is pitching as well as ever. He was good before the elbow scare that forced him out of a game in early May. and he's somehow been even better since. His 2.1 fWAR leads all Twins players and ranks fifth among MLB starters.

    If the Twins are to stay competitive and play meaningful games into September, as Tom Pohlad has decreed, they'll need Ryan to do it, especially if he keeps pitching like this. He's their best player. The quandary at hand: he's also their best trade chip, and their biggest opportunity to bolster the rebuild effort in profound ways.

    While they might not like to utter the word, this team is rebuilding. They're transitioning from a fading old guard (Royce Lewis, Matt Wallner) to an impending prospect wave. At last year's deadline, they dealt several key relievers for players who — while varying degrees of MLB-ready — were targeted for their longer-term control. They have to be looking ahead, but maybe not THAT far ahead.

    This is the emotional tug-of-war facing Minnesota's front office over the next two months. Ryan isn’t just the Twins’ best starter; he’s the kind of pitcher contenders empty farm systems to acquire. He’s under control through 2027. He misses bats, limits walks, thrives in big moments, and increasingly looks like someone capable of starting Game 1 of a playoff series for a true World Series threat.

    Those pitchers rarely become available with this much control remaining. When they do, the return can reshape an organization.

    That’s the cold logic. The perspective of the brain. But the heart might tell us that the Twins aren’t buried. They’re hovering around contention in an American League where mediocrity has become the norm. A good month could put them firmly in the playoff picture. 

    Trading Ryan while meaningful baseball remains on the table would feel, to many fans and players, like surrender. Again. After years of payroll cuts, injuries, and organizational drift, it would be another unmistakable signal that the franchise is prioritizing tomorrow over today. Same old, same old under "new leadership."

    Cold logic has its validity though. Pitchers are volatile assets, and Ryan already provided a scare this season. Having already seen Pablo López go down, the Twins know better than anyone how quickly the value of a frontline starter can evaporate. Ryan has previously dealt with shoulder and groin injuries, and every additional inning carries risk.

    That’s what makes this such an organizational crossroads. The heart says you owe it to the clubhouse and demoralized fanbase to keep pushing forward in a surprisingly open AL field. The brain says this may be the rare moment when timing, value and market demand align perfectly to accelerate the next truly sustainable contention window. 

    And the better Joe Ryan pitches between now and July, the louder that elephant in the room becomes.

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    2 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

    Well then your reply to me is just bad. We are in agreement yet here you are complaining about me saying the Pohlads are cheap instead of at the billionaire cheapskates. 

    We're discussing the merits of trading Ryan.  Fantasy "should" arguments are derailing and annoying.  It adds zero to the conversation.

    Want to start a "bash the billionaires" thread?  I'm in.  Here?  Pointless at best.

    1 minute ago, NYCTK said:

    Well, the Twins are one of the few that are regularly spending significantly under what their market size would suggest is feasible. So they're pretty unique in their cheapness. 

    You may be right.  Maybe their marketing and inability to get lucrative TV contracts is on them.  Or Maybe Minnesotan's just don't watch a lot of baseball or aren't willing to pay for it.  I honestly don't know the answer. 

    All I do know is they are included in the bottom ten teams for revenue generation and the more revenue you make the more you can spend on players and still make money.  For now since they are one of the bottom ten teams means they have less to spend. Which makes it very challenging to compete for a world series title.

    Just now, TheLeviathan said:

    We're discussing the merits of trading Ryan.  Fantasy "should" arguments are derailing and annoying.  It adds zero to the conversation.

    Want to start a "bash the billionaires" thread?  I'm in.  Here?  Pointless at best.

    My comment was in response to Nick feeling uncomfortable spending money on Ryan. In reality, that's the cowering abused dog response. The Twins could easily afford to pay Ryan. 

    And I'm someone that thinks it's actually better to trade him cause I don't think he'd even sign an extension offer. 

    1 minute ago, NYCTK said:

    My comment was in response to Nick feeling uncomfortable spending money on Ryan. In reality, that's the cowering abused dog response. The Twins could easily afford to pay Ryan. 

    And I'm someone that thinks it's actually better to trade him cause I don't think he'd even sign an extension offer. 

    Nick also made clear the track record on players over 30 is spotty but you blew through that to focus on the "should" argument.  I'm just over it.

    New CBA can't come fast enough.

    1 minute ago, Dman said:

    Maybe their marketing and inability to get lucrative TV contracts is on them.

    Correct. 

     

    4 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

    We're discussing the merits of trading Ryan.  Fantasy "should" arguments are derailing and annoying.  It adds zero to the conversation.

    Want to start a "bash the billionaires" thread?  I'm in.  Here?  Pointless at best.

    Trade or...resigning. Which is why the feasibility of signing him was mentioned. The barrier is not the money, but Ryan's willingness. 

    You wanna say I derail? You're the one that jumped it to say Should =/= out to, or something. I still don't even know what you were trying to say with that comment.

    2 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

    Nick also made clear the track record on players over 30 is spotty but you blew through that to focus on the "should" argument.  I'm just over it.

    New CBA can't come fast enough.

    He said "Large-market teams can afford it, which is why they're basically the only ones who make such deals." which is both not true and is the impetus of the conversation of payroll. You want to get mad at someone? Start there instead of the person replying to that comment. 

     

    Came here to say, a few years back Detroit traded Jack Flaherty for a good prospect return AND still made the playoffs. 

    I'm not saying this to say the Twins will make the playoffs. But if they do get a strong return for Ryan, that's not necessarily a bad thing. With how their starting rotation is shaping up, they can trade someone now who can bring a strong return and still be ok. That's especially true if he won't be extended here.

    Plus, is anyone else certain that he can ever have a full and healthy season? I suppose that's the same for every pitcher ever.

    Let's just say they get a good pitching prospect who is either at AA/AAA or already had a cup of coffee, along with a really good hitting prospect. Something stronger than what Duran brought back. Why would that be a bad thing when A) We don't know if there is a 2027 season and B) he probably won't be extended anyway.

    I'm good with it, is basically what I'm saying.

     

    Just now, Glorybound said:

    One has to ask if you were Joe Ryan would you sign an extension with the twins? 

    I don't know why he would. Maybe things have drastically improved on his end, but he went on record multiple times last season criticizing the organization and how things have been handled since the 2023 playoffs. 

    Are the Twins going to offer him the most money on the FA market? I highly, highly doubt it. 

    38 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

    Correct. 

     

    Trade or...resigning. Which is why the feasibility of signing him was mentioned. The barrier is not the money, but Ryan's willingness. 

    You wanna say I derail? You're the one that jumped it to say Should =/= out to, or something. I still don't even know what you were trying to say with that comment.

    He said "Large-market teams can afford it, which is why they're basically the only ones who make such deals." which is both not true and is the impetus of the conversation of payroll. You want to get mad at someone? Start there instead of the person replying to that comment. 

     

    Congrats, you've brought so much to the discussion.  

    9 hours ago, Dman said:

    Yeah the 2027 work stoppage does make you think twice about what to do with Ryan.  On the one hand it seems like they could move on from him with Pablo, Ober, Bradley, Abel, Matthews, Prielipp and Rojas in the wings performing at the MLB level. With SWR and a few others in long relief roles that could possibly be 5th starters in a pinch. If you trade Ryan for another close to ready arm plus extra the Twins would have plenty of quality arms to throw out there in a five man rotation with Quick, Soto and Hill hopefully working their way to AA this year they would also have some backup arms not too far away. 

    Still replacing a bit of a unicorn arm who when dialed in, is ace quality is no easy task. And if you decide to get the most value you can for him at the deadline what is it that you would be looking for without worsening the log jams that are already there? In the infield we already have Lee, Keacshal and Lewis with Culpepper nearly ready, with first round pick Houston not too far away and Ben Ross who has been looking really good lately not to mention they :Like Kriedler a bunch, but maybe Ross takes that role? So who is moving out to make room for some new guy added by trade?

    In the outfield We have a lot of prospects waiting for their turn in Roden, Rodriguez, Gonzalez and our number one prospect Jenkins.  Not to mention we still have Buxton, Larnach, Martin, and Wallner.  With other guys like Fedko and Mendez that could fill in.  Unless they are getting rid of guys there's no room in the outfield right now.

    So what would you trade Ryan for that you need more than Ryan at the deadline?  It would have to be a young (HS) top 25 prospect most likely. Someone or someone's to come up with the next wave.  Still they could just hang onto Ryan and go for a comp pick after the 2027 season as well and get their high school guy then.

    I'm just not sure what they can get that would be worth losing Ryan.  I'd guess more young pitching, but it's incredibly hard to develop that into a Joe Ryan type pitcher.  Still he is an asset and the Twins will have to decide how they feel about competing this year and in 2027 to decide if they value the prospect haul they could get versus what could happen this year and in 2027.  We'll see what they decide to do.

    Lewis is not part of any logjam in any way.

    10 hours ago, Wedman13 said:

    Would you pay the same for a car 1 year older with 50k miles versus 1 year newer with 35k?

    Sounds like a good example .... but I have bought more than a few cars that had high miles. The cars were in great shape and had been taken care of extremely well. For example, I bought a 1991 Audi 200 Quatro, Pearl with all the bells and whistles.  It had 200,000 miles on it. It looked like it was just off the show room floor. I drove it for four years and sold it for $1,000 more than I paid for it. Luck and timing. That's what we are looking for in any potential trade of Joe Ryan. 

    2 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

    Came here to say, a few years back Detroit traded Jack Flaherty for a good prospect return AND still made the playoffs. 

    I'm not saying this to say the Twins will make the playoffs. But if they do get a strong return for Ryan, that's not necessarily a bad thing. With how their starting rotation is shaping up, they can trade someone now who can bring a strong return and still be ok. That's especially true if he won't be extended here.

    Plus, is anyone else certain that he can ever have a full and healthy season? I suppose that's the same for every pitcher ever.

    Let's just say they get a good pitching prospect who is either at AA/AAA or already had a cup of coffee, along with a really good hitting prospect. Something stronger than what Duran brought back. Why would that be a bad thing when A) We don't know if there is a 2027 season and B) he probably won't be extended anyway.

    I'm good with it, is basically what I'm saying.

     

    Sounds great. I'm onboard. My only question is that I'm struggling to find players that other teams will trade for Joe Ryan ..... that are not utility types and back end of rotation pitchers or replicas of what is already in the organization. I want players better than Connor Prielipp and Kaelen Culpepper and I really like both of those guys.

    1 hour ago, Parfigliano said:

    What I saw said floor of 171 mil ceiling of 246 mil.

    There are 7 teams with payroll above that 246 in 2026 who like things as they are.  There are 12 teams with payroll below 171 who like things as they are too.  Lot of No votes to be overcome. Because if they liked that range they'd already be in it.

    18 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

    Sounds great. I'm onboard. My only question is that I'm struggling to find players that other teams will trade for Joe Ryan ..... that are not utility types and back end of rotation pitchers or replicas of what is already in the organization. I want players better than Connor Prielipp and Kaelen Culpepper and I really like both of those guys.

    I think a few teams could offer interesting options. The Cubs could start with Matt Shaw as an option right? The Dodgers certainly have tons of options, including young pitching that's not far off. Even Boston could start with a few of their younger guys who aren't FAR away. Texas could also arguably put a decent proposal together. I guess we'll see.

    36 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

    Sounds like a good example .... but I have bought more than a few cars that had high miles. The cars were in great shape and had been taken care of extremely well. For example, I bought a 1991 Audi 200 Quatro, Pearl with all the bells and whistles.  It had 200,000 miles on it. It looked like it was just off the show room floor. I drove it for four years and sold it for $1,000 more than I paid for it. Luck and timing. That's what we are looking for in any potential trade of Joe Ryan. 

    Fair point.  I would guess though, but could be wrong,, that a 1993 with 150k miles would have been more expensive.  Glad it worked out!!!

    It's a real catch 22 for the Twins and TP isn't it? TP says he expects the team to compete. One third of the season gone, the team actually is doing so, despite injuries and warts, due to the nature of the AL this season. TP says the Twins WOULD have spent more $ before the season if he had been in charge earlier. Valdez was the only quality FA still available that could make a difference so they at least gave it a shot with him. TP says adding to the payroll WILL happen when it makes sense. Well, keeping Ryan makes sense in that regard. (Not to mention Jeffers, but I digress.

    THREE options are available. (And I'm avoiding a lost 2027 season because it hasn't happened yet and might not happen. We've BTDT before).

    1] Just give up on the season due to losing Jeffers and losing so much development and potential ML experience this season for Rodriguez, Jenkins, and Roden. Hope the fans understand and don't further scream: "cheap Pohlads" while there is a CHANCE for a winning season/playoff birth to keep the fans engaged. Also, who knows if we actually get to see K-Pepper, Rodriguez, Jenkins, Gonzalez, and Mendez the 2nd half, providing a boost to the team.

    2] Wait and hope for that boost in the 2nd half and hold on to Ryan to front the rotation, keep building the bullpen, and we might have a half way decent season. Especially considering Lopez is back in 2027, and VERY unlikely to be moved. Decide in the offseason to trade Ryan. Might the return be less? Yes, but how much? As I recall, the Brewers still did OK trading...was it Burns?...with only 1 year of control left.

    3] Ride it out. ENJOY having one of the best 1-2 punches in Twins history with Lopez and Ryan, allow a little extra time here in '26 and all of 2027 for the young bats sitting at St Paul, and considering how low the payroll will be in 2027...barring a couple small signings in this case...they can afford to offer Lopez and/or Ryan the QO and hope at least one takes it. Both, MAYBE, could. Regardless, you have them for all of 2027 and then get 1 or 2 extra high draft picks if they move on.

    I know many of you have personal beliefs what they should do. I honestly don't know as I see really sound reasons to move Ryan at the deadline, or wait until the offseason, or ride it out for BOTH Lopez and Ryan. My gut reaction is ONE of them will be extended, probably Lopez due to mitigating factors such as coming off a lost season. Even still, I personally see logic in All THREE scenarios regarding Ryan that make sense.

    @Dmankind of stole my thunder a bit regarding the roster with a great post. I am NOT going to tell you that every prospect is going to turn out, or be a STUD, but let us pause for just a moment to examine what MIGHT be happening over the remainder of 2026 and what MIGHT be projected for 2027.

    It's going to be long, but honest.  I hope you care enough to follow along. I think these are honest thoughts to consider. 

    2027 ROTATION, (as of today, in no particular order):

    Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Bradley, Abel, Matthews, Prielipp, and possibly a return to form for SWR. (Once again, SOMETHING is amiss. This ISN'T the same pitcher we've seen the last couple of years AT ALL). For now, I'm leaving Rojas off the table as I'm still not sure if he's a legitimate rotation option, or on the Santana/Liriano train as bullpen stud who MIGHT move back to the rotation.

    That doesn't include any other prospects developing the rest of 2026, but it's a HELL of a great rotation with OUTSTANDING depth to work with.

    2027 BULLPEN:

    So far so good with Morris being a ROOKIE pressed in to high leverage situations, and showing potential.  So far so good with the 26yo Gomez getting a new start as a RP. Is Rojas a bullpen arm or not? So far he's really helped. HAS Adams turned a corner considering better recent performances? Maybe. Orze has been better than I expected. Can Sands come back and start to throw even close to his 2024 self? The talent is there. No clue if the suddenly improved Banda comes back in 2027. IMO, IF Festa comes back this season, he's a reliever no question. He's got the potential to be one of the best arms there. 

    I still like Klein being let loose. Can Funderburk return to his late season 2025, and early 2026 before he seemed distracted by his time off? I'm betting CJ Culpepper just needs a little time to adjust to the pen before he's ready.

    2027 OF: (injuries slowing prospects is a caveat)

    It's entirely possible that Larnach is gone, despite maybe his best season. His HR are way down, but he's the most complete hitter he's ever been. But he might be gone for obvious reasons. It's a disappointingly possibility that Wallner might also be moved. He doesn't cost much, so there's a solid chance he sticks around as the LF DH, and occasional OF. But MAYBE someone will offer up something decent for him considering his OB and power potential?

    But when FINALLY HEALTHY...can the Twins endure so much baseball gods cruelty...Roden, Rodriguez, and Jenkins still have the 2nd half of this season to "get right" and get ready and make their debut along with Buxton and Martin as a quality and dangerous future OF. And while they are seeing some time at 1B...and should continue to do so...Gonzalez and Mendez are hitting machines that are also about ready to need a spot on the ML roster.

    For believers and non believers, IMO, Outman should be gone tomorrow and replaced with Fedko. IS Fedko a ML ballplayer? I have no idea. And I DON'T want him to come up and sit on the damn bench! You ONLY have 13 position players! Two of them are catchers. There is PLENTY of room to give a shot to a late blooming 26yo who RAKED in 2025, and has continued to RAKE here in 2026. PLEASE don't try to tell me the current roster is so good and so deep that he can't play almost daily. You drafted the kid, you stuck with the kid when he was mediocre, and he's still here as a late development option. He's got power, OB ability, solid speed, and can help at 4 spots. 

    Does it matter if he's not a stud prospect? No. Does it matter if an actual, extended opportunity to PLAY over Outman and THREE utility players...with the 3 top LF hitting AAA OF out due to injury...and he ends up proving he's NOT a ML player hurt anything? Absolutely not. But he DESERVES a CHANCE to show what he can do. A SMART FO would just accept the offense needs some help, and here is a kid we drafted, stuck with, and he's been COOKING for 2yrs.  Let's give him a REAL SHOT to see if we've got AT LEAST, another quality 4th OF.

    What in the hell do the Twins have to lose at this point? They've been playing 12 and 1/2 men for 2 seasons now. That's RIDICULOUS! Rwmove Outman, promote Fedko, give him an HONEST chance to play and see if you've got something!

    It SUCKS that Roden, Rodriguez, and Jenkins are all out. They are losing development time and potential ML time. All the more reason to promote Fedko over Outman, and STOP playing a 12 and a 1/2 player roster. 

    But we can't deny 2/3 of the season where we might see out best OF prospects healthy and ready to go the 2nd half of the season.

    INF:

    The move of Lee to 3B is the correct one. I think he can thrive there. I understand Keaschall is struggling at 2B, but Ive also seen some good plays. I love the fact that they believe in him and are sticking with him. A year from now, I expect him to be a competent 2B. Anything more is TBD. But you just don't give up on a young player with that much athletic ability too soon. By mid June, July 1st at latest, K-Pepper is going to be up. He just needed some time to cook. His bat is almost ready, and his defense is solid, if not spectacular. 

    Houston might be ready 2028 and move K-Pepper to another spot. And as mentioned previously, the Twins have a handful of OK utility players in Kreidler, Gray, and Arcia on hand. But MAYBE Ross is a better utility option than all of them. The kid is almost 26yo, but we're looking at his ability to be a really good utility player, not a stud prospect.

    With ALL of this AAA collection of talent...the injuries not withstanding...HONESTLY,  what does trading Ryan this deadline provide? And I'm honestly asking. 

    I've rambled for a reason. Our beloved Twins have been scrappy as hell and have debuted, or improved, on the rotation, and even the bullpen. The pen is still a work in progress, but it's still been way better than it was in April. Hopefully, more options are forthcoming over the next month or so.

    Losing Jeffers is a MAJOR BLOW. And I'm just not sure we can overcome his loss.

    And so I've rambled even more than I like to state what I think is OBVIOUS.  The Twins are a team in FLUX. I've stated that before the season even began. The SECOND HALF team was not going to be the same team as the first half. The bullpen would get better with some young arms. Kinda sorta has happened so far, but injuries have affected what I saw. The offense would be better the 2nd half with Roden, Rodriguez, Jenkins, Gonzalez, K-Pepper, and Medez ALL knocking on the door. They are kinda doing so with Roden, Rodriguez, and Jenkins sitting outside currently. 

    So what do YOU want? You want to trade Ryan for what? Considering the young talent sitting at St Paul right now just waiting to be healthy again, or waiting for the next promotion, who's a better option? Someone you trade Ryan for?

    I never expect prospects to reach their ceiling. But the Twins are in a special place right now with a COLLECTION of AAA players the look legitimate! So you want to trade Ryan for more young talent that might or not make it? 

    I can see the argument for trading Ryan. . But I really, really like the potential of the lineup going forward. And I like the potential of the pen as is, with a couple converts. Some of wich are TBD.

    And personally, I'd RUN with Lee, Keaschall,  K-Pepper,  Rodriguez, Jenkins, Gonzalez, and Mendez and KEEP Ryan and Lopez...re-sign ONE of them if possible. But I would have also re-signed Jeffers a year ago. 

    So if you pause for a moment, and step back for a LONG look, and take in consideration of the talented aems who have debuted, and the OF and INF options that HAVEN'T debuted yet, mostly due to injury in many cases, do you REALLY want to trade Ryan NOW? 

    What prospects does he bring back that are better than our own? An honest question on my part.

    IMO, the biggest bummer for the current season as we haven't had the opportunity to rebuild the player roster yet. 

    Personally, I'd keep Ryan for the rest of this season and see how the second half plays out. Again, personally, I want to see K-Pepper, Rodriguez, Jenkins, Gonzalez, and Mendez, and maybe Fedko, and keep running with the young arms, waiting for a few  still coming back, and see what this Twins team might do the rest of the season. 

    I'm in the camp of not trading Ryan as I just don't know that he brings back anything better than what's on hand right now. 

     

     

     

    2 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

    I think a few teams could offer interesting options. The Cubs could start with Matt Shaw as an option right? The Dodgers certainly have tons of options, including young pitching that's not far off. Even Boston could start with a few of their younger guys who aren't FAR away. Texas could also arguably put a decent proposal together. I guess we'll see.

    You are correct in saying we shall see.

    Shaw isn't as good as Brooks Lee (imo), so he doesn't work. Most of the Cub prospects are lower down the spectrum. I like Pedro Ramirez the best of the lot.

    The Dodgers have a ton of outfielders and mid to back of the rotation starters. None of their guys are that interesting. The highest rated bat is a DH.

    Boston likely doesn't trade for Joe Ryan. I would love Franklin Arias and Anthony Eyanson.

    Texas has Sebastian Walcott and he is going to be a RF, where we expect Walker Jenkins to play.

    It is going to be quite difficult to find a solid trade for Ryan. I wonder if there is any way to convince Sacramento that their team would be better with a package of guys for Leo De Vries. Ryan, Prielipp or Hill, Lewis, and Roden. It would be a gamble for both sides. I guess we shall just wait and see.

    The only question that is really relevant is this (which assumes Joe Ryan remains at this level for 2026 and 2027):

    In the 2028 offseason are the Twins willing to sign Joe Ryan to a long term market value free agent contract?

    I would estimate that a model Joe Ryan market contract would be at least 5 years, $200 million.

    If the answer is "No, we will not sign him to that level of a contract" then the time to trade him is at or before the trade deadline.   While we still have two seasons of team control, those control years are very valuable and will maximize his trade value.  Each year we hold onto him pretending to compete means his trade value declines while at the same time we absorb the risk of injury degrading that trade value.

    Frankly, I think even if the Pohlads decide to sign Ryan to an extension in 2028, it will just be a token and they will not make similar moves to upgrade the roster. 

     

    9 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

    You are correct in saying we shall see.

    Shaw isn't as good as Brooks Lee (imo), so he doesn't work. Most of the Cub prospects are lower down the spectrum. I like Pedro Ramirez the best of the lot.

    The Dodgers have a ton of outfielders and mid to back of the rotation starters. None of their guys are that interesting. The highest rated bat is a DH.

    Boston likely doesn't trade for Joe Ryan. I would love Franklin Arias and Anthony Eyanson.

    Texas has Sebastian Walcott and he is going to be a RF, where we expect Walker Jenkins to play.

    It is going to be quite difficult to find a solid trade for Ryan. I wonder if there is any way to convince Sacramento that their team would be better with a package of guys for Leo De Vries. Ryan, Prielipp or Hill, Lewis, and Roden. It would be a gamble for both sides. I guess we shall just wait and see.

    I agree with your analysis there.  How about the Yankee's system?  Maybe Dax Kilby and Lagrange who could be a Duran type closer if he can't make it as a starter or if you like Rodriguez better then take him.  All three are lower end top 100 prospects so 2 of those and fill in with some FCL arms or who ever the Twins like further down the list? That might be a bit light but maybe workable.  Unless of course the Yankees are in the bidding for Skubal. Then it probably falls apart.

    10 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

    You are correct in saying we shall see.

    Shaw isn't as good as Brooks Lee (imo), so he doesn't work. Most of the Cub prospects are lower down the spectrum. I like Pedro Ramirez the best of the lot.

    The Dodgers have a ton of outfielders and mid to back of the rotation starters. None of their guys are that interesting. The highest rated bat is a DH.

    Boston likely doesn't trade for Joe Ryan. I would love Franklin Arias and Anthony Eyanson.

    Texas has Sebastian Walcott and he is going to be a RF, where we expect Walker Jenkins to play.

    It is going to be quite difficult to find a solid trade for Ryan. I wonder if there is any way to convince Sacramento that their team would be better with a package of guys for Leo De Vries. Ryan, Prielipp or Hill, Lewis, and Roden. It would be a gamble for both sides. I guess we shall just wait and see.

    See, I'm not certain that Lee is a full time starter at one set position.. He very well could be a utility guy. And if the Twins do like Ramirez more than they like Shaw, maybe that's the path then. 

    I do think the Dodgers, and probably most teams, view pitching differently than we on this board do. Heck, when the Twins traded Nelson Cruz, did anyone actually think that Joe Ryan would become what he did? I certainly didn't.

    If they do make a trade with Boston, I'd also love Kyson Witherspoon. He's had a rough year numbers wise but I loved him at Oklahoma last year.

    And if you can get a player like Walcott, maybe you just make it work and figure out details later.

    We haven't touched on 1B or C though as options, let alone sure-fire SS's. A true SS that puts Culpepper at 2B or 3B would be nice. And a true 1B who can be a middle of the order bat (if there is one out there) would also pique my interest.

    But yeah, you can never have too much pitching.

    I'd be very happy if the Twins stopped being bottom feeders and paid their stars what they are worth.

    Wasn''t that the promise made when we paid for Target Field?

    Extend him a juicy 3 year 30 million deal. He can have his cake and eat it too, cashing in at 32.

    Attendance at Target Field isn't going to get better if Pohlads don't give fans a reason to go.

    Joe Ryan is a reason.

    Hell, if you can't keep your best players, why bother?

    I would hope no one who saw the Twins just get beat up by the lowly Whiteys would think there is any reason to keep Ryan instead of getting real value for him.  Do I trust the Twins to get real value for him?  No, not really, but they lose him in the end anyway.

    12 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

    What I saw said floor of 171 mil ceiling of 246 mil.

    I ran this scenario through A/I and the floor of $171 and a cap of $246M makes sense.  It's pretty close to a wash in terms of total payroll spend.  

    The top revenue teams would need to provide a substantial subsidy to the low revenue teams.  The bottom teams would be losing money for certain with the present revenue sharing model.  The valuation for those teams would literally go to zero unless the rest of the league forces the top 7 teams to give the bottom 7 teams would have to cover a $500M subsidy over the current sharing model.  I think it would be good for the game but I suspect there are legal obstacles to taking revenue from these teams.

    6 hours ago, twinstalker said:

    I would hope no one who saw the Twins just get beat up by the lowly Whiteys would think there is any reason to keep Ryan instead of getting real value for him.  Do I trust the Twins to get real value for him?  No, not really, but they lose him in the end anyway.

    A solid point made but arrived at erroneously. The White Sox have talent, there is no doubt of that. Experience is the weakness for CWS now. You are correct - Ryan should be traded for "real value" if the Twins are not going to sign him. If all the Twins can get in return is a pile of players that do not project to be as good as what is already in the cupboard, then the only option is to keep him. The Twins are loaded with Tristan Gray, Aaron Sabato, and those types of players, all of whom can play a role as utility guys. Go big or no deal.

    My view is the first option should be to trade Ryan at the deadline. And I’m not saying this based on money - I’m saying this because the Twins need a talent injection and trading Ryan is the most powerful way to do it. Here is a list of positions where the Twins don’t need an upgrade: CF. We have some promising prospects but not all are going to make it meaning we will still be short of the talent level required to be a top team. 
    I referenced this as the first option because we have a choice. If we don’t get close to mlb talent of high ceiling in return then we simply don’t do it. We wait until the off season or next deadline or enjoy his pitching and give him the qualifying offer (if there is such a thing going forward). Bottom line is the right move could be trading Joe or hanging on to Joe depending on the return. 




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