Despite Carlos Santana's Great Showing, Fielding Bible Awards Show Twins' Weakness

Byron Buxton played 89 games in CF, good for 22 most in baseball. I guess to the voters actually being on the field matters.  

It is amazing how often you show your dislike for Santana. 🤬

At the end of the year I felt that going into the offseason the Twins needed to improve their defense as the #1 goal. Because of the sluggishness of the roster overall, it also seems like trades will be the best manner to accomplish the goal. It is time for Falvey to wake up.

4 hours ago, bean5302 said:

The Twins' defense is a weakness from the eye test and the metric I trust the most. Comparing OAA to DRS and UZR, Minnesota's fielders added anywhere from about 0.00 to 0.20 to the runs allowed of their pitchers. It might not sound like much at first, but it means the Twins' defense allowed their opponents to score 1 extra run every 5th game by UZR. It's a big deal as a single run scored has a massive impact on the likely outcome of the average game.
OAA thinks Minnesota's defense was league average ranked #17 at 0 runs saved or lost.
DRS has it ranked 25th with -20 runs and
UZR has the Twins dead last in all of MLB at -30.5 runs.

Carlos Santana gets the accolades as a defensive savant this past season, especially around these parts, since it's a positive for a Twins site. You can see how wild the DRS/OAA metrics are compared to UZR/150, and the trends. In general, I think Santana is an average-ish 1B. Losing him isn't a big deal defensively. The bigger issue is the error rates for the infielders and the lack of athleticism at 2B. Center field defense is the biggest problem in the outfield as the Twins haven't got anything for the 80-100 games Buxton will not play.

What he said. 

17 hours ago, bean5302 said:

The Twins' defense is a weakness from the eye test and the metric I trust the most. Comparing OAA to DRS and UZR, Minnesota's fielders added anywhere from about 0.00 to 0.20 to the runs allowed of their pitchers. It might not sound like much at first, but it means the Twins' defense allowed their opponents to score 1 extra run every 5th game by UZR. It's a big deal as a single run scored has a massive impact on the likely outcome of the average game.
OAA thinks Minnesota's defense was league average ranked #17 at 0 runs saved or lost.
DRS has it ranked 25th with -20 runs and
UZR has the Twins dead last in all of MLB at -30.5 runs.

Carlos Santana gets the accolades as a defensive savant this past season, especially around these parts, since it's a positive for a Twins site. You can see how wild the DRS/OAA metrics are compared to UZR/150, and the trends. In general, I think Santana is an average-ish 1B. Losing him isn't a big deal defensively. The bigger issue is the error rates for the infielders and the lack of athleticism at 2B. Center field defense is the biggest problem in the outfield as the Twins haven't got anything for the 80-100 games Buxton will not play.

If you are point to his career as a whole at first then yeah he appears to fall into average, however, if you look at last year, which is what the article is about, he was clearly above average by every measure you put on your graph.  His UZR/150 was over 2, league average was like 1.  His DRS 8, league average just above 6. His OAA was around 13, league was just above 4.  Now that last one is an odd stat by name when the name is Outs Above Average, but either way he was well above the league average. 

So by all accounts, last year he was well above average defender.  Historically, no he has graded out as pretty average, however, this was about just last year.

15 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

At the end of the year I felt that going into the offseason the Twins needed to improve their defense as the #1 goal. Because of the sluggishness of the roster overall, it also seems like trades will be the best manner to accomplish the goal. It is time for Falvey to wake up.

You need to balance defense and offense.  Very few guys are elite at both.  Buck at times had been, but now his defense has dropped and his offense has as well.  CC has shown in the past both, but injuries and age like Buck has dragged that down.  Last year we accepted less defense for guys like Julien, and Lewis because their offense was so elite.  This year, they were not elite on offense, Julien was well below average.  

You can go out and get elite defenders, but if they cannot hit at all, then what is the point?  You can get the 8 best defenders in the league, but if they all hit well below average it will not work out well.  If you have amazing hitters that are around average or just below average you will normally take that.  Problem is, our offense did not make up for the poor defense last year. 

I agree that improved up the middle defense will help with run prevention. 2B needs to improve and more Willi Castro might be part of the solution. CF should have Emmanuel Rodriguez and Keirsey backing up Buxton instead of Margot, Castro and Martin. A full, healthy season for Correa and Lewis would help.

27 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I agree that improved up the middle defense will help with run prevention. 2B needs to improve and more Willi Castro might be part of the solution. CF should have Emmanuel Rodriguez and Keirsey backing up Buxton instead of Margot, Castro and Martin. A full, healthy season for Correa and Lewis would help.

Rodriguez has not shown even average skill at Center Field.

Hopefully Kiersey will shine in Spring Training.

3 minutes ago, RpR said:

Rodriguez has not shown even average skill at Center Field.

 

Have you seen Emmanuel play? Once?

Veterans often have a jump on younger players because of experience and thus one gets a player  like Carlos Santana and his fine defense at the age of 38. However, a young player can also play defense, witness Andruw Jones when he came on the scene for Atlanta.

Emmanuel Rodriguez is a very good defensive centerfielder (not as good as Jones). He gets great jumps, has good speed, and has a strong accurate throwing arm. All of these I can say I have seen while watching him play the last two years. Scouts and writers who travel around watching minor league players for a living have nothing but extreme positive platitudes for Emmanuel as a defensive player. Your comment cannot be supported by a single scout, writer, or objective viewer.

One can criticize the strikeouts and too patient approach EmRod displays as a hitter and be worried about the array of injuries, but there has yet to be a reason to suspect the glove.

I think one of the teams priorities needs to be getting faster and more athletic, and improving our terrible defense. We have so many so called "bat first" guys who are slow, have little range and no TRUE defensive home, since Rocco wants everyone to be a super utility player now. Losing Farmer and especially Margot will help, but we'll be taking a huge defensive hit at first base in losing Santana and probably replacing him with Miranda, Severino or Keaschal. It'd be great to sign Christian Walker or even Goldschmidt to something like a two year deal, but we all know ownership is not adding to our roster this year.

12 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Have you seen Emmanuel play? Once?

Veterans often have a jump on younger players because of experience and thus one gets a player  like Carlos Santana and his fine defense at the age of 38. However, a young player can also play defense, witness Andruw Jones when he came on the scene for Atlanta.

Emmanuel Rodriguez is a very good defensive centerfielder (not as good as Jones). He gets great jumps, has good speed, and has a strong accurate throwing arm. All of these I can say I have seen while watching him play the last two years. Scouts and writers who travel around watching minor league players for a living have nothing but extreme positive platitudes for Emmanuel as a defensive player. Your comment cannot be supported by a single scout, writer, or objective viewer.

One can criticize the strikeouts and too patient approach EmRod displays as a hitter and be worried about the array of injuries, but there has yet to be a reason to suspect the glove.

Kiersey Jr.

His fielding is not getting better and this is minor league.

15 minutes ago, LambchoP said:

 

Posted 4 minutes ago

I think one of the teams priorities needs to be getting faster and more athletic, and improving our terrible defense....Losing Farmer and especially Margot will help,

Losing Farmer will help with defense?

Keeping Julien and Lee far, far away from the infield will help.

Farmer was not as good at 2nd as his usual last year, but between Lee, Julien and him, he was easily far better than they.

Time and time again, in tight situations, it is defense that bites you. The Yankees learned it in one inning....

5 minutes ago, RpR said:

Losing Farmer will help with defense?

Keeping Julien and Lee far, far away from the infield will help.

Farmer was not as good at 2nd as his usual last year, but between Lee, Julien and him, he was easily far better than they.

I think Julien needs to stay in the minors, maybe back to single A to re-work his swing. Needs to learn a position and learn it right before he should ever be in the majors again. I think a healthy Lee will be fine. He looked great at 3rd and decent at 2nd. It does worry me that he's so slow, but you could say that about most of our team.

53 minutes ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

minor league SS Gold Glove winner, Noah Miller.

They don't need to roster a player who hits worse than Christian Vazquez.

32 minutes ago, RpR said:

His fielding is not getting better and this is minor league.

Since your data has no labels it's impossible to determine what you think you're showing. You did answer the question of whether you have ever seen Rodriguez play defense with a definite NO.

13 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Santana's fine. A solid 2 WAR player last year if you throw out the unstable SSS defensive metrics.

That you throw out there when it's touting one of YOUR boys and how great they are

Perhaps a manager and coaching staff that preach and teach defensive fundamentals would help. 

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

Since your data has no labels it's impossible to determine what you think you're showing. You did answer the question of whether you have ever seen Rodriguez play defense with a definite NO.

The fielding percentage at the end of the stats, is all that matters there.

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

While I suspect the metrics don't exist for your assertion, it's fair to point out Fangraphs has Emma as 40 grade speed, and even MLB.com has him as 55 grade. Neither are acceptable to play CF at an adequate level. Rodriguez had so little last year so the metrics available on him are very small sample size at 275 innings so they're not all that reliable, but let's compare him to his peers with the most innings at CF by team.

Quote

Rodriguez will stay in center field for now, but as an average runner who will likely continue to get bigger, he projects as an above-average defender in a corner outfield spot. - Baseball America

Quote

Rodriguez will play all of the 2024 season at age 21 and he’s still an above-average runner who can steal a base. He’s continued to show an ability to stick in center field, but if he slows down a tick, his plus arm will play just fine in right. His power profile would work there as well, with the first order of business being turning in a full, healthy season. - Baseball Savant

Aaron Judge has been playable in CF despite below average foot speed. I'm not going to compare his bat to Judge but his glove might be similar.

Anyone who has not seen a player actually play the game on numerous occasions has almost no credibility to discuss their fielding. Stratomatic is fun as are all types of statistics, but they do not tell you as much as what occurs on the field. 

6 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Anyone who has not seen a player actually play the game on numerous occasions has almost no credibility to discuss their fielding. Stratomatic is fun as are all types of statistics, but they do not tell you as much as what occurs on the field. 

So analytics are bs? 🤣