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    Darvish Down To The Studs


    Ted Schwerzler
    Image courtesy of © Mark J. Rebilas-USA TODAY Sports

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    The Minnesota Twins, and really baseball as a whole, continue to be in a standoff with free agents across the sport. While some players are balking at long-term deals (yes, you Eric Hosmer) or wanting unrealistic sums of money (yes, you J.D. Martinez and Jake Arrieta), the reality is that players still should end up being signed. For the hometown team no unsigned player is more important than Yu Darvish.

    At this point there’s been so much written about the fit between the two sides. Jay Jaffe recently noted that Darvish makes too much sense for Minnesota, and MLB.com’s Richard Justice put the Twins atop the list of teams needing to make a move (with Darvish being the suggestion). If Darvish to the Twins were to fall into the “beating a dead horse” category, we would’ve entered the sick and twisted level of punishment a long time ago.

    So, what’s the hang up?

    On his latest version of The Scoop podcast, Darren Wolfson noted the Twins have made Darvish a formal offer. The belief is that it’s of the four or five year variety, and that they aren’t keen on the idea of going to a sixth year (more on that in a minute). Also, while Chris Gimenez is now trying to recruit Darvish to Chicago, Mike Napoli believes it’s a matter of when (not if) he’ll be with Minnesota. The former Rangers teammate is playing an active role in recruiting the star pitcher to Thad Levine’s new club.

    Now back to that sixth year and Darvish bit. Twins Daily’s Tom Froemming had a couple of noteworthy comments regarding Yu recently on Twitter. First and foremost, if the sixth year is what would get the deal done for the Twins and they decide to forego that opportunity, it would be a huge egg-on-face scenario. Despite lacking the ability to play in the big boy pool a vast majority of the time, Minnesota finds itself with a prime opportunity. Positioning themselves to offer something competitors can/will not in order to get a monumental deal done would like a big whiff.

    Looking at what the market has to offer, Tom delves a bit deeper. A year from now, the free agent pitching crop isn’t going to yield much more than what Minnesota currently has in front of them. While Clayton Kershaw should headline that class, he’s going to be nowhere within the Twins means (especially with Los Angeles and New York attempting to position for a big spend). That leaves a group headlined by Dallas Keuchel, and rounded out by names like Patrick Corbin and Garret Richards.

    Finally and maybe most importantly given the factors at play, Mr. Froemming quips “If the Twins just want to be a cute little small market team that builds from within that's fine. That's actually smart. But then you need to do things like trade away Brian Dozier.” This point makes a bunch of sense as well, and is akin to how the Tampa Bay Rays have operated. In flipping names like David Price, they’ve recouped controllable talent and tried to win outside of free agency. However, the crossroads for the Twins to pick a side is right in front of them.

    As has been dissected plenty this offseason, Minnesota views a perfect storm for Darvish to end up in the Twin Cities. A bad division, prospects graduated to regulars, and a payroll begging to be expanded upon. If the Twins are not ready or able to take the plunge on Darvish at this juncture, there’s probably never going to be a time in which they are willing to make this sort of leap. There are only a few times in an organization's cycle of competitiveness that point directly at a certain line of decision-making. For Minnesota, this is it.

    As I outlined here recently, there’s no denying that clubs are backing away from long-term big-money deals. The reality is that the back end of those deals leaves you significant opportunity to be exposed when a player begins to fall off a cliff. That being said, it also has to be applied on a case-by-case basis. While there are any number of players available in a given offseason, top-of-the-rotation pitchers rarely hit the market surrounded by ideal circumstances.

    Should the Twins land Darvish on a six-year deal, it’s fair to assume that the final (and possibly even the fifth year) would be a wash. That being said, there are more than a few things in their corner here. First and foremost is the commodity that they’re starting with. Darvish is an elite level pitcher now. Assuming he falls off as time goes on, him going from a 3.70 ERA (16/17) to a 4.50 ERA and fifth starter at age 35-36 is hardly a massive failure. By starting with a higher talent level out of the gate, the expectation should be that the bottom wouldn’t drop out as deeply.

    Second, payroll being what it is now, and should continue to be, positions the move well. Although Minnesota hasn’t kept up with inflation for years, they also haven’t been in a scenario in which supplementing the internal roster with outside talent would’ve made much difference. Before the emergence of young and controllable talent hit the big leagues, spending would’ve been at a time to do little more than tread water. Now with the roster where it is, 2018 should represent an organizational record in payroll, and that should continue to hold strong for the next several years.

    Finally, Minnesota has been waiting for this opportunity for years. No, not the opportunity to sign Darvish, but instead the ability to “go for it,” with names like Buxton and Sano already in place. After having a top farm system for a number of years, those prospects have graduated. If by the time Yu Darvish is 36 or 37, the Twins have yet to accomplish anything, they’ll also be watching both Sano and Buxton stare 30 in the face. At that point, they’ll be established veterans on a roster waiting on the emergence of players headlined by Royce Lewis. This current core of graduated prospects was what the Twins needed to supplement, and the time to do so is now.

    At the end of the day, Yu Darvish gives the Twins an opportunity to play in a space they so rarely have been able to. They can bring in an elite and necessary talent, while pushing them forward from a year in which they showed emergence. Seeing future salary relief in 2019 and beyond, Falvey and Levine should be able to continue to pump external talent into their established squad, and it could result in the best opportunity for a World Series run in years. It’s hard to suggest that any one offseason is defined solely on the shoulders of a singular player, but it’s equally hard to understate just how valuable the addition of the former Rangers ace would be.

    Four years, five years, or six years, find the competitive advantage necessary to get a "Yes" and take the plunge.


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    There is an old Cajun tale about a coon hunter stuck in a tree at night with a bobcat. He yells at his partner "Shoot shoot!" The partner is afraid he will hit the guy by mistake. The treed hunter says "just shoot, I don't care which one of us you hit!" And that's the Twins, just do something. That said, I can see going for a Darvish in this time frame. But don't get fooled into thinking they are going to play with the Big Boys. That's a fools errand. IF the new FO is flexible and imaginative they can compete with regularity by moving assets around. Something the old FO did not. They got hung up on sacred cows and waddled in limbo for years.

     

    "Jon Heyman in MLB trade rumors has stated that there’s “reason to believe” that neither the Brewers or the Twins are a top choice for Darvish, though, so either team could perhaps need to be more aggressive in order to land him."

    I view this type of info as posturing and leveraging.

    I have no idea what Darvish does or does not value in a future team, but it seems like many of the top end free agents are waiting for a bidding war that isn't happening. I absolutely agree with your assumption of posturing. I believe that he's trying to get MIN or MIL to compete with each other or with a team that isn't really in it to drive the price up.  

     

    I gotta think Money and World Series Contention are the 1 and 2 criterion and then there's the whole litany of other stuff like fit, culture, community that we can't really put a metric to.

     

    I'm not sure why he'd live in MN in the off season......an MLB player is only in town for 3-4 months, max. There really is no reason to live there, if you don't want to.

     

    I don't think we know what he wants, but if I had to guess, MN and Mil are not the top of the list.

    Mauer lives in FL most of the year, why wouldn't the whole team?

     

    Mauer lives in FL most of the year, why wouldn't the whole team?

     

    I'm not sure what the point is of this post is....my point about Darvish, who is not from MN and probably wants to live where there are more Japanese (though we don't know that) and/or more diversity than you can find in MN.....is that MLB players don't actually spend that much time in their home cities. And, almost all the school year is not the MLB season. 

     

    Darvish throws 6 different pitches. As long as he is not injured he will be atleast a serviceable pitcher the 5th and 6th year of his contract. Just add the 6th year and get insurance on the contract...

    Insurance on player contracts is getting rarer, is extremely costly (especially for pitchers), and almost never runs longer than 3 yrs at a time.

     

    Here's one article on contract insurance, you can find more easily: 

     

     https://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/02/understanding-the-business-of-baseball-insurance-on-player-contracts.html/

    My prediction - when pitchers and catchers report on Tuesday, Pineda is moved to the 60-day DL.  Twins will use the 40-man roster spot for Napoli.  Unfortunately, they cannot do the same for Santana, because they would lose him through May (60 days from start of regular season).  Signing Darvish likely means Kinley is offered back to Miami.

     

    My prediction - when pitchers and catchers report on Tuesday, Pineda is moved to the 60-day DL.  Twins will use the 40-man roster spot for Napoli.  Unfortunately, they cannot do the same for Santana, because they would lose him through May (60 days from start of regular season).  Signing Darvish likely means Kinley is offered back to Miami.

     

    Do the 60 days not start counting down until after opening day?

    Someone needs to take Yu ice fishing. Maybe he will catch a walleye.

     

    Then he would realize that  Minnesota has way more to offer than LA, which has a boring 70 degree climate in winter, Disneyland, Universal Studios, Magic Mountain, Hollywood, Laguna, Malibu, Knotts Berry Farm and all those boring warm weather golf courses. 

     

    Someone needs to take Yu ice fishing. Maybe he will catch a walleye.

     

    Then he would realize that  Minnesota has way more to offer than LA, which has a boring 70 degree climate in winter, Disneyland, Universal Studios, Magic Mountain, Hollywood, Laguna, Malibu, Knotts Berry Farm and all those boring warm weather golf courses. 

     

    Yeah

     

    The Snowmobiling sucks in Southern California!!!

     

    He and others have been saying that throughout the offseason, and have done so not just about Darvish, but FA's willingness to come to Minnesota in general, due to the weather, the market, and other negative platitudes. It sounds like speculation, rather than source-work (i.e. "reason to believe" rather than "insider/person-familiar suggests").

    I'm with you, those characterizations get old. I always find it funny that weather seems to be such an impediment to the Twins drawing interest but the Tigers and Cubs have had no problem luring top players recently. It's almost as if players will go wherever the $$ is. Crazy right?

    I’m not sure I agree with the almost presumed assesment that “this is the time”. Still an awful lot of uncertainty on the roster IMO. Which Byron Buxton will show up this year? Will Kepler hit LHP? Is Rosario really what he was last year? Will Sano stay healthy? Will he be suspended for a large chunk of time? Will Berrios remain consistent? What about after him? Not much there, even with a Darvish. A two man rotation might get it done in the playoffs, but you have to get there first. Even with Darvish, the opening day # 3 had a 5 plus ERA the last two years. Still bullpen questions. Plenty of new faces. How will it all shake out? Awful lot of pressure on Hildenberger and Rogers, two still extremely green relievers.

     

    Say the Twins get Darvish but it turns out Sano is on the DL more than he plays the next 5 years, Kepler never hits LHP, Rosario and Buxton slide back. Now you have a great ace on an otherwise lousy team. Still a lot of unknowns I think to say “this year is our shot”.

     

    I'm not sure why he'd live in MN in the off season......an MLB player is only in town for 3-4 months, max. There really is no reason to live there, if you don't want to.

     

    I don't think we know what he wants, but if I had to guess, MN and Mil are not the top of the list.

    Opening day is March 29.  3-4 months would mean their season was over in June or July, not October.

    Someone needs to take Yu ice fishing. Maybe he will catch a walleye.

     

    Then he would realize that  Minnesota has way more to offer than LA, which has a boring 70 degree climate in winter, Disneyland, Universal Studios, Magic Mountain, Hollywood, Laguna, Malibu, Knotts Berry Farm and all those boring warm weather golf courses.

     

    All that, and in MN he could zip line across the Mississipi! Let's see him try that in LA across the Pacific!

     

    I’m not sure I agree with the almost presumed assesment that “this is the time”. Still an awful lot of uncertainty on the roster IMO. Which Byron Buxton will show up this year? Will Kepler hit LHP? Is Rosario really what he was last year? Will Sano stay healthy? Will he be suspended for a large chunk of time? Will Berrios remain consistent? What about after him? Not much there, even with a Darvish. A two man rotation might get it done in the playoffs, but you have to get there first. Even with Darvish, the opening day # 3 had a 5 plus ERA the last two years. Still bullpen questions. Plenty of new faces. How will it all shake out? Awful lot of pressure on Hildenberger and Rogers, two still extremely green relievers.

    Say the Twins get Darvish but it turns out Sano is on the DL more than he plays the next 5 years, Kepler never hits LHP, Rosario and Buxton slide back. Now you have a great ace on an otherwise lousy team. Still a lot of unknowns I think to say “this year is our shot”.

    If not now, then when?  If everything shakes out poorly, the alternative is what, another full rebuild? Wait for Royce Lewis and others to get ready and then make FA moves?  There's risk inherent no matter when the Twins decide to go for it.

     

    All that, and in MN he could zip line across the Mississipi! Let's see him try that in LA across the Pacific!

    Really? There's a zip line across the Mississippi? Seems foolish for something you can just walk across in about 10 steps knee-deep.

     

    http://www.lakesnwoods.com/images/LakeIt78.jpg

     

    I’m not sure I agree with the almost presumed assesment that “this is the time”. Still an awful lot of uncertainty on the roster IMO. Which Byron Buxton will show up this year? Will Kepler hit LHP? Is Rosario really what he was last year? Will Sano stay healthy? Will he be suspended for a large chunk of time? Will Berrios remain consistent? What about after him? Not much there, even with a Darvish. A two man rotation might get it done in the playoffs, but you have to get there first. Even with Darvish, the opening day # 3 had a 5 plus ERA the last two years. Still bullpen questions. Plenty of new faces. How will it all shake out? Awful lot of pressure on Hildenberger and Rogers, two still extremely green relievers.

    Say the Twins get Darvish but it turns out Sano is on the DL more than he plays the next 5 years, Kepler never hits LHP, Rosario and Buxton slide back. Now you have a great ace on an otherwise lousy team. Still a lot of unknowns I think to say “this year is our shot”.

     

    Then we are better equipped to handle those failures because we have a legitimate ace.

     

    If they all sucks, we'll have to start the rebuild again anyway (which will take a minimum of two years to decide) and the sixth year won't make a bit of difference during the rebuild.

    I would tend to venture that Darvish's 6th year could not be as bad as Hughes' third, fourth, fifth, or sixth (2016,17,18,19.)

     

    They can drop down the AAV by 10% and add that 6th year.   That would add a total of 50% of the original AAV to the total contract, so it would be like paying for 8% more than the original offer

    Edited by Thrylos

     

    I would tend to venture that Darvish's 6th year could not be as bad as Hughes' third, fourth, fifth, or sixth (2016,17,18,19.)

     

    They can drop down the AAV by 10% and add that 6th year.   That would add a total of 50% of the original AAV to the total contract, so it would be like paying for 8% more than the original offer

    No kidding. 

    The Twins hand out extra years to #4/#5 type pitchers like candy seemingly, yet when it comes to an ace they get stingy?

    Also with a 6th year you can pay him 'less' IMO those first 5 years as well.

    Let's say YU is looking for $25 mil a year for 5 years, but would settle for $22 mil a year for 6 years.

    6/132 seems like a fair deal for all sides.


     

     

    I’m not sure I agree with the almost presumed assesment that “this is the time”. Still an awful lot of uncertainty on the roster IMO. Which Byron Buxton will show up this year? Will Kepler hit LHP? Is Rosario really what he was last year? Will Sano stay healthy? Will he be suspended for a large chunk of time? Will Berrios remain consistent? What about after him? Not much there, even with a Darvish. A two man rotation might get it done in the playoffs, but you have to get there first. Even with Darvish, the opening day # 3 had a 5 plus ERA the last two years. Still bullpen questions. Plenty of new faces. How will it all shake out? Awful lot of pressure on Hildenberger and Rogers, two still extremely green relievers.

    Say the Twins get Darvish but it turns out Sano is on the DL more than he plays the next 5 years, Kepler never hits LHP, Rosario and Buxton slide back. Now you have a great ace on an otherwise lousy team. Still a lot of unknowns I think to say “this year is our shot”.

    I get all of those arguments and I was on this side until the past couple of weeks.

    The Twins just simply don't get a lot of good opportunities to get this type of a pitcher. I'd rather see them get him in a year where they are still developing than wait a year or two when the market is flooded with more teams competing for this type of a pitcher. Next year and after, the big spenders will be back and instead of getting a good pitcher at fair value they'd have to outbid maybe the Dodgers, the Yankees, the Cubs, the Red Sox, etc. and other mystery teams (Braves, Padres, etc.) that are starting to take off with cheap players and willing to spend.




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