Willingham on waivers

[drjim]

We disagree on this probably.....but I don't care if they lose 90 or 85, if they have zero chance of being good. I don't want to watch old guys that are bad, when I could be watching young guys that are bad, but might be good.

 

And, I'd dump him to USE THE MONEY on someone younger and possibly better.....like a SP or Ellsbury....not dump him to keep the money for the owners and their bonuses in the FO.

 

So you want to unload older players and respond by going $100 mil+ to lock up an OF in his decline years?

[big dog]

I don't get this, but I'm hearing it from multiple people, so I'm open to hearing the reasoning.

 

The Twins WANT Willingham to get through waivers. It increases their negotiating power if he does. So why not put him through waivers either:

1) when he's hurt or

2) the first day he's "healthy"?

 

At that point, teams are far less likely to claim him. Which, again, is what the Twins want in this situation. Am I missing something?

 

A player on the DL cannot be placed on assignment waivers until he is off the DL and healthy enough to play.

[pierre75275]

I wonder if Baltimore and the Twins are trying to work out a deal that would send both Justin and Josh to Baltimore. I wonder who we could get back if we picked up a majority of both their remaining salaries

[nicksaviking]

I don't get this, but I'm hearing it from multiple people, so I'm open to hearing the reasoning.

 

The Twins WANT Willingham to get through waivers. It increases their negotiating power if he does. So why not put him through waivers either:

1) when he's hurt or

2) the first day he's "healthy"?

 

At that point, teams are far less likely to claim him. Which, again, is what the Twins want in this situation. Am I missing something?

 

I agree, put these guys on waivers when they are least likely to be claimed, it's the logical thing to do.

 

I assume the people who said not to waive him August 1, are saying so because he was injured. The commisioner's office needs to approve any trades of injured players. I'm not sure about the rules regarding waivers, but are we sure you can even waive an injured player? I'm not sure you can, as the players union likely would object seeing as you could screw with a guy's service time if he clears and is placed in the minors.

[diehardtwinsfan]

These are the dudes I wrote about a few months ago (stats NOT updated)

 

Tim Berry, LHP, starter, 22 (A+)

2013 A+: 4.54, 69.1, 66/17

 

Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers

 

 

Zach Davies, RHP, starter, 20 (A+)

2013 A+: 3.63, 74.1, 58/19

 

Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers.

 

 

Devin Jones, RHP, starter, 22 (AA)

2013 AA: 4.84, 67.0, 58/20

 

Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers

 

 

Josh Hader, LHP, starter, 19 (A)

2013 A: 1.94, 60.1, 56/30

 

Twins system: likely head to Cedar Rapids.

 

 

Torsten Boss, LH, 3B, 22 (A)

2013 A: 221, .251/.333/.405 (.738), 11/2/5, 23/49, 2-3

 

Twins system: likely headed to Cedar Rapids.

 

You mean you don't think Dylan Bundy is on the table?

[nicksaviking]

A player on the DL cannot be placed on assignment waivers until he is off the DL and healthy enough to play.

 

 

I guess a page four generated while I had my window open for a half hour. You got me.

[nicksaviking]

You mean you don't think Dylan Bundy is on the table?

 

Yeah, ready to jump with a noose around his neck when he heard he might be moved from the contending Orioles to the bottom feeder Twins.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Couple of thoughts.

 

1) Don't trade for the sake of trading. I do think he would be incredibly valuable next year in a bounce back year, and I doubt his value is any less next year at this time should the same thing happen as this year.

 

2) Don't trade to dump salary. They don't need to do that. My one caveat here is that if htey are dumping salary to make a run at Tanaka or Abreau, so be it, but make that run and don't come back and say "we got outbid".

 

3) Should get something of value. Yeah, it won't be Bundy, but what I don't know is how well the O's match up with the Twins needs. None of those guys mentioned in the previous lists really excite me much. I would hope they could at least get a guy with a K/9 around 9 in A or A+ ball. There's plenty of risk that far down in the farm that we couldn't get something similar to what we got for Butera.

 

4) Trading Willingham now would let Parmelee play every day for the remainder of the year. Judging by how he's doing in AAA right now, I'm guessing that there's something he's working on (and not well) given how well he produced there last year. I'm not convinced he's an answer, but I do think that this kid needs to play every day... and at this point, his season has been wasted. Even if he comes back and hits, people will say something about it being in September. The Twins really screwed the pooch on this one... or I should say, Gardy screwed up.

[Mike Sixel]

So you want to unload older players and respond by going $100 mil+ to lock up an OF in his decline years?

 

There is no evidence Ellsbury is in decline, and if you want FAs, then ya, you'll be taking a risk on the last year or two of his contract....how's the Hunter decline going? I suppose the alternative is to not sign anyone.....

[Rosterman]

Yes, if the Twins take the money and reinvest it.

 

Yes, if they get some sort of a minor return.

 

Yes, it frees up more time for another player. And a 40-man roster spot.

 

Bless his soul, but Willie's worth to the team is next to nothing. Even if he bounces back next yer, he will be in his walk year.

 

I say unload his salary. Throw Correia out there too after his last great start and let him go.

 

Wish they could get something for Pelfry or Morneau, too, unless they plan to resign both. I would rather see, right now, the Correia and Willingham money spent on resigning Pelfry and Morneau for a season or two. Amd that isn't really a happy thought, either.

[ThePuck]

There is no evidence Ellsbury is in decline, and if you want FAs, then ya, you'll be taking a risk on the last year or two of his contract....how's the Hunter decline going? I suppose the alternative is to not sign anyone.....

 

What's the average age of FAs do you think? 29, 30? It's convenient to talk about how bad it is to sign people in their declining years when most people who reach FA are on the north end of their 27-29 year old prime.

 

I remember laughing hard at the people defending Ryan, and later Smith, for not offering more years to Hunter because he'd be paying for decline years.

[ScottyB]

No Bundy, but Gausman's on the table (I'm sure) - his awful ERA and all.

[Dance with Disco Dan]

It seems that there are very few prospect-for-prospect trades in MLB. I imagine that no one wants to be on the wrong side of an inherently risky deal. But with the Twins sitting as much minor-league talent as anyone, I would like to see them use that depth to leverage Willingham up to a prospect that they really like. Get creative, TR. You have 48 hours to talk about the players in your system that the O's like. Expand that trade if you can get some arms you like.

[ThePuck]

It seems that there are very few prospect-for-prospect trades in MLB. I imagine that no one wants to be on the wrong side of an inherently risky deal. But with the Twins sitting as much minor-league talent as anyone, I would like to see them use that depth to leverage Willingham up to a prospect that they really like. Get creative, TR. You have 48 hours to talk about the players in your system that the O's like. Expand that trade if you can get some arms you like.

 

I honestly can't remember when we traded a decent prospect with no MLB experience for a proven player.

[Dance with Disco Dan]

I honestly can't remember when we traded a decent prospect with no MLB experience for a proven player.

 

I am not even suggesting we ask for a proven player. I am suggesting that, in addition to Willingham, we can add a prospect or two to improve the level of prospect we get back. Obviously, there will be 1000s of possible permutations and 1000s of differing opinions on each one.

 

For example, Mike Wright is listed the No. 6 O's prospect on MLB.com. I know nothing about him except: 1) he posted solid numbers at AA this season; and 2) there is no way the O's send him our way just for Willingham. But, if we add one of our non-elite prospects that the O's like to the pot, maybe they bite. Of course, I have no idea how the Twins value Wright or who the O's think would be an acceptable throw in to make the deal. But with 48 hours to discuss the matter, I hope there are dozens of proposals made trying to get a better prospect than Willingham can bring by himself. Time to start leveraging the system.

 

Maybe they'll even take Levi Michael and we can all stop pretending he doesn't exist.

[nicksaviking]

I want at least two of Willingham, Doumt and/or Morneau de-cluttered from this mess of a roster but I guess I'm not for a salary dump at this time. Losing that salary is far from a promise that Ryan will re-invest it, and seriously, what could he really do with $67 million that he couldn't do with $60 million. Add another Kevin Correia I suppose. Hooray.

 

Anyway, they can always wait unitl the offseason to move him and gamble that he finishes strong and brings back a better return. If they can't move him then, they can dump him and eat the salary.

[drjim]

I honestly can't remember when we traded a decent prospect with no MLB experience for a proven player.

 

Capps for Ramos is close right?

 

Also traded spects for Rauch, Pavano and lh reliever from the Angels (and probably a few others).

[Willihammer]

O's claim Mike Morse

[jay]

I am not even suggesting we ask for a proven player. I am suggesting that, in addition to Willingham, we can add a prospect or two to improve the level of prospect we get back. Obviously, there will be 1000s of possible permutations and 1000s of differing opinions on each one.

 

Adam Walker, right?

 

As you noted earlier, these types of trades just don't really happen unless there's a reason the team wants to move a guy (a la Bauer for Gregorius).

[ThePuck]

Capps for Ramos is close right?

 

Also traded spects for Rauch, Pavano and lh reliever from the Angels (and probably a few others).

 

except for Ramos having MLB expereince, yeah close...and Pavano was traded for a player to be named later. Who was the decent prospect we ended up trading for him?

 

Rauch was claimed off waivers and no prospect was traded.

 

'The Twins originally claimed Rauch on waivers on Aug. 28, sending a player to be named to the Diamondbacks. Officially speaking, that player turned out to be cash considerations—and not a player at all.

 

Then in a corresponding move, the D'backs claimed Mulvey on waivers from the Twins on Sept. 1 and subsequently sent cash considerations to the Twins.' - Baseball America

 

Both of those moves were under Smith.

 

Now, who is the LH reliever from the Angels you are referring to and what decent prospect did we give up?

[Dance with Disco Dan]

Adam Walker, right?

 

As you noted earlier, these types of trades just don't really happen unless there's a reason the team wants to move a guy (a la Bauer for Gregorius).

 

Ha. Our most polarizing prospect. For the entertainment value it would provide this board alone, yes please, Adam Walker.

 

Since I live at the south pole, I would gladly throw him into the Willingham deal in return for a AA starter that the Twins believed was a rotation piece in the future.

[drjim]

except for Ramos having MLB expereince, yeah close...and Pavano was traded for a player to be named later. Who was the decent prospect we ended up trading for him?

 

Rauch was claimed off waivers and no prospect was traded.

 

'The Twins originally claimed Rauch on waivers on Aug. 28, sending a player to be named to the Diamondbacks. Officially speaking, that player turned out to be cash considerations—and not a player at all.

 

Then in a corresponding move, the D'backs claimed Mulvey on waivers from the Twins on Sept. 1 and subsequently sent cash considerations to the Twins.' - Baseball America

 

Both of those moves were under Smith.

 

Now, who is the LH reliever from the Angels you are referring to and what decent prospect did we give up?

 

Yohan Pino for Pavano.

 

Loek Van M for the lh reliever whose name I'm blanking on.

[ThePuck]

Yohan Pino for Pavano.

 

Loek Van M for the lh reliever whose name I'm blanking on.

 

And these are decent prospects? Pino was like the Twins 27th prospect in 2006. Where did he stand in 2009? He doesn't seem to have been ranked high enough in the Twins system to even be mentioned by BA that year.

[ThePuck]

In most cases, any true quality FA will require a multi-year deal worth good money and that contract will take them on the north side of their career, or as they are declining.

 

Might as well say, don't sign any FAs or give any contract to anyone for any decent time once the hit 30...since most FAs are at least 29.

 

So basically, bargain bin shop in FA.

[howieramone1406390264]

My one caveat here is that if htey are dumping salary to make a run at Tanaka or Abreau, so be it, but make that run and don't come back and say "we got outbid".

 

Good post, but there is always a walk away price. I like going after Tanaka with all guns blazing. My guess is 75M for a seat at the table, and 90M -100M to win. Other players are Yankees, Rangers, Red Sox, and Dodgers.

 

IMHO this is where Ryan should take his shot, but there is always a walk away price.

[Steve Lein]

Yohan Pino for Pavano.

 

Loek Van M for the lh reliever whose name I'm blanking on.

 

Brian Fuentes.

[ThePuck]

Brian Fuentes.

 

Van Mil was ranked as the Twins 39th ranked prospect by Gleeman when he was trade for Fuentes...Twins 29th ranked by BA

[robbie111]

If the O's are trying to get both Willingham and Morneau then would Dylan Bundy be on the table? Considering he just had Tommy John surgery, still think he would be worth the risk if offered.

[Rosterman]

Yohan Pino for Pavano.

 

Loek Van M for the lh reliever whose name I'm blanking on.

 

Brian Fuentes was the name you are looking for.....

[claryad]

Here is a link to MLB.com for the top 20 prospects per team.

 

2013 Prospect Watch | MLB.com: News

 

I would be very interested in Mike Wright (sp) Zachary Davies (sp) Adrian Marin (ss) or Michael Ohlman © for Hammer and JM