da BEARS v VIKES 11/16/25

[gunnarthor]

7 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Yikes

Well, he doesn't lack confidence, I suppose. 

[TheLeviathan]

4 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

Can't read the whole article but what I could read was solid. 

At the end of the day, KOC has to develop him. He's a good coach. JJ seems "football" smart and willing to learn. He's only 22. We should know one way or other by the end of the season.

There wasn't much more after that.  What struck me was how much the penalties and confusion are on him.  I assumed it was a combo of things, but Arif made a compelling case that JJ is struggling in the huddle.  A lack of command there definitely worries me.  

Like I said, I'm all in on this process and I'll stand by it being the right path no matter the outcome.  But there is a LOT of work to be done.  His leg whip, pitching style throwing motion has to be totally reworked.

Also (especially for those Thor Nystrom folks) the issues with JJ not being able to throw to the left have a Mitch Trubisky trajectory right now.

[Mike Sixel]

So his mechanics need a complete redo? We're more than this year from knowing I guess.... Or is another excuse raising the question why or if he was taught wrong?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

On 11/17/2025 at 4:38 PM, TheLeviathan said:

Right, next years class is pretty trash.  Which aligns well with 2027 being a time to admit failure IMO.

I’m a McCarthy bobo (or, I can already tell I will be labeled one) but yeah I can buy into this timeline. Depending on 2026, I can see going into 2027 with a veteran FA as the #1, McCarthy #2 or battling for #1 with one more season to prove something here, and #3 as the new QB draft pick.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

13 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

So his mechanics need a complete redo? We're more than this year from knowing I guess.... Or is another excuse raising the question why or if he was taught wrong?

There must be speaking in shorthand, or something lost in translation. I would imagine overhauling a quarterback’s mechanics would be a last resort, like asking a pitcher to change his delivery. 

I have a long list of excuses lined up to defend McCarthy with, but needing to relearn how to throw a football is not one of them. Also I don’t have a football eye so who knows. 

[Danchat]

On 11/17/2025 at 4:22 PM, Vanimal46 said:

It was fan fiction in the McCarthy draft that Harbaugh would take his college QB and trade Herbert for a kings ransom….

Then again Herbert was just benched last game so maybe that possibility is growing?

He was injured, not benched.

 

18 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Yikes

Yeah, KOC has been teaching JJM the past two years, has that all been for naught? It reads as if he is a rehab project from the Jets, not a kid who has been learning in a supposedly QB-friendly environment. I have many doubts about KOC being a QB whisperer.

[gunnarthor]

Mechanics are weird. Chase Daniels' youtube review of McCarthy after the first week said he had good mechanics and a few others did too, in fact some Bears' fans were upset that Williams' footwork was worse than McCarthy's, in McCarthy's first start.

Now things seemed to have changed a bit. They say his mechanics are good in practice so maybe there is something to the 'amped up' argument. But we'll see. 

[nicksaviking]

3 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I’m a McCarthy bobo (or, I can already tell I will be labeled one) but yeah I can buy into this timeline. Depending on 2026, I can see going into 2027 with a veteran FA as the #1, McCarthy #2 or battling for #1 with one more season to prove something here, and #3 as the new QB draft pick.

There better be zero chance McCarthy is battling some FA vet for the #1 spot in 2027. If that's the case we already know he's not going to cut it and the team needs to give him the Josh Rosen treatment. In this scenario, the new QB draft pick should be the #1; stop fooling around with project QBs and go get a rookie that can start Day 1.

[Vanimal46]

Where we're going? We don't need any stinkin CBs.... 

[gunnarthor]

59 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Where we're going? We don't need any stinkin CBs.... 

They've been playing Moreau ahead of him and a lot more multiple safety looks with Ward and Jackson combining for 14 plays last week, vs. his one. Of the list of worries I have, how Flores uses his defenders is right at the bottom. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

18 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

There wasn't much more after that.  What struck me was how much the penalties and confusion are on him.  I assumed it was a combo of things, but Arif made a compelling case that JJ is struggling in the huddle.  A lack of command there definitely worries me.  

Like I said, I'm all in on this process and I'll stand by it being the right path no matter the outcome.  But there is a LOT of work to be done.  His leg whip, pitching style throwing motion has to be totally reworked.

Also (especially for those Thor Nystrom folks) the issues with JJ not being able to throw to the left have a Mitch Trubisky trajectory right now.

Yeah, this is a huge problem.  I'm willing to accept that JJM needs time to adjust to the speed of play in the NFL--that's logical.  But the one thing he should not be struggling on right now is the playbook.  He had all last year to do nothing but learn it.  He should know it forwards and backwards.  We're now saying he can't do simple things like remember two plays at a time, plays he should know in his sleep?

I disagree that the process was right no matter what.  Getting a QB was obviously the move, but only if you had full faith and confidence it was the right QB.  It seems pretty clear, at least right now, that JJM was/is not the right QB, and the Vikes should have either done what it took to land Maye (which I'm convinced KAM was trying, ineptly as it turns out, to do), or pursue QB through another avenue.

[Cap'n Piranha]

17 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

So his mechanics need a complete redo? We're more than this year from knowing I guess.... Or is another excuse raising the question why or if he was taught wrong?

This is what I was wondering earlier in the thread.  If the mechanics are off, when/why did that happen?  More importantly, why has it not been fixed?

[Cap'n Piranha]

On 11/19/2025 at 11:10 AM, TheLeviathan said:

I do think having a rookie scale QB for seasons 4/5 is enormously beneficial and should be part of the goal of drafting and developing a young QB.

But if you hit on that QB you will have to pay them.  When you do, you will have to draft well to stay in contention.

Part of why KC has stayed in the mix was that they nailed the 2022 draft in getting Karlaftis, McDuffie, Bryan Cook, and Leo Chanel.  Rashee Rice in 2023.  

Right now, KAM's draft success makes the odds of making McCarthy work dubious no matter which angle you take at it.  He won't be adding talent to support him now or extend the window into the future.

Definitely beneficial.  Having a good cheap QB is the greatest advantage in football.  But every single team would gladly prioritize good over cheap, which is why even the best offensive minds in the business (McVay, Shanahan, Reid) have spent big money on the QB position.  Certainly if cheap was even close to good in importance when it comes to QBs, one of those guys would deliberately create a carousel, where they would trade their good QB for a treasure trove of picks, and use that to further build up their team around whatever new cheap QB they drafted in the prior year's draft.  The fact that none of them do that tells me that NFL teams very much prefer the bird in the hand a good but expensive QB is.

[Mike Sixel]

13 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

They've been playing Moreau ahead of him and a lot more multiple safety looks with Ward and Jackson combining for 14 plays last week, vs. his one. Of the list of worries I have, how Flores uses his defenders is right at the bottom. 

The issue is having him on the roster in the first place. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

On 11/19/2025 at 12:12 PM, TheLeviathan said:

Arif is a brilliant writer and analyst.

This really is a very good article.  The one thing I would add is that I wonder if the situation of the QBs being compared to JJM is being taken into account.  On paper, JJM came into a nearly ideal scenario; great coaching, stacked skill positions, veteran expensive O-line, upper tier defense.  I'm not sure what more could have been done to set JJM up for success, unless the argument is that one or more of the aspects I listed above is not true.  If it's all true, then for JJM to fail this badly means he truly is just that bad right now, and barring significant leaps forward, he simply cannot be part of the QB room next year.