Is it time to rethink offensive production from the catching position?

[Brock Beauchamp]

"Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!"

Catchers Are Mashing The Baseball In 2025. That's Right, Catchers - Padres - Padres Mission

PADRESMISSION.COM

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Since 2018, catchers across baseball have shown steady improvement. Now, they're nearly league-average. Well, not the Padres.

 

[Vanimal46]

Once the ABS system is implemented, then I’ve got to imagine pitch framing becomes a thing of the past. Then all you really need is someone with a good arm to throw out base runners. It’ll be interesting to see if the defensive specialists like Austin Hedges are wiped out of the game. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

8 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Once the ABS system is implemented, then I’ve got to imagine pitch framing becomes a thing of the past. Then all you really need is someone with a good arm to throw out base runners. It’ll be interesting to see if the defensive specialists like Austin Hedges are wiped out of the game. 

Still need to call a good game, and actually catch a ball thrown at you at 100 mph.

i still do directionally agree that receiving the pitch to improve the odds of the umpire calling a strike won’t be a thing anymore and defensive specialists won’t be a thing anymore. They already are pretty rare.

[RpR]

9 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Once the ABS system is implemented, then I’ve got to imagine pitch framing becomes a thing of the past. Then all you really need is someone with a good arm to throw out base runners. It’ll be interesting to see if the defensive specialists like Austin Hedges are wiped out of the game. 

Pitch Framing is a thing of fairy tales , already.

[Parfigliano]

12 minutes ago, RpR said:

Pitch Framing is a thing of fairy tales , already.

Umps that get fooled by "framing" have no business being an ump.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

10 hours ago, RpR said:

Pitch Framing is a thing of fairy tales , already.

Please elaborate. I’m not sure I get what you mean.

[TheLeviathan]

Since pitch framing is real and does impact games, I look forward to ABS.

Framing is the flopping of baseball.

[DJL44]

15 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Still need to call a good game, and actually catch a ball thrown at you at 100 mph.

The pitching coach can call the game instead of the catcher. That happens all the time.

The catcher will still be expected to receive pitches and help control the running game. The latter seems less relevant in this era because teams don't steal that many bases, but it is still the #1 criteria that weeds out catchers defensively and contributes to the lack of offense. Players have to achieve a minimum pop time, or they can't play catcher in MLB.

The strategy may change with sinkers at the bottom of the zone. ABS will get those pitches called a strike and you'll need a catcher who can block the ball in the dirt.

I think there will still be defensive specialist catchers, but the emphasis will shift from framing to blocking pitches and controlling the running game.

A drop in stolen bases is a foreseeable unintended consequence of ABS. If the catcher no longer needs to frame pitches, they can set up to receive pitches in a stance that allows them to decrease their pop time. Instead of framing the pitch in the middle of the zone for the umpire, they can receive it like a pitch out and ready themselves to throw a few tenths of a second faster.

[RpR]

6 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Please elaborate. I’m not sure I get what you mean.

It exists only in the minds of those who believe in Slight of Hand.

[jorgenswest]

Is Gasper a fit at catcher?

The Twins are giving Gasper time behind the plate in AAA. He is hitting well there and maybe can put up a league average OPS in the majors. He didn’t hit well in his first shot where he rarely started.

He doesn’t throw out runners well but that could improve with less emphasis on framing. There are some good teams with catchers that don’t throw out runners well. The Yankees Escara has a major league average wRC+ but runners are 17/17 against him. The Astros Caratini has a league average bat over the last two seasons while runners are 31/35 stealing against him.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

6 hours ago, RpR said:

It exists only in the minds of those who believe in Sleight of Hand.

Magicians do get paid to perform illusions. It happens

[DocBauer]

I don't know that the ABS is coming soon. There's still a lot of bugs in the system to be worked out. But personally, I love the challenge system. I watched several ST games this season and was impressed how quickly and easily the system played out.

I was also very impressed when Jeffers and Vazquez proposed a challenge. I honestly don't recall a single time they were wrong in their challenges. That shouldn't be surprising since they are both experienced and quite smart.

While it's true that the bench COULD just call the game, there remains an ebb and flow to the game, and the interactions between the pitcher and catcher as to what's working, and what's not. So I don't know that that's necessarily true, or at least entirely accurate. And a catcher still needs to receive the ball well, within any system, and block the plate. He also needs to be able to throw reasonably well to prevent teams from running too successfully.

I still believe the relationship between the catcher and staff is of great importance. A good catcher works with the pitcher based on all pre-game meetings and overviews. That's not going away. The catcher will see things someone in the dugout might miss. It's not just a video game of what pitch to call next.

Again, I like the challenge system as I feel it gives a good catcher the ability to get calls correct. And for now, at least, I think that's a huge improvement. Of course, it works the same for BOTH teams.

I completely understand having a young catcher like Harper, athletic and a huge bat, and moving them elsewhere to save on their bodies and be able to play that special bat on a daily basis. There are only many Rodriguez's, Mauer's, and Posey's who can stay behind the plate for 100 games and be special hitters.

I just don't see the ABS completely changing the overall value of what a catcher needs to do, and their importance to working with the staff. So I don't see some sort of revolution where teams just suddenly place good hitters behind the plate who are limited in other tasks.

I like the Twins approach of sharing duties with a pair of good catchers, knowing they can DH once in a while. I like finding the best combination of defense and offense I can find, unless I find one of those SPECIAL guys to be the primary, undisputed #1. The Twins did pretty well with Mauer as the #1 and Redmond as a solid #2. But then again, Mauer was a special player. They haven't been so lucky with Vazquez as a compliment to Jeffers in an offensive way.

But as a GM, unless I find that SPECIAL #1, I'm looking for the best combo I can find for defense and offense. Because even when and if the ABS comes in to play, and the idea of pitch framing would seem to disappear, the responsibilities of the catcher calling a game, playing solid defense, throwing decently, and working with the staff aren't going to change.