Gotta Listen on Perkins?

[mudcat14]

Paraphrasing Olney, 'A bidding war would start' & "Perkins would be the #1 target in the trade market.' Seems like you have to dip your toe in the trade waters, doesn't it?

 

Link:AL Central Notes: Peavy, Perkins, McDonald, Indians: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

[jokin]

Ryan better be out in front of this passive-agressive PR campaign and demanding the moon, he'd get multiple offers, it's just that there's just so little history that he can pull this one off.

[mudcat14]

Responding to my own question, I'd certainly listen to the Red Sox if Bogaerts name was involved in some fashion. Maybe you could package Morneau, Willingham or Doumit and get one of the Sox many strong pitching candidates as well.

[B Richard]

I've seen it reported that the FO said, or at least indicated, it would have to be "blown away" with an offer to deal Perkins. Getting "blown away" might just happen if a bidding war starts. Let's hope the FO keeps its wits and knows when to pull the trigger if the situation arises.

[B Richard]

I see literally no chance of getting Bogaerts or the equivalent from ANYONE, bidding war or no bidding war.

[howieramone1406390264]

I just hope this is true. A very good, but nonessential piece, in the hands of one of the best GM's in baseball. Obviously the rebuilding plan is working, but getting lucky is always nice.

[Red Bull]

If teams that are true contenders but need a dominant closer start a bidding war I wouldnt count out one of the games top prospects. I mean the ultimate goal in every sport is to win the championship and if they think Perkins can help them do that than they will pay the price for sure.

[Badsmerf]

in the hands of one of the best GM's in baseball.

Who exactly are we talking about here?

[raindog]

I'd poop my pants if the Red Sox offered Bogaerts for him. Not going to happen.

 

Still, GMs can get stupid with closers. As much as I love Perkins, I would happily trade him for a top prospect.

[Brandon]

So we may get to see what it is like to be on the other side of the Capps / Ramos trade.....Nice.

 

I still don't see us making a trade as I see Perkins being around when we are competitive again.

[blairpaul715]

Well here is a trade proposal I made on another non Twins Daily thread, thumbs up or down?? Perkins, to Atlanta(and I know they are not desparate for a closer, but did lose their 2 best lefthanded setup men) for Joe Terdoslavich(24 yr old) switch hitting , 1st baseman , outfielder; Juan Jaime (25-26) hard throwing RH relief pitcher; and Alex Wood(22), hard throwing LH starting pitcher. Both pitchers have had health issues in the past, but both are dominant type players, Terdo is batting over .300, with decent power, prolly projects to 20-25 HR's a yr, and could fill 1st when Justin leaves.

[Brock Beauchamp]

It would take a top 50 prospect for me to trade Perkins. The guy is signed for peanuts through 2016. When it comes to Perkins, I don't think Ryan would be satisfied with high-upside, low minors guys or 2-3 "good" prospects for a guy like Glen (or at least he shouldn't).

 

I don't see it happening. You certainly shop the guy but I don't know if teams would be willing to part with someone who is probably the #1 prospect in their system.

[jimbo92107]

Three things make Perkins available:

 

1. Twins are going nowhere this season.

2. Burton could close. Not as good as Perk, but see thing 1.

3. Tonkin could be brought up, either as closer or setup man.

 

In light of thing 1, trading Perkins for an outstanding prospect would make sense for the Twins. Whether or not the trading partner is a contender matters not at all.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'm going to spend the weekend dreaming of Perkins and Morneau to Boston for Bogarts and Barnes...

 

I know it won't happen, but I can dream.

[mudcat14]

Three things make Perkins available:

 

1. Twins are going nowhere this season.

2. Burton could close. Not as good as Perk, but see thing 1.

3. Tonkin could be brought up, either as closer or setup man.

 

In light of thing 1, trading Perkins for an outstanding prospect would make sense for the Twins. Whether or not the trading partner is a contender matters not at all.

 

Tonkin's emergence over the past year and a half, plus the strong showings from Burton, Thielbar & Pressley make me think the Twins could afford to take the chance in dealing Perkins. It would have to be for a high-upside, or near sure thing, steady type return, though.

[jokin]

Well here is a trade proposal I made on another non Twins Daily thread, thumbs up or down?? Perkins, to Atlanta(and I know they are not desparate for a closer, but did lose their 2 best lefthanded setup men) for Joe Terdoslavich(24 yr old) switch hitting , 1st baseman , outfielder; Juan Jaime (25-26) hard throwing RH relief pitcher; and Alex Wood(22), hard throwing LH starting pitcher. Both pitchers have had health issues in the past, but both are dominant type players, Terdo is batting over .300, with decent power, prolly projects to 20-25 HR's a yr, and could fill 1st when Justin leaves.

 

The Braves would probably decide they don't have the need for Perkins. But if the circumstances would change, the Braves are richly deep in areas the Twins aren't--- SP, SS and C. I like Wood as a Starting Pitcher in the deal- but it seems doubtful they'd jettison him in-season as they are currently using him out of the pen as a lefty- they have other decent looking SP prospects, as well.

 

Evan Gattis is on the DL and part of the 3-headed catching alignment- he's the Braves most productive hitter with a .373 wOBA- so- not gonna happen. But, they do have 2 other terrific catching prospects, top-ranked defensive specialist, Christian Bethancourt and an absolute masher, Josh Elander. Both would definitely be blocked if the Braves re-sign McCann. Speaking of blocked, the ridiculous depth at key positions continues at SS for the Braves. Not only do they have the best fielding SS in baseball in Andrelton Simmons, they also have 23 year old Tyler Pastornicky (major league ready) and Jose Peraza (high ceiling 19 year old), among other SS possibilities.

 

As far as 1B goes? Plenty of in-house options for the Twins already and a fairly easy position to acquire talent when in need. If they can pull off something for their best trading prospect in Glen Perkins, it would have to be to improve the most pressing areas of need.

[blairpaul715]

Well starting pitching is a area of need, and I am not saying Braves would do this, but if this scenario did happen, I think , we would come out a little ahead of the Braves, barring future injury. Pastornicky by almost all accounts I have read thru Braves blogs is really not a shortstop , more of a second baseman, supposedly lacks range and arm strength to be full time shortstop. And in house first baseman, Parmalee? Colabello? if that is who you are referring to, I would put my stock in Terdoslavich, now if you were talking future, yes we have candidates that are a couple years away..............anywhooooo lol it was just a question of if we would come out ahead on that trade, and I think we would , I love speculating, being armchair GM

[diehardtwinsfan]

Three things make Perkins available:

 

1. Twins are going nowhere this season.

2. Burton could close. Not as good as Perk, but see thing 1.

3. Tonkin could be brought up, either as closer or setup man.

 

In light of thing 1, trading Perkins for an outstanding prospect would make sense for the Twins. Whether or not the trading partner is a contender matters not at all.

 

A non-contender won't give up as much for him. Perkins is an interesting case in that he's young enough to be asset on the next wave, but given his age, he's likely not going to be that asset for long. I'm torn in that he's also a fan favorite and that I really miss the early 2000s where we had 5 hard throwing/shutdown relievers in the pen... something we dont' have today. Perkins and Tonkin would be a start in that direction, and with the 2012 class, I could see one or two more names added to that list.

 

The flip side is that closers are extremely overvalued and someone will give up something of value for Perkins (the question will be if it's enough, but didn't Bailey get two top 100 prospects????). That could allow Burton to slide into the closer role and Tonkin to slide into a 7/8th role. Next year, the Twins could do the same with Burton (though he wouldn't bring as much in return) if he continues to pitch well and augment the next wave even more.

 

For the right offer, I think the Twins should do it... and yes, TR should be listening. That said, I think we can safely say he is listening. These are the types of trades that he excells at.

[Guest USAFChief]

I'm hoping Ryan is thinking to himself, "we need to add talent to our pitching staff...why would I trade away one of the few talented pitchers we currently have?"

[Brock Beauchamp]

I would put my stock in Terdoslavich

 

No way could I say that name with a straight face. Pass.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm hoping Ryan is thinking to himself, "we need to add talent to our pitching staff...why would I trade away one of the few talented pitchers we currently have?"

 

If he gets someone a little more highly regarded than Alex Meyer in return, that's a deal you have to make.

 

Otherwise, I'd just keep Glen. He's one of the best relievers in the league under a ridiculously cheap contract.

[jokin]

I'm hoping Ryan is thinking to himself, "we need to add talent to our pitching staff...why would I trade away one of the few talented pitchers we currently have?"

 

Because closers might be overvalued by many GMs in general and are in general, a luxury on a losing team? Plus, it's pretty much the Twins only tradeable asset at the major league level that affords at least a chance to make the team better in the long-term.

[J-Dog Dungan]

On a talk show yesterday (I think it was 100.3), there was actually a lot of discussion about this exact topic. They said a good comp of the type of player the Twins could get from trading Perkins would be Nick Castellanos (sp?) (Top 5 prospect in Detroit's system) plus another fairly good pitcher in the system.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I dont' see Detroit as a partner at all. They have 1 top 100 prospect and very little depth.

[jokin]

If he gets someone a little more highly regarded than Alex Meyer in return, that's a deal you have to make.

 

Otherwise, I'd just keep Glen. He's one of the best relievers in the league under a ridiculously cheap contract.

 

I agree it's a very team-friendly contract, he's a great MN guy and unquestionably one of the team's best pitching assets. But he's of little use to a team that's spinning its wheels this year, and probably next year. There are multiple hard-throwing relief pitchers coming up in the system. If you can get a top SP, C or SS candidate (of which the Braves, for example, have many), you have to consider the deal- and important to remember, not many closers dominate for long periods of time like Mariano Rivera did.

[Guest USAFChief]

Because closers might be overvalued by many GMs in general and are in general, a luxury on a losing team? Plus, it's pretty much the Twins only tradeable asset at the major league level that affords at least a chance to make the team better in the long-term.

 

If "closers" are overvalued by many GMs, maybe they're not really overvalued. Maybe they're undervalued by some fans.

 

Personally, I'm not all that concerned with which role Perkins is playing in the bullpen. I'm concerned with having a bullpen filled with good options. Maybe the role he's currently playing is "overvalued," maybe not. But having a shutdown bullpen, with multiple good arms, is NOT overvalued at all, IMO.

 

Perkins is good enough, young enough, and cheap enough to be a part of that future bullpen. I'd rather have him around to make the team better in the long-term (or at least the mid-term) than trade him for the chance someone else might eventually contribute. TINSTAAPP and all that.

 

Trade from excess. Trade from assets that won't/can't be around in 2014 and going forward. Trade spare parts that are temporarily overvalued and/or fill a glaring need for another team.

 

But don't trade away talent that will be around for a while. Add to that pool.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I agree it's a very team-friendly contract, he's a great MN guy and unquestionably one of the team's best pitching assets. But he's of little use to a team that's spinning its wheels this year, and probably next year. There are multiple hard-throwing relief pitchers coming up in the system. If you can get a top SP, C or SS candidate (of which the Braves, for example, have many), you have to consider the deal- and important to remember, not many closers dominate for long periods of time like Mariano Rivera did.

 

Really, I'd limit it to a SS or SP candidate but yeah, I think we mostly agree here. All I'm saying is that the haul better be a good one to trade Perkins because if it isn't, just hold on to him. Given his contract and age, he's just as tradeable this offseason or next July.

[Brock Beauchamp]

If "closers" are overvalued by many GMs, maybe they're not really overvalued. Maybe they're undervalued by some fans.

 

Eh, then you have to argue that "math" undervalues them. I think it's pretty clear that, given their typical use, closers are not worth $10m+ contracts for 4-5 years. They're fickle, have a tendency to spectacularly collapse, and are one of the most under-utilized assets of most baseball teams.

 

Where a good closer shines is a one-run lead in the ninth inning. How often does that happen a season? 15, 20 times?

 

Closers by nature are not lacking in value. In fact, you could argue the opposite... Closing a game means a win. Wins get you to the playoffs.

 

What decreases their value is the absolutely asinine way in which the closer, who is often the best pitcher on the roster, is utilized by management.

[jokin]

If "closers" are overvalued by many GMs, maybe they're not really overvalued. Maybe they're undervalued by some fans.

 

Personally, I'm not all that concerned with which role Perkins is playing in the bullpen. I'm concerned with having a bullpen filled with good options. Maybe the role he's currently playing is "overvalued," maybe not. But having a shutdown bullpen, with multiple good arms, is NOT overvalued at all, IMO.

 

Perkins is good enough, young enough, and cheap enough to be a part of that future bullpen. I'd rather have him around to make the team better in the long-term (or at least the mid-term) than trade him for the chance someone else might eventually contribute. TINSTAAPP and all that.

 

Trade from excess. Trade from assets that won't/can't be around in 2014 and going forward. Trade spare parts that are temporarily overvalued and/or fill a glaring need for another team.

 

But don't trade away talent that will be around for a while. Add to that pool.

 

The Twins have the #1 relief pitching ERA in the AL (#2 overall behind the Braves). Added to that, all the very intriguing RP arms in the pipeline...... That's looking to deal from a position of excess.

 

Please elaborate on what big gains will be made from trading temporarily overvalued players (Clete Thomas?)

 

And yes, Glen Perkins (who it can be argued is having a career year) should only be traded when he "fills a glaring need for another team" because presumably TR can rob them blind in the process of their desperation.

[Cody Christie]

I think it would take a lot to get Perkins away from the Twins. Probably more than other teams are going to offer. He is signed to so a low deal that the Twins are most likely going to keep him around.

 

Anything can happen at the deadline but I think Perkins is staying put.