2025 Vikings Offseason

[Vanimal46]

I would have rather played out his original contract, but hey, it’s not my money. 

[Mike Sixel]

I mean, one awful draft aside, he's done very good work. It all rests on McCarthy, but I'm not sure you can wait to see if he's good to sign him?

[gunnarthor]

I'm glad we got this done. He's done a great job as GM, including hiring KOC and keeping the team competitive while fixing the cap issues. Mostly though, I think the Vikings culture, top-down, is fantastic. Let's keep that together as long as we can. 

[Vanimal46]

47 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I mean, one awful draft aside, he's done very good work. It all rests on McCarthy, but I'm not sure you can wait to see if he's good to sign him?

2023 draft is basically Addison. We will see if Blackmon comes back to start at CB… Jay Ward is a special teams only guy, and the other 2 are already off the team (Hall and McBride). We don’t know much at all about the 2024 class with Turner not getting much playing time. 

I think there’s still a ton of improvement to be made with drafting. 

[gunnarthor]

8 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

2023 draft is basically Addison. We will see if Blackmon comes back to start at CB… Jay Ward is a special teams only guy, and the other 2 are already off the team (Hall and McBride). We don’t know much at all about the 2024 class with Turner not getting much playing time. 

I think there’s still a ton of improvement to be made with drafting. 

Not sure that's fair. We used the 2nd rounder for Hockenson. Using picks for other forms of value shouldn't be ignored. If the 2023 draft if Addison, Hockenson, Blackmon, and a few other guys, it looks a lot better. 

We used a 6th rounder this year to add RB Mason. That's real value.

[Mike Sixel]

10 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

2023 draft is basically Addison. We will see if Blackmon comes back to start at CB… Jay Ward is a special teams only guy, and the other 2 are already off the team (Hall and McBride). We don’t know much at all about the 2024 class with Turner not getting much playing time. 

I think there’s still a ton of improvement to be made with drafting. 

Agreed. I'm trying very hard not to judge Turner, but failing. I loved the pick, but it's hard to see how he plays much again next year. 

I don't blame him for injuries. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, gunnarthor said:

Not sure that's fair. We used the 2nd rounder for Hockenson. Using picks for other forms of value shouldn't be ignored. If the 2023 draft if Addison, Hockenson, Blackmon, and a few other guys, it looks a lot better. 

We used a 6th rounder this year to add RB Mason. That's real value.

Also a good point. 

[Vanimal46]

7 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

Not sure that's fair. We used the 2nd rounder for Hockenson. Using picks for other forms of value shouldn't be ignored. If the 2023 draft if Addison, Hockenson, Blackmon, and a few other guys, it looks a lot better. 

We used a 6th rounder this year to add RB Mason. That's real value.

The #1 trait I want in a GM is their ability to draft. It’s the life blood of any NFL team. Going all out in free agency isn’t a sustainable option. And his only success story in the draft to date is Addison. That’s just a fact. 

I have high hopes for the team but there’s no denying that we are an old team. We need some young talent to keep up our winning ways. 

[Vanimal46]

10 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Agreed. I'm trying very hard not to judge Turner, but failing. I loved the pick, but it's hard to see how he plays much again next year. 

I don't blame him for injuries. 

We traded basically the 2025 draft to pick Turner. If he doesn’t pan out that’s real value lost. 

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

We traded basically the 2025 draft to pick Turner. If he doesn’t pan out that’s real value lost. 

And this idea that some say he's young so next year doesn't matter either is bad. They don't have him until a certain age, they have him for 5-6 years. 

[Fatbat]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

I mean, one awful draft aside, he's done very good work. It all rests on McCarthy, but I'm not sure you can wait to see if he's good to sign him?

Lots of questions about McCarthy but really only one, can he win with a mature allstar type of team around him. and possibly the best head coach in the NFL right now.  McCarthy is going to be wildly successful if he is anything close to serviceable. He could end up in MVP talk if the vikes roll from day one game one. 

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

2023 draft is basically Addison. We will see if Blackmon comes back to start at CB… Jay Ward is a special teams only guy, and the other 2 are already off the team (Hall and McBride). We don’t know much at all about the 2024 class with Turner not getting much playing time. 

I think there’s still a ton of improvement to be made with drafting. 

Agree, one awful draft, one pretty bad draft and two TBD drafts. Definitely overall a poor area of job performance at this time.

But due to his excellent free agency moves, I'd rather have him, than not have him, so I guess I'm OK with this.

Still, I'd like the Vikings to do something revolutionary and hire someone specifically to head up the draft process. Still have many people working many functions and collaborating in scouting, research, interviews and drafting, but one draft guru who has the final say: not KAM. Yeah, it takes authority from the GM, and GMs across the league wouldn't like this, but it really would be no different than the head coach. The GM is still HIS boss, but the head coach still has final say in who starts and what plays are run, and I suspect on most teams, which players make the roster.

[Fatbat]

I view a successful GM as a guy that can keep reloading talent and winning games. Especially in the playoffs. 
Drafting successfully is paramount to long term franchise health. Young guys have to play above their payroll as they develop into their prime. I see signing UDFA as the same thing. You gotta find that cheap missing link that everyone overlooked. Once you build a winner, you have to keep restocking the shelves every year. 
FA’s are nice but you need the cap space to sign the best ones in their prime. FA’s cant be the way to build. Its just not sustainable. A year ago, the smart people picked the vikes to win 6 games. The same people are now saying 10 wins. When you look at the new roster, 10 is light. McCarthy is a winner. Get used to WINNING!

[TheLeviathan]

7 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Agree, one awful draft, one pretty bad draft and two TBD drafts. Definitely overall a poor area of job performance at this time.

But due to his excellent free agency moves, I'd rather have him, than not have him, so I guess I'm OK with this.

Still, I'd like the Vikings to do something revolutionary and hire someone specifically to head up the draft process. Still have many people working many functions and collaborating in scouting, research, interviews and drafting, but one draft guru who has the final say: not KAM. Yeah, it takes authority from the GM, and GMs across the league wouldn't like this, but it really would be no different than the head coach. The GM is still HIS boss, but the head coach still has final say in who starts and what plays are run, and I suspect on most teams, which players make the roster.

How are we calling 2023 bad?

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

How are we calling 2023 bad?

A #2 WR who probably won’t get a second contract and nobody else? I guess we could debate whether it was bad or just ‘eh’ but it definitely wasn’t a positive checkmark for anyone.

[TheLeviathan]

6 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

A #2 WR who probably won’t get a second contract and nobody else? I guess we could debate whether it was bad or just ‘eh’ but it definitely wasn’t a positive checkmark for anyone.

So we count the Hockenson trade as a negative against drafting ability?

Addison is going to get a monster 2nd contract from someone.  

[Mike Sixel]

3 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

So we count the Hockenson trade as a negative against drafting ability?

Addison is going to get a monster 2nd contract from someone.  

He's also likely to be traded for a second or more, imo. 

Until this GM gets more than one starter a draft, it's hard to say they are good at drafting. I keep liking picks, and they keep not contributing. 

[TheLeviathan]

25 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

He's also likely to be traded for a second or more, imo. 

Until this GM gets more than one starter a draft, it's hard to say they are good at drafting. I keep liking picks, and they keep not contributing. 

I'm not trying to argue he's "good" at drafting, but the argument should be made fairly.  2022 was an unmitigated disaster.  2024 and 2025 are TBD.  

But 2023?  Those picks yielded Addison, Hockenson, and Blackmon.  How in any fair analysis is that "bad"?

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I'm not trying to argue he's "good" at drafting, but the argument should be made fairly.  2022 was an unmitigated disaster.  2024 and 2025 are TBD.  

But 2023?  Those picks yielded Addison, Hockenson, and Blackmon.  How in any fair analysis is that "bad"?

Because it's not sustainable to trade picks for expensive players. It was an ok draft, but I wouldn't call it good. 

[TheLeviathan]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

Because it's not sustainable to trade picks for expensive players. It was an ok draft, but I wouldn't call it good. 

I'm not sure it's good yet either, partly because Blackmon lost all of last year.  But if he's a solid corner I am willing to slide that draft to "good".  

And no, that's not a sustainable model, but the team has done other things to help make that workable.  They let the average, overpriced QB go.  They have made good undrafted moves.  They've pounced in free agency at great prices.  

Now the last two drafts have to step up.  I'm just stumping for fair criticism is all.  That haul is not "bad" by any rational definition. 

[DocBauer]

I'm OK with the extension as I think he's done well reshaping the roster in general and has done a good job mitigating what was a bad salary situation.  He's done a tremendous job in FA and better than most teams in UDFA. 

His first 2 drafts were pretty bad. And a GM has to work with his head of scouting and coaches to keep the lifeblood of the franchise flowing through the draft. I also agree that the 2023 draft was pretty good when the move for Hockensen is factored in.

2024 will be defining for him. They potentially selected a franchise QB. Turner flashed as a 21yo rookie when he was on the field. But he also had a pair of veterans making contributions ahead of him. Year 2 is his time to shine.  They also drafted a great kicker and a pair of OL, and a DL, that have potential, even if they only turn out to be good backups.

With a limited 2025 draft, and so early, it's impossible to say if they did well with their limited options. But Jackson being a mainstay for years at LG could almost make the draft himself. As to the rest of the draft, it's a HUGE TBD. There's no way to possibly predict how good Felton might be at WR. Georgia doesn't produce poor athletes. Can Flores and his staff mold Ingram-Dawkins? King is a tough kid and tackling machine, but how well can he actually "move"? I actually kinda like Bartholomew as a depth TE with some potential. But again, a limited draft that is TBD.

I do like the way Kwesi has manipulated the 2026 draft to give the Vikes 9 projected picks, including 4 in the first 3 rounds. He's still got some things to prove in regard to drafting. But he's also done enough so far overall that even with 2024 and 2025 TBD, it's hard not to give him an extension. 

[Fatbat]

@DocBauer I couldn’t agree more. Kwesi has built a team that will win, he just hasn’t done it by drafting 4/5 new starters in every draft. He is great at signing FA’s and manipulating the cap so his leadership should translate to long term success. Have any details come out about the length of his contract extension?

[TheLeviathan]

It's worth remembering also that Kwesi and KOC got hired under an ownershi mandate not to tank or strip assets.

Part of why the 2022 draft was a disaster was a desperation to replace the depleted depth on the team.  It sucked, but can you name another franchise that has pulled off the "competitive rebuild"?

[nicksaviking]

On 5/31/2025 at 6:53 AM, TheLeviathan said:

So we count the Hockenson trade as a negative against drafting ability?

Addison is going to get a monster 2nd contract from someone.  

When did I say that? They've had 24 picks from 2022-2024 and only one of them has proven to be a capable starter in the NFL. As I said, it's still TBD on the 2024-25 classes, but there's no way to say Vikings have drafted well during his time. Maybe in a few years it we will say it turned out pretty good, but it's clearly isn't getting positive grades.

 

[TheLeviathan]

7 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

When did I say that? They've had 24 picks from 2022-2024 and only one of them has proven to be a capable starter in the NFL. As I said, it's still TBD on the 2024-25 classes, but there's no way to say Vikings have drafted well during his time. Maybe in a few years it we will say it turned out pretty good, but it's clearly isn't getting positive grades.

 

You called the '23 draft bad but omitted all context to do it.  You're not making a fair argument.

[nicksaviking]

10 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

You called the '23 draft bad but omitted all context to do it.  You're not making a fair argument.

What context was omitted? That it's too early to make a definitive opinion? I didn't omit that.

It doesn't change the fact that there were dozens of players drafted throughout the 2023 draft that have already shown to be valuable players and the Vikings didn't draft any of them, Knock on wood McCarthy turns out to be elite.

Simply, I've said multiple times that KAM has not proven to be good at drafting but I'd still retain him. I can't imagine the only acceptable positions are either that, I have to want him gone, or I have to unconditionally applaud him. 

 

[TheLeviathan]

3 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

What context was omitted? That it's too early to make a definitive opinion? I didn't omit that.

It doesn't change the fact that there were dozens of players drafted throughout the 2023 draft that have already shown to be valuable players and the Vikings didn't draft any of them, Knock on wood McCarthy turns out to be elite.

Simply, I've said multiple times that KAM has not proven to be good at drafting but I'd still retain him. I can't imagine the only acceptable positions are either that, I have to want him gone, or I have to unconditionally applaud him. 

 

Your argument was that 2023 was evidence of bad drafting because they "only" got Addison.  But they dealt the second and third most impactful potential picks to get Hockenson.  Who is still on the team as a key part.  I don't know how there is any rational way to call 2023 "bad" given they came away with Addison, Hockenson, and possibly Blackmon.  

You could've argued it doesn't count good or bad because they traded so many picks, but instead you argued on the quantity of quality players they got, purposely leaving out that they dealt key picks to add a quality player.  Then called it "bad" based on that framework where you deliberately omitted value. That just isn't a fair way to do it.

[nicksaviking]

29 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Your argument was that 2023 was evidence of bad drafting because they "only" got Addison.  But they dealt the second and third most impactful potential picks to get Hockenson.  Who is still on the team as a key part.  I don't know how there is any rational way to call 2023 "bad" given they came away with Addison, Hockenson, and possibly Blackmon.  

You could've argued it doesn't count good or bad because they traded so many picks, but instead you argued on the quantity of quality players they got, purposely leaving out that they dealt key picks to add a quality player.  Then called it "bad" based on that framework where you deliberately omitted value. That just isn't a fair way to do it.

In my last post I thought you were referencing 2024, not 2023, so that's my mistake on the confusion. 

But who cares about the adjective I used, it was like five posts ago. One useful player out of 24 draft picks is the argument, and that is not good, even if many are still TBD. 

I honestly can't understand how anyone can sit here an argue that his drafting has been good. Yeah, if he doesn't use the picks well, I would continue to advocate for him to trade them for more Hockensons.

[TheLeviathan]

23 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

In my last post I thought you were referencing 2024, not 2023, so that's my mistake on the confusion. 

But who cares about the adjective I used, it was like five posts ago. One useful player out of 24 draft picks is the argument, and that is not good, even if many are still TBD. 

I honestly can't understand how anyone can sit here an argue that his drafting has been good. Yeah, if he doesn't use the picks well, I would continue to advocate for him to trade them for more Hockensons.

I think the adjective is informative on the legitimacy of the argument.   Saying 2023 is "bad" because you got one player (who you also purposely diminished the value of) speaks to a deeply unfair framing.

His drafting hasn't been good.  It was a disaster in 2022, it was alright given we only had a 1st and late picks in  2023, and our returns on the last two are TBD.  It isn't a strength, but I dont need a disingenuous argument to conclude that.

[Vanimal46]

The HOF committee did him so dirty. Couldn’t let the man know he’s a HOF player before he passed away. RIP to one of the best players to ever wear a Vikings helmet.