How much longer is the front office going to sit around and watch this team underperform?

[Woof Bronzer]

58 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I think people are making way too big a deal of this extension. It doesn't mean he sticks as manager until the end of his contract. Managers get fired all the time, in the middle of their contracts. This is making a mountain out of a molehill, which I understand because we're all frustrated as heck about the current situation. But honestly, I don't even think Rocco is the problem. All of this starts at the top. 

Oh I agree with you, managers get fired after extensions all the time and Rocco is just a symptom of the problem.  My concern is with the thinking behind it, which seems to be a mentality and approach that doesn't prioritize results.  We see this same mentality game after game with guys who shrug their way to a dozen Ks and another loss.  There's something stinky in the water over at 1 Twins Way and  the longer we keep rolling with this FO the worse it's going to get.

[Squirrel]

51 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Oh I agree with you, managers get fired after extensions all the time and Rocco is just a symptom of the problem.  My concern is with the thinking behind it, which seems to be a mentality and approach that doesn't prioritize results.  We see this same mentality game after game with guys who shrug their way to a dozen Ks and another loss.  There's something stinky in the water over at 1 Twins Way and  the longer we keep rolling with this FO the worse it's going to get.

As I said, it all begins at the top, so we agree on that. It took a loooooong time before Terry Ryan was let go. I mean, we had some fun teams to watch that almost were but never were when they could have been with just a little bit more. One of the reasons Hunter and Santana left. Not sure where Joe Pohlad stands on that. As I've always said many a time on these pages, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I temper my expectations and just divest any emotional energy from it if the product isn't to my liking, as that is the only thing I have control over. When it comes to sports, I get excited and cheer on the good things, and say 'meh' and walk away from the bad things. I just can't expend the energy on something that is just a game. And I lack the understanding and empathy for those who seem to live and die by these games. It's how I can be critical and shrug my shoulders without having to rant about every little thing as some do. But, to each their own. It's how I roll. :)  

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Row Labels	Average of W%	Average of ALC Finish	Sum of Playoffs	Count of Year	% Playoff
Falvine	52.20%	2.142857143	3.5	7	50.0%
Baldelli	52.95%	2.2	2.5	5	50.0%
Molitor	50.31%	2	1	2	50.0%
Smith	51.07%	2.25	2	4	50.0%
Gardenhire	51.07%	2.25	2	4	50.0%
Ryan	47.38%	3.333333333	4	18	22.2%
Gardenhire	50.94%	2.666666667	4	9	44.4%
Kelly	43.81%	4.142857143	0	7	0.0%
Molitor	43.83%	3.5	0	2	0.0%
Grand Total	49.05%	2.896551724	9.5	29	32.8%

 

I gave the current year a currently first place and currently in line for a post season berth (.5 out of 1 in the playoff column)

How much leash will Falvine get with the Pohlads? Probably alot, look at how much they gave Terry Ryan. How much will Baldelli get from Falvine? Likely less but still another year or two.

[dadams1000]

5 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Not the biggest fan of this FO, but most of the players you mentioned were not drafted by them. (Buxton, Sano, Kepler, Hicks and AK) just Larnach and Rooker.

I wasn't necessarily referring to the current FO but to the Twins organization as a whole. 

[LA Vikes Fan]

It was frank;y good to see Baldelli call out Kepler and it get in the paper. This is after all 3 Strib columnists essentially said it was time for Kepler to go. At least someone is trying to shake up the troops a little. This group needs it. Now it's time to sit Kepler on the bench and leave him there for a few games at least.  

Whenever a suggestion is made to shake up things, people default to negative stereotypes about the players and manager like, "they are to complacent, don't care..." etc. I don't mean that, I think the players are trying, but that doesn't change the result or what we need.  The problem here is the current approach is not working and there has been enough of a sample size to see that it's not going to work with the current group. That leaves two choices -(1) change the approach (don't see how they can do that), or (2) change the players. We have to change the players. There are three obvious moves - DFA Kepler and Garlick, and option Larnach down. One goes for Wallner (Garlick), Kepler goes when Gallo comes back, and Larnach goes for Julien. Why on earth we still ahe Garlick is a complete mystery - he is hitting .192, .158 against lefties. He's 31. He's done. Kepler is right behind him in futility. Larnach is hitting .153 in his last 30 games, .050 in his last 7. Contreras was better last year. 

Will this help? Who knows but things are unlikely to get worse and a shake up that includes a least one long term untouchable guy could be what we need. Staying the curse is a very bad strategy for this group. 

[In My La Z boy]

4 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

It was frank;y good to see Baldelli call out Kepler and it get in the paper. This is after all 3 Strib columnists essentially said it was time for Kepler to go. At least someone is trying to shake up the troops a little. This group needs it. Now it's time to sit Kepler on the bench and leave him there for a few games at least.  

Whenever a suggestion is made to shake up things, people default to negative stereotypes about the players and manager like, "they are to complacent, don't care..." etc. I don't mean that, I think the players are trying, but that doesn't change the result or what we need.  The problem here is the current approach is not working and there has been enough of a sample size to see that it's not going to work with the current group. That leaves two choices -(1) change the approach (don't see how they can do that), or (2) change the players. We have to change the players. There are three obvious moves - DFA Kepler and Garlick, and option Larnach down. One goes for Wallner (Garlick), Kepler goes when Gallo comes back, and Larnach goes for Julien. Why on earth we still ahe Garlick is a complete mystery - he is hitting .192, .158 against lefties. He's 31. He's done. Kepler is right behind him in futility. Larnach is hitting .153 in his last 30 games, .050 in his last 7. Contreras was better last year. 

Will this help? Who knows but things are unlikely to get worse and a shake up that includes a least one long term untouchable guy could be what we need. Staying the curse is a very bad strategy for this group. 

I would imagine trade discussions are happening. Someone (Giants) will buy low on Kepler, and a change of scenery might turn him around for someone else. No turning him around here it looks like. 

[MABB1959]

On 6/8/2023 at 4:35 PM, Whitey333 said:

Sometimes it feels like the FO doesn't even care if they win or not.  It's been a very long time since I have seen this Twins organization as messed up as it is.  This isn't new.  This has been going on for the third straight season now.  I'd like to see the sports media put more pressure on the players and especially management.  Someone needs to be held accountable for this mess.  Yet all we hear us bad luck, bad umpiring, and injuries.  Some of those injured players haven't done well anyway for two seasons.  Let's back off using the sick, lane, and lazy as excuses.  

A lot longer than 3 season. I would say 10+ at the very least. Longer if you go back to their last playoff win. 

[MABB1959]

On 6/8/2023 at 4:17 PM, purplesoldier4u said:

How much longer is the Falvey/Levine/Rocco era going to last?

Forever!  The Pohlad’s aren’t going to want to payout their remaining years. 

[LastOnePicked]

7 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

His contract was set to runout after 2022 which would've made him a "lame duck" manager

I've heard this before, but I don't understand the argument. What long-term decisions is a manager supposed to make for a team? I understand a "lame duck" congressional session, but it seems that you would want a major league manager on the "hot seat," to prove that they're deserving of an extension in the offseason. What did the Twins have to lose by letting Baldelli's previous contract play out to its conclusion.

[chpettit19]

7 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

I've heard this before, but I don't understand the argument. What long-term decisions is a manager supposed to make for a team? I understand a "lame duck" congressional session, but it seems that you would want a major league manager on the "hot seat," to prove that they're deserving of an extension in the offseason. What did the Twins have to lose by letting Baldelli's previous contract play out to its conclusion.

The argument you typically hear is the challenge with maintaining authority in the clubhouse, or locker room in other sports. Managers, coaches, etc. are tasked with handling 26 egos of professional athletes, and sometimes convincing them to do things they don't want to do. Most professional athletes have not been told "no" very often. They've been the best player on almost every team they've ever played for, and gotten to do just about anything they want because of it. Many of the players are making more than the manager, and some are established stars.

Earning the respect of those guys is vital to being successful. There's a great article on The Athletic about Correa testing Popkins when he first got here to see if he was worth listening to, and could actually help. If the team isn't willing to lock the manager in beyond the current season it doesn't look like they have faith in him. If the team doesn't have faith in him, why should the players? If the players don't have faith in the manager how is the manager supposed to be successful in his job? If they don't respect him, and he asks them to do something they don't want to do, they likely do it, but not with 100% effort, and if you're not going 100% in pro sports, you're not winning.

[Shobae]

I agree with most of what stringerbell said though I do think at some point the FO has to start making some moves here regarding the position player side of things. There are 98 games left in the season for the twins (not counting the one that is currently ongoing) so lots of season left but at some point you have to act on the current data, without having the full sample of a whole season. That's after all what they get paid to do, make the difficult decisions when there isn't always as much data as you'd want. But I don't really know when that point is, 70 games in? 81? at the trade deadline?
I do think the sunk cost fallacy is in full effect on Kepler, he should have been rehabbed/kept on the IL to let wallner's hot streak play out. Instead we've been treated to .129 with a walk and no XBH since his return. I think it's time to accept you messed up by not trading him at the deadline and cut your losses. Keeping him on the team longer just gives more evidence to confirm they are dealing with sunk cost.
Secondly, is the approach of the hitters and hitting coach. I mean I guess it was a choice to pick up a guy with little experience from high A and send him to the bigs. Don't know how well you can deduce his specific impact on performance, but as has been pointed out many times on TD many indicators don't look good. I think changing the offensive approach is certainly needed because strikeout all the time with middling power and walk rates isn't a winning formula. But that is also going to take some time so it's possible they've already started working on that with hitters and we're going through the growing pains currently (lets hope).
 

[Irishman]

I googled MLB team pitching and batting ranks.

Twins team ERA - 3.43 in 2nd place while team batting avg of .225 in 26th place.