Changes coming for the Twins?

[JB_Iowa]

As for serious changes, I don't see it. A player or two will move around, but nothing will change in scouting, minor league development, or major league approach until this GM is gone. And does anyone think that is happening anytime soon?

 

No. And that's why a lot of my baseball viewing no longer takes place on Fox Sports North. I've been a Twins fan since 1965 but I'll admit that my allegiance has ebbed at times (mostly due to events in my life, less due to the team). I can endure bad teams but I had problems with the "Back to the Future" approach of reinstating Terry Ryan as GM and was hoping the "interim" title was truly that. I don't know how much I can endure of the present culture of Twins management. The spring breezes have been blowing hard here. I wish they would blow through the Twins organization and do some spring cleaning (okay, I'll take fall cleaning -- its always breezy then, too).

[Guest USAFChief]

Hey, it's another fire Gardy thread!

 

You're free not to participate, but thoughts about possible upcoming management changes seem to me appropriate in a thread about possible upcoming changes.

[jokin]

Did Ryan send Doumit the other day from third on a pop fly to RF (out by 30 feet)?

Does Ryan play Willingham (who had a 2 run homer for the wrong team couple games ago) at the outfield?

 

Yes, it is Ryan's fault and he (like Gardy) should be a goner after the season and the Twins have to start with a clean slate; but getting rid of a couple of the coaches (Anderson being the first with the team's pitching the worst in the majors for a third year in a row) will go a long way towards saying that the people who run this team care if the team wins or not.

 

As is now, they do not care, because apparently "nothing is broken" for them.

 

I was suspended for making this quote a headline to a thread.

[jokin]

As for serious changes, I don't see it. A player or two will move around, but nothing will change in scouting, minor league development, or major league approach until this GM is gone. And does anyone think that is happening anytime soon?

 

Not a chance. Who exactly is Dave St Peter the boss of?

[clutterheart]

Did Ryan send Doumit the other day from third on a pop fly to RF (out by 30 feet)?

Does Ryan play Willingham (who had a 2 run homer for the wrong team couple games ago) at the outfield?

 

Yes, it is Ryan's fault and he (like Gardy) should be a goner after the season and the Twins have to start with a clean slate; but getting rid of a couple of the coaches (Anderson being the first with the team's pitching the worst in the majors for a third year in a row) will go a long way towards saying that the people who run this team care if the team wins or not.

 

As is now, they do not care, because apparently "nothing is broken" for them.

 

Gardy ddeserves a lot of heat and he is not the best game manager. But he has shown when given the tools he can win.

 

All I am saying is this is a poorly constructed team and blaming Gardy for the losses is putting blame in the wrong spot. Blame lies with ownership and their desire to cut costs in the third year of a taxpayer funded stadium.

 

Gardy might be fired at the end of the year and maybe that will be the right decision. But If there is one thing we should learn from when the T-wolves fired Saunders is that manager changes can bring a lot of unexpected chaos.

[cmathewson]

John, love your work, but you are wrong on our thoughts on Gardy. These thoughts are based on a decade of post-season futility, the inability to grow young players, the fact they do NOT do the little things well, these thoughts are based on a lot more than a few games in 2013.

 

His job is to coach, and help these guys do more things well than they did before they came up. Do you see that? I don't. I don't see a team that has done the little things well in years (and Seth and Howard have been typing that for at least 2 years). I don't see a manager that nurtures his young talent, and helps them grow. I don't see a guy that understand shifts. I don't see a guy that understands that the save is a stupid stat that influences his behavior in bad wasy. I don't see a guy that can change as the game around him changes at all.

 

Oh, and it is not all his fault. The GM has decided that NOT spending money is the way to win, and saddled him with an awful pitching staff, among other issues.

 

Let's recap. In the last five years, they've changed GMs twice, replaced the guy who runs the draft, the guy who runs player development, every coach and manager in the minors, the minor league coordinator, the minor league hitting and pitching instructors, and five major league coaches. From the outside, this does not appear to be a change-averse organization.

 

They have said they don't make moves just to make moves, and that they value continuity. But you don't fail repeatedly and keep your job.

 

Changes are already happening. Three roster moves this week. And more to come. Patience.

[TheLeviathan]

We've never had thread like this!

 

We should totally talk about what is actually happening: Pelfry sucks, Correia going back to what he actually is, Diamond regressing, bullpen coming back to the fold, the offense can't hit, many of the young players aren't playing, Mauer only has 13 RBIs, Willingham is doing his best Butera impression, Morneau is doing his best Mauer impression, and I could go on.

 

But I'm sure no one would complain about those topics either. If anything, this is about the most positive thing people could talk about right now.

[cmathewson]

We should totally talk about what is actually happening: Pelfry sucks, Correia going back to what he actually is, Diamond regressing, bullpen coming back to the fold, the offense can't hit, many of the young players aren't playing, Mauer only has 13 RBIs, Willingham is doing his best Butera impression, Morneau is doing his best Mauer impression, and I could go on.

 

But I'm sure no one would complain about those topics either. If anything, this is about the most positive thing people could talk about right now.

 

Thank you. You've brightened my day!

[nicksaviking]

 

Gardy might be fired at the end of the year and maybe that will be the right decision. But If there is one thing we should learn from when the T-wolves fired Saunders is that manager changes can bring a lot of unexpected chaos.

 

Why would you compare baseball with basketball? Perhaps you could look at last year and notice the improvement by the Orioles, White Sox and A's who all had the same suspect talent but unexpectedly competed due to managerial changes.

 

Still I've said it before, I don't want to see Gardy fired unless Ryan is canned first. Gardy's in game management has been poor and he keeps throwing the young guys under the bus for petty mistakes, but this is Ryan's mess and I don't want to see him try to lay the blame on someone else. The game has passed him by and he does not seem comfortable with the current economic boon and contract trends that the other clubs are utilizing to stay competitive.

[nicksaviking]

But terrible moves like pinch running Dozier for Willingham in the eighth is a good reason to can Gardy now. The odds that the game will go extra innings and Willingham will bat again is higher than the odds that the difference between Dozier's speed and Willingham's speed will result in an immediate run. There are very few situations where Dozier could score when Willingham could not.

[stringer bell]

This thread has morphed into an examination of the Twins management staff. I have mixed feelings about both. 1) Gardenhire has won when he had the talent and a couple times when he didn't have as much talent as the competition. However, most managers have a "shelf life" and he probably has passed his expiration date. A different style and voice might be needed for the next generation of players. Gardenhire can manage another team if he doesn't get his contract extended or is fired. I'd like to see what Gardy can do with a strong rotation, but it doesn't look like he'll have a chance. 2) Ryan comes from the scouting side of baseball front offices. He knows talent and has demonstrated he can build a farm system. My questions about Ryan center on the change for the Twins from small market to medium market. Ryan has handled the checkbook as if Calvin Griffith was signing the checks, seemingly always opting for bargain basement players, sometimes hitting, but often missing. When pursuing free agents, he has been unwilling to pay the price for good talent and may have not adjusted to the "strikeouts good" pitching philosophythat favors hard throwers. I submit that Ryan has again built a good future for the Twins, but 2013 is a lost cause. Middle market teams should do better in down years.

[howeda7]

This thread could be about Tom Kelly circa 1999 or 2000. When the talent gelled in 2001, suddenly knew how manage again. The current streak is frustrating, but a mid-season change isn't happening. If we win 63 games again, Gardy will be gone. If we win 78, he won't. Let it play out.

[Guest USAFChief]

This thread could be about Tom Kelly circa 1999 or 2000. When the talent gelled in 2001, suddenly knew how manage again. The current streak is frustrating, but a mid-season change isn't happening. If we win 63 games again, Gardy will be gone. If we win 78, he won't. Let it play out.

Wasn't Kelly gone after 2001?

[howeda7]

Wasn't Kelly gone after 2001?

 

Yes, but 2001 was his last year and the first year that the new group clicked. He left on his own.

[Cap'n Piranha]

may have not adjusted to the "strikeouts good" pitching philosophythat favors hard throwers.

 

I think TR clearly understands the importance of strikeouts, as evidenced by his moves in the minors in the past year. Here is a list of pitchers TR has acquired in his current stint that are currently averaging close to, or greater than, a k/IP;

 

Melotakis, Berrios, Muren, Baxendale, Jones, May, Meyer, Thompson, Perdomo, O'Connor, Deduno, Wood, Burton.

 

And that's not counting guys who put up the same type of averages last year, but haven't started playing yet;

 

Mata, Merck, Chargois, Powell, Ferreira, Bard.

 

By my count, that's 19 guys in less than two years, and I have a suspicion that our draft strategy this year will be similar to last year's, i.e. power, strikeout arms. I think TR gets it.

[Mike Sixel]

Let's recap. In the last five years, they've changed GMs twice, replaced the guy who runs the draft, the guy who runs player development, every coach and manager in the minors, the minor league coordinator, the minor league hitting and pitching instructors, and five major league coaches. From the outside, this does not appear to be a change-averse organization.

 

They have said they don't make moves just to make moves, and that they value continuity. But you don't fail repeatedly and keep your job.

 

Changes are already happening. Three roster moves this week. And more to come. Patience.

 

great post. I stand somewhat corrected. They really didn't change GMs twice, though. Ryan went on vacation, and stayed on as a consultant so he didn't have to take care of a bunch of things he didn't want to do, imo. When those were done, he decided to come back.

 

But you are right, there have been a lot of changes. Now they need to aim higher, imo.

[Mike Sixel]

I think TR clearly understands the importance of strikeouts' date=' as evidenced by his moves in the minors in the past year. Here is a list of pitchers TR has acquired in his current stint that are currently averaging close to, or greater than, a k/IP;

 

Melotakis, Berrios, Muren, Baxendale, Jones, May, Meyer, Thompson, Perdomo, O'Connor, Deduno, Wood, Burton.

 

And that's not counting guys who put up the same type of averages last year, but haven't started playing yet;

 

Mata, Merck, Chargois, Powell, Ferreira, Bard.

 

By my count, that's 19 guys in less than two years, and I have a suspicion that our draft strategy this year will be similar to last year's, i.e. power, strikeout arms. I think TR gets it.[/quote']

 

Ryan does NOT run the draft.

[jay]

Ryan does NOT run the draft.

 

No, but you would certainly think he has a large say in the vision and strategy of where they're trying to go -- which, without specific names, is kind of what we're talking about here if the goal is to target more strikeout-type guys.

[Cap'n Piranha]

Ryan does NOT run the draft.

 

If you think he doesn't have HEAVY involvement, and ultimate say-so, you're crazy. Perhaps he's not finding these guys, but if he didn't want them in the system, odds are they wouldn't be.

[Mike Sixel]

Everytime I compliment Smith for his player acquisitions, I get reminded he does not run the draft. Everytime I rip the Twins for not having any good young players for the last few years (and how those players would have been acquired when Ryan was GM), I get reminded he does not run the draft. I just can't win......

[jay]

Everytime I compliment Smith for his player acquisitions, I get reminded he does not run the draft. Everytime I rip the Twins for not having any good young players for the last few years (and how those players would have been acquired when Ryan was GM), I get reminded he does not run the draft. I just can't win......

 

Haha... maybe you're getting draft and acquisitions mixed up?

 

Bottom line is the Twins have certainly made changes throughout the organization recently, as was pointed out, and they have also made some clear changes to their draft approach.

 

I think we'll care a lot more about who is responsible for that if the wave of upcoming prospects don't pan out and we're subjected to more 90+ loss seasons. In that case, the buck always stops at the top... TR.

[TwinsFanInPhilly]

Agree. We can't have it both ways. We can't enter the season and, based on the roster, say this is a 7-win team, and then when they're on pace for 71 wins, say "We need to make a change at manager."

 

It surprises me that you have no clue what your readers are capable of.

[ThePuck]

Everytime I compliment Smith for his player acquisitions, I get reminded he does not run the draft. Everytime I rip the Twins for not having any good young players for the last few years (and how those players would have been acquired when Ryan was GM), I get reminded he does not run the draft. I just can't win......

 

it's okay...Sano, Kepler, both are Smith's :-)

[ThePuck]

If you think he doesn't have HEAVY involvement' date=' and ultimate say-so, you're crazy. Perhaps he's not finding these guys, but if he didn't want them in the system, odds are they wouldn't be.[/quote']

 

Ryan himself said he's barely involved in the process as GM

 

DL: What is your role in the draft?

 

 

TR: Not too much. I watch and listen. I do go to see some [players]. I see some. Just enough to be dangerous. That dabbling in the scouting world is a dangerous situation, because you don’t have a very good cross-section of what’s out there. I can do the skills, and I can do the makeup, probably. It doesn’t take any genius to go out and run a stopwatch or look at a radar gun or mechanics, and evaluate the skills. If you’ve been around, you can do that. But where does he go country-wise? Is he up here, or is he down here? I don’t see enough to be able to slot him in very well. That’s when it’s dangerous. That’s why I stay out of it and let our scouting department make the choices. They are the ones that live and die with it 365 days out of the year. I’m only a dabbler and that’s not good. '

 

right there he says: 'That’s why I stay out of it and let our scouting department make the choices.'

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/qa-terry-ryan-twins-general-manager/

[nicksaviking]

By my count' date=' that's 19 guys in less than two years, and I have a suspicion that our draft strategy this year will be similar to last year's, i.e. power, strikeout arms. [b']Ithink TR gets it.[/b]

 

Well why did it take him so long? We need to settle for the last GM that recognizes the value in a strikeout?

[Mike Sixel]

facts, Puck, have no bearing in this conversation......

[ThePuck]

facts, Puck, have no bearing in this conversation......

 

Just THIS conversation? :-)

[jay]

'That’s why I stay out of it and let our scouting department make the choices.'

 

We're debating whether TR 'gets' the need for power arms or not. He's clearly saying that he doesn't make the actual choices during the draft because the scouts have more knowledge on that year's specific players.

 

But whether it's Berrios, Melotakis, etc that are in the system or some other power arms... the specific players are kind of irrelevant. It's clear from the recent drafts that they've changed their strategy and we'd be remiss to think the GM isn't responsible for setting the strategy for the scouting/drafting team to execute. That strategy clearly reflects an effort to draft more power arms. So, yes, the facts have bearing (despite the sarcasm) and the point remains... TR gets it.

[Mike Sixel]

No, we were responding to the assertion that he is heavily involved in the actuall drafting of players.....no one was responding about whether or not TR gets it (ok, one post was). It's even quoted in post 54.

[jay]

By my count' date=' that's 19 guys in less than two years, and I have a suspicion that our draft strategy this year will be similar to last year's, i.e. power, strikeout arms. I think TR gets it.[/quote']

 

Ryan does NOT run the draft.

 

Lol... well, it kind of started with Cap'ns point about strategy and the type of guys we've drafted and evolved into who runs the drafts with your response... but I digress!

 

So, yes -- TR doesn't run the draft or even really influence the selection decisions, but has to be largely responsible for (at least approving) the change in strategy to draft more power arms overall. See, we all win.