Game Thread: Twins v White Sox, 4/12 @ 12:10 CT

[cheeseheadgophfan]

5 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Totally fair that mIF is more important than cOF. But Wallner is terrible. There's not a scouting report out there that has him above a 45 defensive grade. Fangraphs page for him has a 20 current, 30 future field grade for him. There's not a defensive metric out there that grades him well. He's a terrible defender and the team has openly spoken about his need to remain in AAA to work on his defense.

OMG.....so you wanted Rocco to keep Julien in the game defensively?  He NEVER (at this point in his career) makes that play that Gordon made....

[jkcarew]

41 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

With Farmer out, who is up next? An OF or (hahahaha, no way) Lee?

Really good question…they literally have no OF or IF left, including Lee, without having to make a 40-man move. Is Polanco ready? It’s close, I know. And will Castro then be the SS? 

[wsnydes]

Just now, cheeseheadgophfan said:

OMG.....so you wanted Rocco to keep Julien in the game defensively?  He NEVER (at this point in his career) makes that play that Gordon made....

All one game?

I mean, he does have a 1.000 fielding %!

[cheeseheadgophfan]

Just now, wsnydes said:

All one game?

I mean, he does have a 1.000 fielding %!

That could've been an error in the early innings (I know he didn't touch it blah blah blah) but a major leaguer should make that play.

All this and I want Julien in the lineup....BUT the defensive replacement was the right move.

[cheeseheadgophfan]

Rocco just said the Buxton was coming out of the game after the collision.  Apparently, Vazquez was set to hit for him....

Just reading the tea leaves....I'll be shocked if he plays at least for the next couple of games....

[chpettit19]

7 minutes ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

OMG.....so you wanted Rocco to keep Julien in the game defensively?  He NEVER (at this point in his career) makes that play that Gordon made....

I don't want Julien or Wallner in the game at all defensively. There's a whole bunch of plays that Wallner doesn't make either. Rocco didn't know the tough play was going to be in the IF and not the OF. I can totally understand the idea that he wanted to strengthen the middle IF defense at the detriment to the corner OF defense. Totally get that. Makes sense. But he took out the better hitter to replace him with an equally bad defender just in a different spot defensively. And in doing so he took away his last non-catcher bench bat to do it.

Vazquez was set to hit against a righty for Buxton in the 8th if they'd gotten there while Wallner hit against a lefty for Julien. That's not an ideal situation. And they were in that spot because Rocco took out a brutal defender in Julien to put in a brutal defender in Wallner. Over an entire season I don't think you win that overall team performance battle frequently enough to want that strategy deployed regularly. There's more to these decisions than simply "well Gordon is better than Julien so it's a win."

[wsnydes]

4 minutes ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

That could've been an error in the early innings (I know he didn't touch it blah blah blah) but a major leaguer should make that play.

All this and I want Julien in the lineup....BUT the defensive replacement was the right move.

I was watching on the radio, so I can't comment.  

[cheeseheadgophfan]

2 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I don't want Julien or Wallner in the game at all defensively. There's a whole bunch of plays that Wallner doesn't make either. Rocco didn't know the tough play was going to be in the IF and not the OF. I can totally understand the idea that he wanted to strengthen the middle IF defense at the detriment to the corner OF defense. Totally get that. Makes sense. But he took out the better hitter to replace him with an equally bad defender just in a different spot defensively. And in doing so he took away his last non-catcher bench bat to do it.

Vazquez was set to hit against a righty for Buxton in the 8th if they'd gotten there while Wallner hit against a lefty for Julien. That's not an ideal situation. And they were in that spot because Rocco took out a brutal defender in Julien to put in a brutal defender in Wallner. Over an entire season I don't think you win that overall team performance battle frequently enough to want that strategy deployed regularly. There's more to these decisions than simply "well Gordon is better than Julien so it's a win."

So you would've left Julien in at 2nd?   

[cheeseheadgophfan]

2 minutes ago, wsnydes said:

I was watching on the radio, so I can't comment.  

Backhand play....he kinda went down to one knee and the ball went under his glove.  Never got the glove down.

[chpettit19]

7 minutes ago, jkcarew said:

Really good question…they literally have no OF or IF left, including Lee, without having to make a 40-man move. Is Polanco ready? It’s close, I know. And will Castro then be the SS? 

From everything they've said about wanting Polanco to get a full spring training workload before they bring him back I'd be shocked if they bring him up now, but I don't know what their other move is (assuming an IL trip for Farmer). Are they going to DFA someone tomorrow to call someone up for 3 days before Kepler is back (I think I'm doing the math right on his IL time)? Do they just play short handed until Kepler is back? Will be interesting to see what they do.

[chpettit19]

5 minutes ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

So you would've left Julien in at 2nd?   

Yes. And maybe they'd have lost the game because of that one play. Or maybe he gets a hit instead of Wallner's flyout and they score another run or 2 in the 8th 🤷‍♂️

[D. Hocking]

9 minutes ago, wsnydes said:

I believe so.  Maybe not a game thread, but I'm pretty sure threads have been locked.  

Yes - I think the game threads have had a few warnings -- if you don't knock it off, I am going to pull the car over, but don't remember one being locked. 

There have been some non-game threads, especially non-baseball,  that got a bit heated and locked, but don't think I have seen that in a while, and it was never done lightly.  

[LA Vikes Fan]

With Farmer assumedly out for a few days, do they put him on the IL? If they do, who comes up? Kepler isn't available until 4/15 and that's assuming no rehab assignment. Gallo is available 4/18 and is on a rehab assignment. I understand that they may just ride out the next couple of days and then activate Kepler.  Still, I saw the pitch Farmer took to the face. I  have to think he goes on the 10 day Il and isn't available for at least a few days. They are now out of 40 man rostered field players so Wallner or Julien has to go down to AAA to bring someone up.    

So, who comes up? Anybody? LaMarre, Garlick, bring back Polanco early? Play Willi Castro every day? All scary options, My guess is that they don't make a move until Kepler or Gallo can come back, then either IL Farmer or send Wallner down, and just play shorthanded for a few days. Not good. 

[wsnydes]

Just now, D. Hocking said:

Yes - I think the game threads have had a few warnings -- if you don't knock it off, I am going to pull the car over, but don't remember one being locked. 

There have been some non-game threads, especially non-baseball,  that got a bit heated and locked, but don't think I have seen that in a while, and it was never done lightly.  

Oh yeah, I know that the warnings have come down, but I can't think of a game thread that's actually been locked.  

And no, locking a thread is not taken lightly.  We have other tools that would need to be exhausted before that happened.

[cheeseheadgophfan]

5 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Yes. And maybe they'd have lost the game because of that one play. Or maybe he gets a hit instead of Wallner's flyout and they score another run or 2 in the 8th 🤷‍♂️

Cool....we can agree to disagree.  Wallner's flyout also got Castro over to 3rd.....not a bad AB.

[D. Hocking]

6 minutes ago, wsnydes said:

Oh yeah, I know that the warnings have come down, but I can't think of a game thread that's actually been locked.  

And no, locking a thread is not taken lightly.  We have other tools that would need to be exhausted before that happened.

I still cannot believe you got away using this for so long before that cease-and-desist order was issued.  It was pretty effective though.

[chpettit19]

Just now, cheeseheadgophfan said:

Cool....we can agree to disagree.  Wallner's flyout also got Castro over to 3rd.....not a bad AB.

A guy on 3rd with 2 outs isn't nothing, but if that's what we're considering any sort of real win we're in trouble. My point is simply that there's 2 sides of the ball, and taking Julien out for Wallner has other effects than simply putting Gordon at 2B. If the ball was hit to Wallner and he butchers it for a double instead of being hit to Gordon for that out was it still a good move? Because if they use that strategy over an entire season that's going to happen a number of times. And you very well may be someone who still thinks it was the right move even if it goes wrong.

Playing "guess where I need my good defender this game even if it hurts the offense" is not a real strategy. It worked well today. I'm glad. I can understand wanting to strengthen the defense up the middle. But that was still a 1 run game and having to have Wallner hit against a lefty also matters in a close game. Trying to break that decision down to simply "Gordon for Julien at 2B" is missing a lot. But this is why TD exists. To debate the intricacies of baseball strategy! I appreciate the back and forth.

[wsnydes]

1 minute ago, D. Hocking said:

I still cannot believe you got away using this for so long before that cease-and-desist order was issued.  It was pretty effective though.

I'm still shocked that you were able to author a cease-and-desist order from inside one of those things!

[Musk21]

16 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

With Farmer assumedly out for a few days, do they put him on the IL? If they do, who comes up? Kepler isn't available until 4/15 and that's assuming no rehab assignment. Gallo is available 4/18 and is on a rehab assignment. I understand that they may just ride out the next couple of days and then activate Kepler.  Still, I saw the pitch Farmer took to the face. I  have to think he goes on the 10 day Il and isn't available for at least a few days. They are now out of 40 man rostered field players so Wallner or Julien has to go down to AAA to bring someone up.    

So, who comes up? Anybody? LaMarre, Garlick, bring back Polanco early? Play Willi Castro every day? All scary options, My guess is that they don't make a move until Kepler or Gallo can come back, then either IL Farmer or send Wallner down, and just play shorthanded for a few days. Not good. 

Garlick is being called up. Farmer will go on the IL to have a procedure to fix his teeth and for a "major" laceration to his lower jaw.

[D. Hocking]

The 2011 to 2015 or 16 seasons (I have blocked out what were the actual years) were dark times where people had to learn to what they needed to survive to make it to the other side.

[chpettit19]

4 minutes ago, Musk21 said:

Garlick is being called up. Farmer will go on the IL to have a procedure to fix his teeth and for a "major" laceration to his lower jaw.

Who's getting DFA'd in this situation? I believe they're at 40 on the 40-man, are they not?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

With starting pitchers going deeper into games (thank god finally) I think they need to send down a bullpen guy with options for still one more position player, whoever that might be. 

[Musk21]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

Who's getting DFA'd in this situation? I believe they're at 40 on the 40-man, are they not?

Sounds like Celestino likely to the 60 Day IL.

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, Musk21 said:

Sounds like Celestino likely to the 60 Day IL.

Ah, that's not bad. I'd wondered about that before the season since he can still be on a rehab assignment in the minors and not really have to miss 60 days.

[chpettit19]

6 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

With starting pitchers going deeper into games (thank god finally) I think they need to send down a bullpen guy with options for still one more position player, whoever that might be. 

I feel like Cole Sands may not mind getting sent down and actually getting to play some baseball at this point.

[cheeseheadgophfan]

23 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

A guy on 3rd with 2 outs isn't nothing, but if that's what we're considering any sort of real win we're in trouble. My point is simply that there's 2 sides of the ball, and taking Julien out for Wallner has other effects than simply putting Gordon at 2B. If the ball was hit to Wallner and he butchers it for a double instead of being hit to Gordon for that out was it still a good move? Because if they use that strategy over an entire season that's going to happen a number of times. And you very well may be someone who still thinks it was the right move even if it goes wrong.

Playing "guess where I need my good defender this game even if it hurts the offense" is not a real strategy. It worked well today. I'm glad. I can understand wanting to strengthen the defense up the middle. But that was still a 1 run game and having to have Wallner hit against a lefty also matters in a close game. Trying to break that decision down to simply "Gordon for Julien at 2B" is missing a lot. But this is why TD exists. To debate the intricacies of baseball strategy! I appreciate the back and forth.

Last thing i'll say on this topic....I promise.  Julien almost made 2 errors today.  The ground ball under his glove should've been fielded.  The throw to first after catching the line drive was terrible and only wasn't an error because it hit the railing.  When's the last time you've seen a right-fielder make 2 errors in one game (that didn't involve the White Sox LOL) ????

[LA Vikes Fan]

23 minutes ago, Musk21 said:

Garlick is being called up. Farmer will go on the IL to have a procedure to fix his teeth and for a "major" laceration to his lower jaw.

Thanks. still, another RH hitter that can't hit RH pitching. We need Polanco, Gallo, or even Kepler back pretty badly. 

[I wish the twins were good]

No matter how bad a day I may be having, I can take solace in the fact that at least I am not in need of a procedure to 'realign my teeth'. Guy deserves a medal for that - purple baseball. 

 

[chpettit19]

9 minutes ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

Last thing i'll say on this topic....I promise.  Julien almost made 2 errors today.  The ground ball under his glove should've been fielded.  The throw to first after catching the line drive was terrible and only wasn't an error because it hit the railing.  When's the last time you've seen a right-fielder make 2 errors in one game (that didn't involve the White Sox LOL) ????

Outfielders don't tend to pile up errors because of things like the ground ball Julien should've gotten. If Wallner simply can't get to the ball it's not an error (as shown by the sox having 0 errors today despite Gavin Sheets looking like me in RF). So, in that sense, it probably happens almost daily somewhere in baseball.

So far this year the Twins 2B have recorded 36 outs and RF have recorded 22. That's basically 1 extra out a game. But that includes double plays. If Julien can't turn a double play we're really in trouble.

[John Belinski]

Having Gordon bat 4th is a joke. He must be the worst number 4 batter in all of today's games, but what can we expect from Rocco? Rocco should be able to look at player's batting averages and make a better choice. Fans must wonder how good would the Twins be with a real manager?