Twins 2023 Position Analysis: Catcher

[Nine of twelve]

Some are saying to trade for a good catcher. That would be nice, but no team with a good catcher would trade him unless offered a significant overpay, and then they'd still say no. Some are saying to take the best catcher available with the 5th overall pick. OK, but then don't be angry when the player taken #6 becomes a star.

We were so spoiled by having one of the five best catchers in history playing for us. Now we are seeing how difficult it is for catching to be a strength. While we should always strive to improve in every facet of the game, when it comes to catching we need to be satisfied with satisfactory.

[Mike Sixel]

57 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

Some are saying to trade for a good catcher. That would be nice, but no team with a good catcher would trade him unless offered a significant overpay, and then they'd still say no. Some are saying to take the best catcher available with the 5th overall pick. OK, but then don't be angry when the player taken #6 becomes a star.

We were so spoiled by having one of the five best catchers in history playing for us. Now we are seeing how difficult it is for catching to be a strength. While we should always strive to improve in every facet of the game, when it comes to catching we need to be satisfied with satisfactory.

You can trade veterans for C prospects....that might or might now work. Did anyone say trade for a good veteran?

[DocBauer]

I actually like what we have, and the depth. And I didn't when the offseason began. 

I think the Vazquez signing was major! He's an experienced and well regarded game caller and defender. If he only hits to his career norm quad slash numbers, I'm very happy for what he brings at the bottom of the order. And much like Castro did a few years ago for Garver, he provides an example and mentor for the still young Jeffers. 

And I'm in the camp that actually likes Jeffers a lot, especially now as the "secondary" catcher. He's generally solid defensively, and I like the way he calls a game. The pitchers seem to like working with him. And that's still the most important part of being a backstop. Is there room for defensive improvement? Absolutely. His CS% in 2021, as I recall, was just slightly below league average. He definitely slid back in 2022. But I'm not sure how much of that was him, vs fault also with some of the pitchers not holding runners or being slow to the plate.

Offensively, he needs to take a step forward. But the guy hit in college, hit in the minors, hit in his brief 2020 debut, and has real juice in his bat. We've seen glimpses of him being hot. So while I don't know what adjustments he needs to make, at 25yo, with a history of hitting, real power, and only 591 PA and 534 AB, I think there's real, legitimate hope for the bat to come around. At worst, he's a solid game caller with power as a #2.

I just don't have a lot of faith in Sisco...once a well regarded prospect...ever doing much. But Greiner and Wolters have ML experience to work with the St Paul staff and that is HUGE. While neither is probably as good as Leon as a receiver, not having to trade for a #3 catcher...if and when needed...is not a bad thing.

Regarding prospect depth, I have to agree that the organization is in short supply. I also have to agree that I just can't include Williams in that group. It's my understanding he's actually solid as a receiver from the mental standpoint, but he's been mostly a 1B/DH the last year or so. I have to speculate that part of that goes back to his shoulder injury in college.

Carmago I think is interesting. It's my understanding that the basic skills are all there, but a little unrefined yet, but that he's actually pretty solid. He's got good power. I think he's going to end up as a mediocre hitter with power who might have a future as a decent backup. But he's not a top prospect unless the actual BAT starts to pick up.

FIVE catchers drafted the last two years, along with a couple international signings, offers some hope. But they are all 3-5yrs from probably reaching the ML. A few have flashed a little in A ball, providing some hope. So a lot may be riding on Jeffers shoulders in regard to a step up.

And that might just mean the Twins need to look at a trade in the next year or two, or another FA signing. But I actually like where we are heading in to 2023.

[Riverbrian]

My hope will always be that the Twins are able to develop catching. 

I am happy that Vazquez is here because he is needed and I have high hopes for him. 

However, paying the inflated catching price to get good catching is the exact opposite of what I want to see happen.

I'd rather we develop catching and sell at the inflated catching price. 

The fact that you are buying (Vazquez) it means you don't have to the developed goods to sell (Jeffers). 

I'm wondering who is next in line on the farm and hoping we grow something as soon as possible. 

[Nine of twelve]

4 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

I'd rather we develop catching and sell at the inflated catching price. 

The catching supply will always fall short of the demand, so selling could take place only if we are in the highly unlikely position of having a never-ending supply. The hoped-for goal is to develop catching and pay the salary required to keep the developed catcher.

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, Nine of twelve said:

The catching supply will always fall short of the demand, so selling could take place only if we are in the highly unlikely position of having a never-ending supply. The hoped-for goal is to develop catching and pay the salary required to keep the developed catcher.

No doubt that that is better than buying at the inflated price. 😉

However... According to baseballtradevalues. If the Twins wanted to acquire Adley Rutschman from the Orioles. It would cost us - Brooks Lee, Pablo Lopez, Jose Miranda and Joe Ryan. I'd take that trade if I was the Orioles and be happy with whoever at the catching position for overall improvement of the 26 man product.  

The Rutschman price tag is high I admit so let's look at Sean Murphy. Still High but not quite as high. Sean would cost us Joe Ryan and Jose Miranda. I'd also take that trade and be happy with whoever at the Catching position because Miranda alone should exceed Murphy's offensive production. 

Now consider the numbers provided by Hire Dan Gladden earlier in this thread. 

Here is the games caught leader list for 2022:

 

J.T. Realmuto, PHI [C]	133
Sean Murphy, OAK [C|DH]	116
Cal Raleigh, SEA [C]	115
Martin Maldonado, HOU [C]	113
Jose Trevino, NYY [C]	112
Jonah Heim, TEX [C]	111
Jacob Stallings, MIA [C]	110
Will Smith, LAD [C|DH]	109
Christian Vazquez, HOU [C]	108
Keibert Ruiz, WAS [C]	106
Austin Hedges, CLE [C]	105
Elias Diaz, COL [C]	104
Austin Nola, SD [C]	101
Carson Kelly, ARI [C]	100

You can get back a better hitter who will play more games for the price of inflated catcher value. 

It's possible that the odds of Jeffers becoming inflated catcher value decreased as soon as Vazquez put pen to paper. 

Don't get me wrong... I'm glad that Vazquez is here... we need him but I'm looking to the pipeline again in hopes that the Twins can develop that guy. If we ever do... no doubt I would consider cashing in because selling high is smart. 

[umterp23]

Article makes Jeffers look like he is always on the IL but one stint because of a freak wild pitch in the dirt during a warmup session breaks his thumb.  He played through such break for almost 2 weeks and was hot with the bat at the time plus trying to throw a ball.  So one stint and people think he is buxton part 2.  

Jeffers is playing pretty well in S/T and has out-performed Vasquez the anointed the savior the position.  Now the arguments from readers will be that it is only S/T performance and Jeffers still is awful.  Well, if it is only S/T then Vasquez who was "sick" to start game play and has masterfully hit .077 thus far.  

Twins have depth with these two guys and Farmer as emergency, so we are good for now.  Let's not forget that Jeffers self taught himself to be a catcher and didn't have a dedicated coach till getting drafted.  The twins don't seem to be to worried about throwing guys out, when you put the guy in such an awkward catching position that is flexible with blocking balls or throwing runners out.  He did throw someone out yesterday so maybe seeing his confidence will grow seeing him get a guy.

25 years old, calls a good game, solid receiver and guys like to pitch to him.  Mgmt will play the guys equally and not tax either one.  If Jeffers we aren't stuck when he plays unlike what most readers think.

[ashbury]

7 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

The catching supply will always fall short of the demand, so selling could take place only if we are in the highly unlikely position of having a never-ending supply.

We acted like it was a never-ended supply when we disposed of two of them in a connected series of trades just under a year ago.

[Nine of twelve]

10 hours ago, ashbury said:

We acted like it was a never-ended supply when we disposed of two of them in a connected series of trades just under a year ago.

Remember that we also received a catcher in those trades. Even so, it's certainly a risk trading an established catcher.

[Jocko87]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/03/rangers-release-sandy-leon.html

I wonder if they could talk him into a minor league deal with extra cash.  Presence at AAA working with the pitcher and not really taking meaningful playing time.  Break glass for MLB emergency.