2023 Vikings Off Season Thread

[cHawk]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Derrick Carr?

Yuk.

[Mike Sixel]

48 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Signing Carr just seems like a Cousins redux to me. Neither are bad QBs, but neither are the kind that could put your team over the top. I just want to try winning with a top tier QB for once. I know, that SEEMS like a lot to ask, but I can name six I think unequivocally qualify and another 2-4 which are close, if not already in that group. I mean, 20%+ of the league has one, can't the Vikings EVER get one? 

How do you plan to get one? Not happening next year. 

[Mike Sixel]

50 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Signing Carr just seems like a Cousins redux to me. Neither are bad QBs, but neither are the kind that could put your team over the top. I just want to try winning with a top tier QB for once. I know, that SEEMS like a lot to ask, but I can name six I think unequivocally qualify and another 2-4 which are close, if not already in that group. I mean, 20%+ of the league has one, can't the Vikings EVER get one? 

You can name ten you are sure are better than Cousins? Wow

[Vanimal46]

6 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

The more I think about it, the more I wonder WT* is going to happen with Kirk and the QB position after this year.....

Ordering this in my preference…

-  Tack on one more year to his contract so you can FOR SURE trade him next offseason. 

- Trade him this offseason for whatever you can get. I think he can fetch at least a 2nd round pick. MAYBE a 2024 1st round pick. 

- Play out the last year of his contract and risk him walking for nothing more than a comp pick. 

(mountain sized gap)

- Extend him for multiple seasons. 

[Vanimal46]

I can also be easily convinced trading Kirk now is the correct call and the Vikings sign someone like Jacoby Brissett. We’ll probably end up going 5-12 with that path but it opens up the possibility of drafting a top QB in 2024. 

[cHawk]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

You can name ten you are sure are better than Cousins? Wow

I am sure Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Trevor Lawrence, Aaron Rodgers, and Jalen Hurts are all better than Cousins. That's only eight, but close enough.

[Vanimal46]

5 minutes ago, cHawk said:

I am sure Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Trevor Lawrence, Aaron Rodgers, and Jalen Hurts are all better than Cousins. That's only eight, but close enough.

The irony is some QBs on past top 10 lists ended up regressing heavily (Wilson and Stafford) or ended up retiring (Brady) and Kirk still ends up perpetually in the 11-15 range for QB rankings. 

[Mike Sixel]

50 minutes ago, cHawk said:

I am sure Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Trevor Lawrence, Aaron Rodgers, and Jalen Hurts are all better than Cousins. That's only eight, but close enough.

Trevor Lawrence? No. I'm not sure about Rodgers anymore either. You do know the Vikings won 13 games with the second worst defense? That Kirk led them to comeback after comeback?

[nicksaviking]

13 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

How do you plan to get one? Not happening next year. 

Pretty much all the top tier QB are drafted. Most early. At some point the Vikings have to suck it up and get one the conventional way.

[nicksaviking]

13 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

You can name ten you are sure are better than Cousins? Wow

Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow, Jackson, Allen and Hurts should be considered elite. I don't know why that isn't enough to make the Vikings want to find their own long term young QB. 

Better is kind of an abstract word for QBs though. I'm convinced Cousins could NEVER put the team on his back to win a Super Bowl, so why keep trying? There are other young guys that have a better shot than Kirk ever will. The way Trever Lawrence finished made it look like he's ready to take the leap. Tua looked like he was closing in on that group before he had his head caved in. Kyler Murray seems like he's closer to imploding than ascending, but he's dallied in the top tier at times. No one wants Deshawn Watson, but, he's clearly more talented than Cousins.

Not to get too deep in the minutia here, because there are numerous reasons to move one, but not a single one of those guys mentioned makes that play Cousins did to end the season. The best of them would have known the TE was way short of the line to gain and changed the route in the huddle or at the line of scrimmage. Most of the rest would have rather thrown it to a WR, even if he was covered. But every single one of them would have been able to escape that pressure, and even if the TE was the only option to throw to, the other QBs would have made the LB commit to covering the TE, or coming to the line of scrimmage to tackle the QB, and whichever option the TE chose, the QB would have made him pay by doing the opposite.

[nicksaviking]

11 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

The irony is some QBs on past top 10 lists ended up regressing heavily (Wilson and Stafford) or ended up retiring (Brady) and Kirk still ends up perpetually in the 11-15 range for QB rankings. 

Agree, the rankings are fluid, and Cousins isn't a bad QB. The Vikings are just ready for a top tier QB. They've had one season with a top tier QB since Culpepper was in his prime, and that top tier QB had a grey beard and could barely move. Seems we're way overdue for our turn to have one of those game changing players.

[Mike Sixel]

52 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow, Jackson, Allen and Hurts should be considered elite. I don't know why that isn't enough to make the Vikings want to find their own long term young QB. 

Better is kind of an abstract word for QBs though. I'm convinced Cousins could NEVER put the team on his back to win a Super Bowl, so why keep trying? There are other young guys that have a better shot than Kirk ever will. The way Trever Lawrence finished made it look like he's ready to take the leap. Tua looked like he was closing in on that group before he had his head caved in. Kyler Murray seems like he's closer to imploding than ascending, but he's dallied in the top tier at times. No one wants Deshawn Watson, but, he's clearly more talented than Cousins.

Not to get too deep in the minutia here, because there are numerous reasons to move one, but not a single one of those guys mentioned makes that play Cousins did to end the season. The best of them would have known the TE was way short of the line to gain and changed the route in the huddle or at the line of scrimmage. Most of the rest would have rather thrown it to a WR, even if he was covered. But every single one of them would have been able to escape that pressure, and even if the TE was the only option to throw to, the other QBs would have made the LB commit to covering the TE, or coming to the line of scrimmage to tackle the QB, and whichever option the TE chose, the QB would have made him pay by doing the opposite.

I'd guess the Vikings would love to find a guy like that ...... What makes you think they don't? They just won 13 games, do you really expect them to cut Kirk, hope they suck, and draft a QB next year? Of course not. 

[nicksaviking]

17 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'd guess the Vikings would love to find a guy like that ...... What makes you think they don't? They just won 13 games, do you really expect them to cut Kirk, hope they suck, and draft a QB next year? Of course not. 

I think they do want to find that guy, who wouldn't, but like most coaches and front offices, I'd bet they're not willing to make the sacrifices needed to get him. I don't think they'll cut Kirk. and I think they're likely to be average next year, maybe a bit worse.

But I also think it's unlikely they'll ever get that elite QB if they don't get a top pick. And I don't like it. I'd rather be bad for a couple years followed by a chance to be an actual contender than be average forever.

[Vanimal46]

I hope Kwesi and KOC are smart enough to know last season’s 13 wins were inflated by a ton of luck breaking their way, and a favorable schedule featuring tons of backup QBs. Running it back with a similar roster and a first place schedule in 2023 won’t be as rosy. 

[Mike Sixel]

18 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

I hope Kwesi and KOC are smart enough to know last season’s 13 wins were inflated by a ton of luck breaking their way, and a favorable schedule featuring tons of backup QBs. Running it back with a similar roster and a first place schedule in 2023 won’t be as rosy. 

I'm sure they are. But you can't punt next year. My point is, they won't be fixing QB for at least two years ... To expect otherwise is to set yourself up for disappointment. Are you willing to be awful for one or two years, on the hope you get an elite QB? Easy for is to say yes, we aren't the owners trying to make money, or employees trying to keep our jobs. 

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

I hope Kwesi and KOC are smart enough to know last season’s 13 wins were inflated by a ton of luck breaking their way, and a favorable schedule featuring tons of backup QBs. Running it back with a similar roster and a first place schedule in 2023 won’t be as rosy. 

I feel bad being such a downer after a fun 13-win season, I really do. But I haven't had the feeling that the Vikings actually had a reasonable shot at bringing home the trophy since 2009, and that just doesn't seem fair as a Viking fan. There's so much parity in the NFL, we shouldn't have to wait that long.

[Mike Sixel]

If I was the Vikings, and I was 100% confident the owner had my back......

Trade Kirk for a first or 2nd and 5th next year.

Trade Cook and a 5th for a 4th or 3rd (not that I think a team takes that contract, but they might) next year. 

Trade Thielen for whatever.

Sign JJ and Hockenson to long deals. Sign the best mediocre or average QB I can and promise JJ I'm trading whatever it takes to get the best QB next year.

Trade this year's first for a third (or second if I can) round pick this year and a first next year.

Trade all my firsts next year for the top pick (or highest pick I need to to get an elite QB). Heck, we might be bad enough to get a top pick....

Sign the best Center I can this year with the money (if there is one). Sign the best DL I can this year. 

Draft DL and OL and DB with all my picks this year *unless there is a RB I LOVE after round 3.

Clearly this isn't 100% thought out....but I'd aim to have enough capital to get whatever QB I wanted next year. 

[Parfigliano]

On 2/14/2023 at 12:46 PM, nicksaviking said:

I'd take anything for Dalvin, but man, there are so many free agent RBs this year, a team would have to be nuts or absolutely in love with Cook to part with a draft pick instead grabbing someone else or waiting for the Vikings to cut him.

Running backs are available via draft or free agency.  Games changed.  In a salary cap world spending big money on one nowadays is wasting money.

[Vanimal46]

7 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

I feel bad being such a downer after a fun 13-win season, I really do. But I haven't had the feeling that the Vikings actually had a reasonable shot at bringing home the trophy since 2009, and that just doesn't seem fair as a Viking fan. There's so much parity in the NFL, we shouldn't have to wait that long.

You’re not wrong about being far away from the elite teams. The only reason I thought 2022 could be the Vikings’ year is because of all the luck favoring our team. Can’t say I’ve seen a year where so many things bounced our way. 

It’s becoming damn near impossible to build a SB contending team without either a good QB on a rookie contract, or a HOF caliber expensive veteran. As time moves on, I think the 2021 Rams will look more like an anomaly. 

[LVTwinsfan]

12 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Agree, the rankings are fluid, and Cousins isn't a bad QB. The Vikings are just ready for a top tier QB. They've had one season with a top tier QB since Culpepper was in his prime, and that top tier QB had a grey beard and could barely move. Seems we're way overdue for our turn to have one of those game changing players.

In grey beards defense, the bounty hunters crippled him in that game and he almost beat them single handedly anyways…. and AP wasn’t a lot of help either.….. that’s my rant , sorry

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, LVTwinsfan said:

In grey beards defense, the bounty hunters crippled him in that game and he almost beat them single handedly anyways…. and AP wasn’t a lot of help either.….. that’s my rant , sorry

No doubt, and it was a one year blip in a 20 year drought. We deserve QB play like that for a sustained run.

[gunnarthor]

I saw a mock where the Vikes were going after Richardson, from Florida I believe. Not sure he's your QB of the future but if you like him, sitting him for a year behind Cousins isn't a horrible move. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, gunnarthor said:

I saw a mock where the Vikes were going after Richardson, from Florida I believe. Not sure he's your QB of the future but if you like him, sitting him for a year behind Cousins isn't a horrible move. 

They'd have to move to at least six to be sure, imo. What would that cost? I guess if Vegas signs a long term QB, maybe to nine or so.....

[gunnarthor]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

They'd have to move to at least six to be sure, imo. What would that cost? I guess if Vegas signs a long term QB, maybe to nine or so.....

I think in that mock he fell to the Vikes at 23. I have no idea if that's realistic. We have so few picks, I can't imagine we can trade up. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, gunnarthor said:

I think in that mock he fell to the Vikes at 23. I have no idea if that's realistic. We have so few picks, I can't imagine we can trade up. 

I've seen him first to 13th.....if he falls to 23, they should take him for sure. 

[Mike Sixel]

Brandel re-signed for backup OT duty (or a lot of starts if Darrisaw has more concussion issues).

[gunnarthor]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Brandel re-signed for backup OT duty (or a lot of starts if Darrisaw has more concussion issues).

I was ok with Brandel as a back up. 

[Mike Sixel]

DL Tonga re-signed today.....that's fine.

[nicksaviking]

On 2/15/2023 at 6:34 PM, Vanimal46 said:

You’re not wrong about being far away from the elite teams. The only reason I thought 2022 could be the Vikings’ year is because of all the luck favoring our team. Can’t say I’ve seen a year where so many things bounced our way. 

It’s becoming damn near impossible to build a SB contending team without either a good QB on a rookie contract, or a HOF caliber expensive veteran. As time moves on, I think the 2021 Rams will look more like an anomaly. 

Yeah, and only an anomaly if everyone forgets that Matt Stafford has been a really, really good QB his entire career. I mean he's already top 12 in all time passing yards and TDs. If he plays another three or four years, he'll probably end up top 5. Had he been playing his formative years for the Cowboys or Giants or Patriots, instead of the lowly Lions, he'd probably already be considered a HOF'er.

[nicksaviking]

On 2/16/2023 at 2:39 PM, gunnarthor said:

I think in that mock he fell to the Vikes at 23. I have no idea if that's realistic. We have so few picks, I can't imagine we can trade up. 

Yeah, it seems barely realistic now, and Richardson is going to put on a show at the combine and during workouts. I wouldn't be surprised if his crazy athletic talent ends up putting him as the #2 QB come draft day.

Either way, I'm game for getting a QB in this draft, even if it means trading up. It's not going to be the fashionable decision, but this looks like a pretty dang good QB draft class, in the rare years the Vikings find themselves in the top 10, it's usually a bad draft class. 2024 doesn't look nearly as good, and regardless of which players stay and which go, I could see the Vikings picking early in 2024. Don't want to reach for a Christian Ponder next year just because that's the year you finally need one for certain.