Saunders

[twinsnorth49]

OMG, how slow is an offseason when we cry and wine about NOT signing something called Joe Saunders. Get a life people. You would have been mad if we did sign him becaus we spent too much. Pessimists are the worst humans on earth and it sucks that I as a Twins fan, am grouped with you.

 

I would wonder if you got up on the wrong side of the bed since the posts of yours I d see tend to be derisive comments with no real addition to the knowledge or initial subject of the thread. Then I looked at your avatar and realized you probably just need to get out of your shell and grow up.

 

The initial post was completely void of knowledge or quantifiable subject matter, thus it deserved all the derision it deserved.

[snepp]

I would wonder if you got up on the wrong side of the bed since the posts of yours I d see tend to be derisive comments with no real addition to the knowledge or initial subject of the thread. Then I looked at your avatar and realized you probably just need to get out of your shell and grow up.

 

Given the content of the post I was responding to, and the response from others to his little rant, I won't be losing any sleep over it.

[johnnydakota]

The Twins just can't give away their money, it seems. I think I heard that somewhere before, too.

 

amy farrah fowler sure blossumed

[johnnydakota]

If it helps, feel free to consider yourself not grouped with me.

 

Can i add my name to that petition? not to be grouped with the rose color glass wearing koolaid guzzling fans

I love MY Minnesota Twins almost as much as i do MY country USA, just not always happy with leadership

[johnnydakota]

I'm mostly with you. The Twins missed out on a lefthanded Kevin Correia and people are upset. I personally would have been upset if they went two years and that is what it would have taken.

 

If they signed Saunders in December people would have bitched. If they signed someone else people would have bitched. If they sign no one people bitch. It's the nature of a message board.

 

As i read this i only see

 

blah blah blah BITCHblah blah BITCH blah BITCH

[The Wise One]

Given the content of the post I was responding to, and the response from others to his little rant, I won't be losing any sleep over it.

 

I doubt you would. But wouldn't it have been more prudent just to ignore a post than tell someone to go away? Or is it there is only one uniform message allowed here ?

[TheLeviathan]

I doubt you would. But wouldn't it have been more prudent just to ignore a post than tell someone to go away? Or is it there is only one uniform message allowed here ?

 

Wouldn't that be good advice for the original post? No one is shouting down his optimism, some reading comprehension may be a "wise" move.

[The Wise One]

Does Twins Daily stand for a new way "daily" for some to insult people who aren't currently parking their lawn chair in downtown Minneapolis for the October World Series parade?

 

Coming from you, that is funny. Could not one contend from most of your posts that Twins Daily stands for if you don't agree with Leviathan then you are an idiot. Then the threads run down a path of bickering.

[Highabove]

I would not be that offended if Gibson started in the minors but I don't think it's a requirement. If he is as good as we hope he is he should be locked up before he hits free agency.

 

I have no problem with the position that Saunders is better than Correia, but I don't think it is much of a difference. I didn't especially want either of them.

 

For your last point that is fine, but you are basically asking Ryan to do the impossible. The Twins are still a business, they have to sell some hope to maintain a season ticket base and a renewal of corporate sponsors. If a savvy fan of the type that are found on this message board gets roped in by a few throwaway lines at a season ticket holder function that's their problem. They just had 63 and 66 win seasons, I can't imagine how people could have such high expectations for this offseason.

 

I personally saw them doing the following this offseason:

-trade for a pitcher. Worley fits that bill.

-sign a free agent that will provide stable innings. They chose Correia. I definitely preferred McCarthy and/or Marcum, but generally see the rest of the guys who signed one or two year deals as more or less the same. I didn't want the contracts of anyone that signed for more than two years.

-sign a guy coming off an injury. I thought it would be Baker but I see Pelfrey as an acceptable alternative.

-sign a minor league contract or two. Harden, a few bullpen arms.

-trade if value is there. They did fine on Span and great on Revere.

-plug another guy or two on one year deals depending on the market. This hasn't exactly worked out, but as fans we don't have great information on this.

 

I always saw this year as a consolidation year, 2014 as the movement year and 2015 as the year they compete in the Central. I didn't really care what Ryan said to sell tickets. I don't agree with all the moves (mostly Correia), but I'm more or less satisfied with the offseason.

 

 

Some of us must have been dumb and delusional to believe that a serious effort was going to be made to improve the Product. There is only so much you can do with 27 million dollars.

 

"Stupid is as stupid does" Forrest Gump 6/23/94

 

.

[TheLeviathan]

Coming from you, that is funny. Could not one contend from most of your posts that Twins Daily stands for if you don't agree with Leviathan then you are an idiot. Then the threads run down a path of bickering.

 

You can contend whatever you'd like. I guess I'll just have to bask in the wisdom of criticizing people whose post you don't agree with because they were criticizing a post they don't agree with. I mean, if you're ok with ridiculous hypocrisy and all.

[PseudoSABR]

Guys, will anyone group with me?

[Kwak]

"Consolidate in 2013" Exactly what was consolidated? Two new OFers with no assurance that any of them (including Willingham) will be there in 2015 (the "compete year"). Of the MLB-experienced pitchers acquired this off-season only one is anticipated to be in the rotation in 2015. This would increase the planned players to two. The entire INF could be changed for 2015. Flux would be a closer description for 2013 than consolidate.

"Movement in 2014"--this statement is vague. In a Polyanna-ish view it means a repeat of the 2001 season. It could also mean when the FO expels the rest of the feces from the Active Roster, or anything in-betweenthe two statements.

"Compete in 2015"--we all hope that this occurs, but the 2012 season and its' off-season make this more of a wish than an expectation.

 

Not signing Saunders "clears a path" for the Twins to give Blackburn another shot--Nishioka got one last year--and Blackburn had demonstrated some success in years past, as opposed to you-know-who.

[old nurse]

You can contend whatever you'd like. I guess I'll just have to bask in the wisdom of criticizing people whose post you don't agree with because they were criticizing a post they don't agree with. I mean, if you're ok with ridiculous hypocrisy and all.

pot meets kettle once again

[glunn]

I am willing to group with anyone who is a fellow Twins fan, but I wish that there was more baseball talk and less bickering.

 

I was hoping for Saunders, but life goes on and it may turn out that we are better off without him.

[Riverbrian]

I am willing to group with anyone who is a fellow Twins fan, but I wish that there was more baseball talk and less bickering.

 

I was hoping for Saunders, but life goes on and it may turn out that we are better off without him.

 

Glunn... You are in my group. I'm getting Shirts made and everything.

[TheLeviathan]

pot meets kettle once again

 

Well, except for the fact that I could care less about people criticizing each other. It's a message board, it's rather silly to suggest people should ignore everything they disagree with. If that's your bit, you're probably at the wrong place.

[drjim]

"Consolidate in 2013" Exactly what was consolidated? Two new OFers with no assurance that any of them (including Willingham) will be there in 2015 (the "compete year"). Of the MLB-experienced pitchers acquired this off-season only one is anticipated to be in the rotation in 2015. This would increase the planned players to two. The entire INF could be changed for 2015. Flux would be a closer description for 2013 than consolidate.

"Movement in 2014"--this statement is vague. In a Polyanna-ish view it means a repeat of the 2001 season. It could also mean when the FO expels the rest of the feces from the Active Roster, or anything in-betweenthe two statements.

"Compete in 2015"--we all hope that this occurs, but the 2012 season and its' off-season make this more of a wish than an expectation.

 

Not signing Saunders "clears a path" for the Twins to give Blackburn another shot--Nishioka got one last year--and Blackburn had demonstrated some success in years past, as opposed to you-know-who.

 

By consolidate I mean trying to find out exactly what you have in Plouffe, Dozier, Parmelee, Hendriks, Benson, Diamond, Worley and seeing if they can be a part of the future. Start to break in the next wave of Gibson, Hicks, possibly Arcia/May/Meyer. Potentially trade Willingham, Morneau, maybe Perkins or Burton.

 

By movement in 2014 I mean sorting out the above and starting to make a legitimate jump in the standings to the 80s in wins. Might have to sign an actual free agent or make a trade if some of the people listed above flop. Arica/May/Meyer/(maybe first round pick this year) should start to be a part of the squad and potentially Sano if he truly is a beast.

 

Competition in 2015 is all of this coming together, especially the pitching.

 

I concede this is a little optimistic but I still see it as a reasonable outcome. If everything falls apart this year and none of those players prove they can be big leaguers, it will be a much longer rebuild.

[Rosterman]

You never have enough pitching.

 

For all the want of giving Blackburn another shot, he is still going to be delayed with an injury and not on the 40-man. If he returns, someone has to go. Same if you add any of the group of Walters, Deduno, Vasquez, Elarton and especially Harden.

 

Right now it looks like the Twins MAY start the season with Diamond and Swarzak on the DL.

 

We won't know the state of Gibson and Pelfrey until the season begins.

 

est, but is a Pressly or a Wood or a Roeincke anything more than a spot holder on a roster that a (forgive me) Capps, Rauch or even Hawkins would fill for the same price, but with more experience.

 

Overall, I dream about rebuilding a team from within, but go look at the Twins draft cycles and see how many actually make an impact. More impact is made via adding players by trading veterans, it often seems. And you do have to dip into the free agent pool when able.

 

Target Field was going to make the Twins able to dip into the Free Agent pool as well as keep their own players (i.e. overpay for future performance).

[old nurse]

Well, except for the fact that I could care less about people criticizing each other. It's a message board, it's rather silly to suggest people should ignore everything they disagree with. If that's your bit, you're probably at the wrong place.

You"could care less" yet will not let the matter drop

[edavis0308]

You never have enough pitching.

 

For all the want of giving Blackburn another shot, he is still going to be delayed with an injury and not on the 40-man. If he returns, someone has to go. Same if you add any of the group of Walters, Deduno, Vasquez, Elarton and especially Harden.

Right now it looks like the Twins MAY start the season with Diamond and Swarzak on the DL.

 

We won't know the state of Gibson and Pelfrey until the season begins.

 

est, but is a Pressly or a Wood or a Roeincke anything more than a spot holder on a roster that a (forgive me) Capps, Rauch or even Hawkins would fill for the same price, but with more experience.

 

Overall, I dream about rebuilding a team from within, but go look at the Twins draft cycles and see how many actually make an impact. More impact is made via adding players by trading veterans, it often seems. And you do have to dip into the free agent pool when able.

 

Target Field was going to make the Twins able to dip into the Free Agent pool as well as keep their own players (i.e. overpay for future performance).

 

No! No pitchers will be put on the DL at all this year, especially in April!!

 

Seriously though, I think the is the more realist approach that is kind of the line where optimists and pessimists are falling on each side of the fence. I agree with you. I'm not sold that all the guys slated to start the year in the rotation will stay off the DL to start the year, which is why depth is indeed a wonderful thing. If only the depth was composed of more competent major league pitching. My gut feeling is out of diamond, Worley, pelfrey, and Gibson, at least one is not in the opening day rotation (most likely Gibson). Then there's the Swarzak and Blackburn injuries to consider.

 

edit. Just saw the diamond article maybe not being ready. Well super.

[TheLeviathan]

You"could care less" yet will not let the matter drop

 

Reading comprehension. I understand that message boards come with criticism of ideas and disagreements. This growing trend of posters not liking that people are criticizing positions they disagree with is akin to someone running into a mall, arms flailing, and telling people that this isn't the place to exchange money for goods and services.

[DaveW]

**** I miss BYTO

[twinsnorth49]

The board has been discussing Saunders for quite some time and the merits of signing him or not, this thread began with the news of his signing with the Mariners and subsequently evolved with various opinions on whether it was good or bad for the team, whether it mattered or not, why it mattered, how it represented a further failure and dishonesty from our FO and a host of other viewpoints.

 

Then along comes Twerp, who had no opinion on the issue but does have one about people who are disappointed and disallusioned by yet another lost opportunity, and procedes to call them "the worst type of human being", so just a negative opinion on negative opinions. What exactly did the post contribute to the original subject?

 

So, who began the bickering? Who decided to make things personal and insult people who are unhappy about it and somehow decide they are less than fans? Yet somehow the people who then respond to this garbage are the bad guys. If all those decrying the response to Twerps comments have such high standards for this board then let's at least direct the displeasure in the appropriate place.

[Nick Nelson]

Reading comprehension. I understand that message boards come with criticism of ideas and disagreements. This growing trend of posters not liking that people are criticizing positions they disagree with is akin to someone running into a mall, arms flailing, and telling people that this isn't the place to exchange money for goods and services.

 

You keep generalizing this group "people criticizing positions they disagree with" but really it seems like the only one getting into bickering matches on every thread is you, and it's because of the tone with which you choose to engage people. Fans come to a message board for an exchange of ideas; most do not come to have their thoughts labeled as "insane nonsense" or to be told they have no reading comprehension. It is possible to disagree with people without using such insulting and condescending verbiage. Your points are generally quite reasonable so I don't know why you constantly feel the need to shroud them in contention.

[Nick Nelson]

Anyway... baseball!

[glunn]

Anyway... baseball!

 

Amen.

[DaveW]

As far as Saunders go, it would have been nice to have him, but going much more then 1/7 mil on him wouldn't be a very good move IMO. (Yes, Yes I know we have 20 mil left) but there is never a good reason to over pay greatly for mediocrity. It's clear Saunders preferred to play for the Mariners who have (had) a pitchers park and actually appear like they can contend this year. Sure the Twins could have came in and gave him 1 year 9-10 mil to get him in Minnesota but I think that ends up hurting them in the long run as it sort of skews the market prices for pitchers heading into 2014 (if that makes sense?)

 

At this point, let's roll with what we have, I am sure there will be some more waiver pick ups, cuts in spring training that we can bring in as wlel. For some reason when expectations are at an all time low this team defies them, its when expectations are sky high they break our heart. Let's see what we got this year, maybe we can surprise folks, maybe we suck, either way gear up for a nice run in 2014-2016 when guys like Meyer, Arcia, May, Hicks, an co are all coming up.

[TheLeviathan]

"people criticizing positions they disagree with" .

 

Before your uppity sermon...did you read the thread? Twerp's post and the subsequent lectures by "Wise One" are the problem. This seems like a petty way to take a high-and-mighty stance after your inane posts in the Plouffe thread. Hope it made you feel better, but it was quite hollow.

 

And as twinsnorth suggested, you're now directing this at me because of your own bad blood rather than at the real culprit in this thread. Which seems like it is becoming more and more prevalent. Other than Bonnes recent little poem-play - anyone with pessimism who is attacked you look the other way. Any time someone with optimism is attacked you come riding in with this high and mighty crap. The vibe around here is essentially that you and others are endorsing unfair criticism on people not feeling good aobut this season and are quick to give these lectures to anyone who responds.

 

Talk about condescending.

[ThePuck]

Before your uppity sermon...did you read the thread? Twerp's post and the subsequent lectures by "Wise One" are the problem. This seems like a petty way to take a high-and-mighty stance after your inane posts in the Plouffe thread. Hope it made you feel better, but it was quite hollow.

 

And as twinsnorth suggested, you're now directing this at me because of your own bad blood rather than at the real culprit in this thread. Which seems like it is becoming more and more prevalent. Other than Bonnes recent little poem-play - anyone with pessimism who is attacked you look the other way. Any time someone with optimism is attacked you come riding in with this high and mighty crap. The vibe around here is essentially that you and others are endorsing unfair criticism on people not feeling good aobut this season and are quick to give these lectures to anyone who responds.

 

Talk about condescending.

 

 

It's like in football...the guy who takes the shot first, gets away with it.

 

Or, you know, maybe it's a matter of ignoring the person who takes the first shot because they agree with what he said (regardless of how he said it..and in Twerps case, extremely, over-the-top rude...deserving of getting completely slammed) and instead criticizing the people who take offense to such an offensive childish post.

[70charger]

Guys, will anyone group with me?

 

Will you bring the beer?