Marlins are Ridiculous (Johnson, Buehrle, Reyes and more)

[ThePuck]

 

This is one of the most idiotic things i have ever seen. The Blue Jays just added 50 million in payroll. Be realistic here, there is no way the Twins would up the payroll to 125 + million......cmon now....

 

So, it's unrealistic to have the team raise payroll from 112.7M in 2011 to 125+M in 2013.

 

We can drop payroll by 18M like we did last year...which also gave us a payroll lower than what we had in 2010...but it's ridiculous to expect them to spend 125M+? If done smartly, why is this too much to ask them to do? Won't happen, of course, but why is it ridiculous to feel they should

[old nurse]

 

This is one of the most idiotic things i have ever seen. The Blue Jays just added 50 million in payroll. Be realistic here, there is no way the Twins would up the payroll to 125 + million......cmon now....

 

So, it's unrealistic to have the team raise payroll from 112.7M in 2011 to 125+M in 2013.

 

We can drop payroll by 18M like we did last year...which also gave us a payroll lower than what we had in 2010...but it's ridiculous to expect them to spend 125M+? If done smartly, why is this too much to ask them to do? Won't happen, of course, but why is it ridiculous to feel they should

If the Twins were adding 50 million in payroll it would push the budget to 150, not 125 million.

[ThePuck]

 

This is one of the most idiotic things i have ever seen. The Blue Jays just added 50 million in payroll. Be realistic here, there is no way the Twins would up the payroll to 125 + million......cmon now....

 

So, it's unrealistic to have the team raise payroll from 112.7M in 2011 to 125+M in 2013.

 

We can drop payroll by 18M like we did last year...which also gave us a payroll lower than what we had in 2010...but it's ridiculous to expect them to spend 125M+? If done smartly, why is this too much to ask them to do? Won't happen, of course, but why is it ridiculous to feel they should

If the Twins were adding 50 million in payroll it would push the budget to 150, not 125 million.

 

The number HE quoted was 125+M...THAT is the number I'm talking about.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com hears that Ricky Nolasco could be the next Marlin traded.

 

The Marlins are already poised to dump $40 million in salary for 2013 on the Blue Jays, and if they can find someone to take on Nolasco's contract, it would make sense to go ahead and continue the firesale. The right-hander is due $11.5 million in 2013 after posting a 4.48 ERA and 125/47 K/BB ratio over 191 innings in 2012.

 

 

Source: Ken Rosenthal on Twitter

 

Nolasco's K/9 rate has gone from 9.5 in 2009 to 5.9 in 2012.

 

Ouch.

[old nurse]

 

This is one of the most idiotic things i have ever seen. The Blue Jays just added 50 million in payroll. Be realistic here, there is no way the Twins would up the payroll to 125 + million......cmon now....

 

So, it's unrealistic to have the team raise payroll from 112.7M in 2011 to 125+M in 2013.

 

We can drop payroll by 18M like we did last year...which also gave us a payroll lower than what we had in 2010...but it's ridiculous to expect them to spend 125M+? If done smartly, why is this too much to ask them to do? Won't happen, of course, but why is it ridiculous to feel they should

If the Twins were adding 50 million in payroll it would push the budget to 150, not 125 million.

 

The number HE quoted was 125+M...THAT is the number I'm talking about.

 

Okay, I will comment on your comment then. The Twins are a business. They are not going to spend money just to spend money. Marquis and Zumaya were risks/reward that went bust. More than likely, there was nothing else out there that Ryan liked for the money. Part two. "If done smartly" Different things posted by the people coordinating this site would lead me to believe that Ryan has a budget and an upper limit if spent wisely.

[ThePuck]

We're always shopping for blue light specials...yes, last year we got Willingham, Doumit and Carroll (none of them too heavily sought out based on what we paid), but we also lost Nathan, Cuddyer, Kubel and a couple others. Did we come out ahead? Maybe a little bit, especially when you consider the difference in pay, but we didn't take that saved money and do anything to address our biggest need.

 

If people wanna give Ryan a pass for not spending...especially to acquire much needed pitching that everyone and his brother knew we needed, that's their choice. I choose not to do that. I choose not to keep saying, 'well, that guy wasn't worth that anyway' every time we see someone signed that we really could have used. I've done enough of that over the years

 

An unfortunate part of today's game is that, in order to acquire quality pitching, you have to overspend...cause the people you're competing with will. Ryan sliced out payroll and did nothing to help our most glaring need...pitching.

[Brandon]

We'll probably get 2 solid starters and sign Livan Hernandez to round out the rotation. Maybe they'll finish the job next offseason maybe they will wait for players to develop and promote from within. maybe we are aiming to be a .500 club to placate a fan base. Either way the Twins will make the moves that they see as reasonable that will do the most that they feel they can with what they have to make us competetive. At least we are not Marlins fans.

 

MLB should force ownership change there. I also hope they average less than 1000 fans per game until that happens for attendance.

[ThePuck]

We'll probably get 2 solid starters and sign Livan Hernandez to round out the rotation. Maybe they'll finish the job next offseason maybe they will wait for players to develop and promote from within. maybe we are aiming to be a .500 club to placate a fan base. Either way the Twins will make the moves that they see as reasonable that will do the most that they feel they can with what they have to make us competetive. At least we are not Marlins fans.

 

MLB should force ownership change there. I also hope they average less than 1000 fans per game until that happens for attendance.

 

What constitutes 2 solid starters?

[Riverbrian]

Thank God the Vikings have the go ahead for a new stadium... This type of ownership action could put a monkey wrench in stadium deals across the country in all sports. It smells of legal theft. It won't be good for the health of baseball in Southern Florida. Major perception problem to come.

 

As for the trade... It looks like the Marlins got a package that would have been worth Jose Reyes alone but I really have nothing to judge it against... This is one of the largest trades ever so its unprecedented.

 

It's a stunner... I just wonder if the Marlins could have gotten more by sending pieces across the league. Instead one large deal like this.

[nicksaviking]

Thank God the Vikings have the go ahead for a new stadium... This type of ownership action could put a monkey wrench in stadium deals across the country in all sports. It smells of legal theft. It won't be good for the health of baseball in Southern Florida. Major perception problem to come.

 

As for the trade... It looks like the Marlins got a package that would have been worth Jose Reyes alone but I really have nothing to judge it against... This is one of the largest trades ever so its unprecedented.

 

It's a stunner... I just wonder if the Marlins could have gotten more by sending pieces across the league. Instead one large deal like this.

 

You'd have to think so. I assume the Blue Jays didn't have to give up the farm because of their willingness to take on all that salary. Had the salary been spread over three teams it would not have been much of an issue for the buyers. Seriously, how do the Marlins not come away with either of Toronto's young catchers OR one of the Jay's top two pitching prospects? The only possible hard thrower they got is in A ball and the only player with possible offensive upside looked terrible in his AA call up last year. If I was a Marlins fan I'd be in revolt.

[Winston Smith]

The Marlins lost 183 games the last 2 years and have decided what they were doing doesn't work. Trading all these guys, clearing payroll and bringing in some prospects may or may not work but they are moving in a new direction. Some young players to work with and a lot of money to spend or pocket could work, they have made this work before. I wish Red luck, gonna be a long year for him.

 

The Twins lost 195 games the last 2 years and at this point they haven't really shown what the plan is for fixing it. The Marlins decided to blow things up and it appears that the Ryan approach will be using bandaids.

 

Making radical changes when things are bad or staying the course hoping for better times that is the conundrum. Time will tell.

[old nurse]

Vodka Dave must be on suicide watch as the Marlins gave away Josh Johnson for almost nothing.

 

I think it would be a safe assumption in talks with other clubs the Marlins were asked for money. The money saved in this trade seems more valuable to the Marlins than the players received in return. The package received might have been worth only one of the major players involved from a talent standpoint, but the trade was about money. The Marlins will not lose more of it with the trade.

 

Free agents will still sign with Miami if the money is offered. Any of the players they signed should have known the Marlin's history. It will happen again.

 

Lastly, the Marlins had a poor record with these players and the others that were traded at the deadline. I would say they are starting over like an expansion franchise and hoping to get as lucky as the Nationals did in consecutive drafts.

[kab21]

This salary dump is really ugly from a PR perspective but the backloaded aspect of Buehrle and Reyes salary are pretty good reasons for them to do this deal. And they did pick up some decent prospects. they aren't great but they have 3 prospects with pretty good upside.

[AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS]

 

This is one of the most idiotic things i have ever seen. The Blue Jays just added 50 million in payroll. Be realistic here, there is no way the Twins would up the payroll to 125 + million......cmon now....

 

So, it's unrealistic to have the team raise payroll from 112.7M in 2011 to 125+M in 2013.

 

We can drop payroll by 18M like we did last year...which also gave us a payroll lower than what we had in 2010...but it's ridiculous to expect them to spend 125M+? If done smartly, why is this too much to ask them to do? Won't happen, of course, but why is it ridiculous to feel they should

If the Twins were adding 50 million in payroll it would push the budget to 150, not 125 million.

 

 

 

Ummm hello....whats the Twins payroll as of right now somewhere in vicinity of 75 million so if we add 50 million it would be about 125 million, i wasnt talking about our payroll last season during the season, im talking about now that certain contracts are off the payroll and whatnot. Its the Twins...if we are lucky we will see them spend maybe....maybe 115 million at the most, the 1112.7 was a complete aberration and you can make a likely bet it sure as heck is not happening this year and it likely never will.

[Rosterman]

Plus, we get two top of the rotation starters, largely keep everyone else intact, have room for Hendriks and Gibson in the back of the rotation. Next year, have to find another starter, can trade/lose Morneau and Span, contemplate replacing Willingham. Right now, the Twins roster (like the Marlins) sits at 32 players....20 whom are largely major league regular worthy. The Blue Jays sit at 40 before the trade, so they have to jettison some players (watch the waiver wire...Adam Lind available again?) It was a good way to fill the roster...and who says you can't turn around and trade ANY of those guys if it doesn't work this mid-season or the off-season.

[ThePuck]

Ummm hello....whats the Twins payroll as of right now somewhere in vicinity of 75 million so if we add 50 million it would be about 125 million, i wasnt talking about our payroll last season during the season, im talking about now that certain contracts are off the payroll and whatnot. Its the Twins...if we are lucky we will see them spend maybe....maybe 115 million at the most, the 1112.7 was a complete aberration and you can make a likely bet it sure as heck is not happening this year and it likely never will.

 

None of that makes it ridiculous to feel that they SHOULD be able to spend 125+M. We know realistically they won't...I already said that...but that doesn't make it ridiculous to think that we should be spending more, based on what the tax payers were told when the team was begging for a new stadium to be mostly funded by the taxpayers.

 

Our payroll in 2007 was 71+M. That was 6 seasons ago. Think about how much salaries have gone up in 6 years. They fandangled a new stadium and team salary last year was 94M? 23M dollar increase...less than 4M per season on average...you think that covers increase in salaries around the league? AND they have a new ballpark, with all the increased revenue.

 

It's a good thing the new ballpark was paid for so we could add a whopping 23M to the payroll...

[Guest USAFChief]

There is no reason the Twins couldn't have a $125m payroll, other than ownership chooses not to.

 

There is no salary cap, and revenues clearly support that level of spending. They choose instead to use revenues to pay for their share of stadium costs, rather than contribute their own money as they said they would. All while still pulling annual operating profits out of the club as well as having the value of the franchise double almost overnight.

 

if you're OK with that, fine. I'm not. That's not what ownership that wants to win would do, much less ownership that feels obligated to living up to the promises they made when negotiating for a new stadium.

[AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS]

Ummm hello....whats the Twins payroll as of right now somewhere in vicinity of 75 million so if we add 50 million it would be about 125 million, i wasnt talking about our payroll last season during the season, im talking about now that certain contracts are off the payroll and whatnot. Its the Twins...if we are lucky we will see them spend maybe....maybe 115 million at the most, the 1112.7 was a complete aberration and you can make a likely bet it sure as heck is not happening this year and it likely never will.

 

None of that makes it ridiculous to feel that they SHOULD be able to spend 125+M. We know realistically they won't...I already said that...but that doesn't make it ridiculous to think that we should be spending more, based on what the tax payers were told when the team was begging for a new stadium to be mostly funded by the taxpayers.

 

Our payroll in 2007 was 71+M. That was 6 seasons ago. Think about how much salaries have gone up in 6 years. They fandangled a new stadium and team salary last year was 94M? 23M dollar increase...less than 4M per season on average...you think that covers increase in salaries around the league? AND they have a new ballpark, with all the increased revenue.

 

It's a good thing the new ballpark was paid for so we could add a whopping 23M to the payroll...

 

We all knew it would happen. Loria just like Pohlad are cheap as hell. Pohlad pulled a fast one on Minnesota and Loria pulled a colassal fast one on Miami. Either way as long as Pohlad owns the twins we will always be a cheap team.

[righty8383]

We all knew it would happen. Loria just like Pohlad are cheap as hell. Pohlad pulled a fast one on Minnesota and Loria pulled a colassal fast one on Miami. Either way as long as Pohlad owns the twins we will always be a cheap team.

 

Totally disagree...The Pohlads are not my favorite choice for owners either, but I would take them any day over Loria. Loria is a shameless pig and a thief. He's a leach on major League baseball and if I were another owner I would take any steps necessary to have him removed as owner of the Marlins

[AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS]

We all knew it would happen. Loria just like Pohlad are cheap as hell. Pohlad pulled a fast one on Minnesota and Loria pulled a colassal fast one on Miami. Either way as long as Pohlad owns the twins we will always be a cheap team.

 

Totally disagree...The Pohlads are not my favorite choice for owners either, but I would take them any day over Loria. Loria is a shameless pig and a thief. He's a leach on major League baseball and if I were another owner I would take any steps necessary to have him removed as owner of the Marlins

 

I didnt say Pohlad was as bad as Loria. I did say both are cheap as hell. I agree Loria should be removed as an owner, shame on him, shame on Bud Selig.

[Guest USAFChief]

If this deal is so lopsided that the commissioner should be fired, why are people defending the Twins for not making it?

[Fatt Crapps]

At least the city of Miami still has that beautiful stadium they so desperately wanted.

[AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS]

If this deal is so lopsided that the commissioner should be fired, why are people defending the Twins for not making it?

 

Nobody is really defending the Twins for not making it. Its just Twins fans are so use to our front office being complacent that we arent surpised that the Twins did pull this trade off themselves.

[Jim Crikket]

We all knew it would happen. Loria just like Pohlad are cheap as hell. Pohlad pulled a fast one on Minnesota and Loria pulled a colassal fast one on Miami. Either way as long as Pohlad owns the twins we will always be a cheap team.

 

Totally disagree...The Pohlads are not my favorite choice for owners either, but I would take them any day over Loria. Loria is a shameless pig and a thief. He's a leach on major League baseball and if I were another owner I would take any steps necessary to have him removed as owner of the Marlins

 

I've never been one of the knee-jerk over-the-top critics of Twins management and ownership, but I've just got to say this much: While what Loria is doing just one year after opening his new publicly funded ballpark deserves all of the criticism he's getting, I think what the Twins have done over the past two years is not a lot less reprehensible. It's a matter of degrees, certainly, since the Twins jacked up salaries for one year and, since then are apparently allowing it to fall back while making little effort to field a championship caliber team over the course of 2-3 seasons, rather than just one, as Loria is doing.

 

The Baker deal and the Hunter deal, both going for about twice what some folks (including the TwinsCentric crew) projected, along with the Jays' trade, clearly indicate to me that SOME teams are willing to step up immediately and start spending money now rather than waiting until the new MLB media rights deal pumps the additional $25 million in revenues in to their pockets.

 

Spending 50% of revenues on MLB payroll was quite possibly a very legitimate business model for the Metrodome Twins. I've never believed that their expenses rose so much at Target Field that maintaining that model was necessary. There's certainly NO reason that holding back half of the $25 million in additional media revenues that kick in during 2014 is necessary.

 

If the Twins do nothing but shop in the bargain bins and nibble around the edges this offseason, without making any legitimate effort to improve the product on the field in 2013, their ownership very well may deserve to be lumped in with the Jeffrey Lorias of the world. Twins fans, especially those who are paying for most of their new stadium, deserve better just as much as Miami residents do.

[righty8383]

 

I've never been one of the knee-jerk over-the-top critics of Twins management and ownership, but I've just got to say this much: While what Loria is doing just one year after opening his new publicly funded ballpark deserves all of the criticism he's getting, I think what the Twins have done over the past two years is not a lot less reprehensible. It's a matter of degrees, certainly, since the Twins jacked up salaries for one year and, since then are apparently allowing it to fall back while making little effort to field a championship caliber team over the course of 2-3 seasons, rather than just one, as Loria is doing.

 

The Baker deal and the Hunter deal, both going for about twice what some folks (including the TwinsCentric crew) projected, along with the Jays' trade, clearly indicate to me that SOME teams are willing to step up immediately and start spending money now rather than waiting until the new MLB media rights deal pumps the additional $25 million in revenues in to their pockets.

 

Spending 50% of revenues on MLB payroll was quite possibly a very legitimate business model for the Metrodome Twins. I've never believed that their expenses rose so much at Target Field that maintaining that model was necessary. There's certainly NO reason that holding back half of the $25 million in additional media revenues that kick in during 2014 is necessary.

 

If the Twins do nothing but shop in the bargain bins and nibble around the edges this offseason, without making any legitimate effort to improve the product on the field in 2013, their ownership very well may deserve to be lumped in with the Jeffrey Lorias of the world. Twins fans, especially those who are paying for most of their new stadium, deserve better just as much as Miami residents do.

 

Tough to argue with some of your points. I guess my main point is that while the Pohlads may not spend money like we wish they would, at least they aren't taking revenue from other teams (like the Marlins have and soon will again) and put it in thier pockets.

 

Not sure how many fans the Marlins are gonna have left. I do feel sorry for any loyal fans that might remain with that team. Just like a feel bad for anyone that was a loyal Expos fan before Loria alienated that fanbase and ran the team into the ground.

[Top Gun]

Where do you get 50M from? Marlins clearly states it dump 40M plus they throw in 4M so now you are down to 36M.

[JB_Iowa]

The Marlins have been in existence for 20 years and have 2 World Series championships in that time. How many do the Twins have in a similar period? And 1 of those championships was under present ownership (and both came after fire sales).

 

I'm not defending Marlins ownership here but I really think that the Twins need to rethink the 50% policy. There are times for bringing up young players and rebuilding -- and spending less than 50%. Then there are times that the team is mature and the team should be spending significantly more than 50%.

 

There's certainly no reason that the Twins couldn't spend more than 50% on a regular basis (larger revenues should allow you to assign a larger percentage to player personnel) but at a minimum, they need to rethink the overall policy.

[ThePuck]

There's certainly no reason that the Twins couldn't spend more than 50% on a regular basis (larger revenues should allow you to assign a larger percentage to player personnel) but at a minimum, they need to rethink the overall policy.

 

To expect them to do that, one would have to assume their goal is to win a W Series championship...as opposed to creating a team to be competitive within the division

[Top Gun]

The Marlins can't compete with the Nats & Braves so they cash in. They will still probably beat the Mets.

 

 

 

t

[CDog]

If this deal is so lopsided that the commissioner should be fired, why are people defending the Twins for not making it?

 

I have very little idea how good the players the Jays sent the Marlins are, but as I was reading this thread I was asking myself this same question. And it's not even a matter of different posters taking up different extreme sides as there are cases of the same poster making both claims. (That the deal was ridiculous and awful by the Marlins AND that the Twins were wise not to be on the other end of it). I don't get that.