Game Thread: Twins vs Yankees 7/23/19 7:10 CDT

[Reider]

Incredible game, even though the Twins lost. It felt like a playoff game. They were in the game until former Twin Aaron Hicks dove and caught that ball in center field for the final out. There were a lot of mistakes made all around, but there were also some great plays (Polanco @ SS was incredible) and of course, great hitting.

 

It's no secret that the Twins need pitching. If the Twins pitching was at the same level that the hitting was tonight, the Twins would have put that game away handily. I realize that fans are frustrated right now, but the deadline is 8 days away, so lets be patient and see what the front office does over the next 8 days before getting too worked up.

 

If the Twins can go toe to toe with the Yankees without having much of a bull pen, just imagine what they could do if they added a few high end pitchers. The Twins are not lying down or giving up for a second, so why should the fans? The season is not over, it's just beginning.

 

 

 

[jokin]

 

Great so give up Kirilloff for another frustrating guy like Shane Greene now when he could get Ken Giles next week. Sounds solid.

 

Never said give up Kiriloff.

 

Not a fair response.

 

At all.

 

I've actually proposed the opposite. Offer salary relief for players that don't fit into your future plans. Look for teams that run a tight budget, are in the midst of a massive rebuild and/or have a financial incentive to make a move. I don't want a "frustrating guy" as the feature player in a deal, I said take on a salary if the package included the (controllable) guy or guys you really want.

 

I'm assuming Kiriloff will be up by July of 2020.

[TribeAZ13]

 

so you think that was about "who" I do? I meant I don't call people dudes. And I don't use jr high school girls "lol's". And buds. So I don't know why you can't just leave me alone. Too soon. At least for me. Get it?

Leave YOU alone??? u engaged me!  and im certain broke whatever bilaws this forum has.   and You said u dont do dudes... literally verbatim.  am i missing something?  and I sure am not gonna call u sir like i do most, and i would punch myself if i said boss, hoss, etc....dont do dudes...never heard that one...and i generally dislike lol also but it is quite commonplace.  U aint gonna insult my manhood or convince me im a highschooler as Im fully confident u would not say any of the stuff to me.  And yea, that may sound juvenile, but as I said i love life, baseball and all about the peace now...u are very effected by a game..i was whining about tribe losing yea, but im fine after 5 minutes...again, u enganged me and my city/team... to bad u have such a disgruntled attitude currently bc u seem cool enough

[Riverbrian]

 

You're walking right past my point.

 

If "We" all knew since the offseason that the Twins needed another 1 or 2 RP "gets", the FO did, as well.

 

In the past, the Twins never were willing to gamble on trading away prospects,

never recognizing when prospects had peaked and were at prime trade bait value,

given up after 6 years in the minors on players that became prospects.

 

As we have seen recently, the Twins are now in the position of having too many prospects who will likely become Rule 5s or granted free agency.

 

Take on a little more payroll while the window is open, establish the market, instead of reacting too it and settling for the leftovers, or the never-weres.

 

 

I'm willing to bet the Twins are trying to make trades with the new rule 5 guys because I'm willing to assume that the front office has an eye on that. 

 

But I'm also willing to bet that Giants are asking for Royce Lewis every single phone call hoping the Twins front office reacts the way you are.  

 

 

[USAFChief]

 

I don't know... I made a phone call to Lavine but he didn't pick up my call. 

 

You should care what other teams have done or haven't done... because in the long run, it will help stay reasonable about your expectations. 

 

Do you honestly believe the Twins are sitting there going... OK... we got a deal in place... but let's wait until July 31st. Is it possible that nobody has a deal in place and that's why no deal has been announced. 

 

Is it possible that the Twins offered an over pay to the Blue Jays while the Blue Jays are talking to other clubs to see if someone will over pay more.

 

Is it possible that the Twins listened to the Blue Jays over ask and then called the D-Backs to see if they were not over-asking. Is it possible that this type of thing is slowing things down a little... this year and like every year. 

 

I suppose the Twins could walk into that auction room and plunk down 100 bucks for a bottle of wine when the top bid was going twice at 15 bucks... but, I'd want the front office gone at that point. 

If the top bid was going to be 15 bucks, they should have offered 20 long ago. 

 

Because that 20, looks more and more reasonable with each bullpen effort. To me at least. And heaven help the ticket sales dept if they blow this, or get steamrolled in a division series. They'll get roasted, and rightgfully so, IMO. There's an old saying, something about penny wise and pound foolish, that I think might be all to appropriate here.

 

Caution, prudence, and resource guarding are all fine qualities, until they turn into a fear of making a mistake, which becomes the mistake, and it's too late.

[dadams1000]

While I would like to see a move I'm not sold that one or two pitchers is going to make a big difference. It all depends on what they have to give up to get them. They be getting asked to give up to much.

[TribeAZ13]

 

You should carry pepper spray at this hour!

jeez mindcrime, thats a tall wishlist...i think i can solve this "global warming" fake news u speak of by the time ur done walking . haha...cheers

[jokin]

 

I don't know... I made a phone call to Lavine but he didn't pick up my call. 

 

Do you honestly believe the Twins are sitting there going... OK... we got a deal in place... but let's wait until July 31st. Is

 

 

The Twins cleared 4 roster spaces. Isn't it reasonable to assume that there are "conditional" deals already on the table? Why else would you remove proven major leaguers in the midst of playing the toughest part of your schedule?

 

Deals aren't being closed because of an overabundance of overzealous philosophical risk avoidance.

[Riverbrian]

 

If the top bid was going to be 15 bucks, they should have offered 20 long ago. 

 

Because that 20, looks more and more reasonable with each bullpen effort. To me at least. And heaven help the ticket sales dept if they blow this, or get steamrolled in a division series. They'll get roasted, and rightgfully so, IMO. There's an old saying, something about penny wise and pound foolish, that I think might be all to appropriate here.

 

Caution, prudence, and resource guarding are all fine qualities, until they turn into a fear of making a mistake, which becomes the mistake, and it's too late.

 

Even you have to admit that these are concerns over something that hasn't happened yet based upon things that happened a long time ago. 

 

Good God... It's 1:12AM... I'm old and should be trying to sleep off my pulled hamstring. 

 

Good Night

[USAFChief]

 

Even you have to admit that these are concerns over something that hasn't happened yet based upon things that happened a long time ago. 

 

Good God... It's 1:12AM... I'm old and should be trying to sleep off my pulled hamstring. 

 

Good Night

I'm told icing it helps.

[jokin]

 

 

I'm willing to bet the Twins are trying to make trades with the new rule 5 guys because I'm willing to assume that the front office has an eye on that. 

 

But I'm also willing to bet that Giants are asking for Royce Lewis every single phone call hoping the Twins front office reacts the way you are.  

 

Again.

Unfair.

 

You're assuming I propose an emotional response to a problem with a logical solution?

 

My philosophy is don't be a team like the Marlins, trade with them. Find out who's pissed off Billy Beane, ala Donaldson, and pick up the phone.

[Pius Jefferson]

This is what you get with a juiced ball. Taken directly from S.C.

 

26 runs scored. Tied for 7th in a game this season.

35 hits. Tied for 11th most this season.

16 XBH. Teid for 15th most this season.

[DiscGolfer]

Twins FO may have made many types of offers already too but it also takes the other team to agree to the deal also.  You just can't assume the team isn't trying to make deals and you can't force the other team to accept if they happen to like players on a different team.  We don't know all the inside details and never will

[Riverbrian]

 

Again.

Unfair.

 

You're assuming I propose an emotional response to a problem with a logical solution?

 

No I'm not... I know that you are much smarter than that Jokin... And you know I am to. Please don't think that I'm ever minimizing you. 

 

I'm saying that any selling team is going to ask for more than teams are willing to give right now with the hope that they get it. 

 

It's 1:22 and I"M OLD!!!

[jokin]

 

 

Twins FO may have made many types of offers already too but it also takes the other team to agree to the deal also.  You just can't assume the team isn't trying to make deals and you can't force the other team to accept if they happen to like players on a different team.  We don't know all the inside details and never will

 

No one's assuming that.

 

Falvine make the big bucks for bringing home a pennant. Getting deals done- to fill obvious shortcomings (since the offseason!!!) is part of the job description.

 

They don't get a bonus for "trying."

[jokin]

 

 

No I'm not... I know that you are much smarter than that Jokin... And you know I am to. Please don't think that I'm ever minimizing you. 

 

I'm saying that any selling team is going to ask for more than teams are willing to give right now with the hope that they get it. 

 

It's 1:22 and I"M OLD!!!

 

I was just pointing out it's a fallacious argument to assume that falling for the most ridiculous scenario is what I had in mind.

 

I'm just trying to point out the Twins strong points in getting a deal done, as well as their weak points. Right now, it appears the FO is in full risk avoidance mode, trapped in managerial inertia. Outside the box thinking appears to be absent and payroll restrictions imposed by ownership may also be hampering what HAS TO BE DONE if the Twins are to compete in the 2019 postseason.

 

Trading Lewis or Kiriloff at their current professional low-tide would be a monumental error (particularly for a 2-month rental). But what about Jaylin Davis, who is going nuts in Rochester? Or any of their passel of relatively unheralded pitchers in AA and below who are pitching lights out right now?

[DiscGolfer]

They've made lots of moves to try to make the pen better they just haven't worked out and they haven't been the big splashy moves that you want to see.  You never know when you might find a diamond in the rough that turns a corner.  There's still a week left to get deals done.

[crapforks]

This was the epitome of an enjoyable loss for me. This game and the 1-0 game vs Verlander are the highlight of the season thus far, IMO.

 

And I still hate the Yankees with the fire of 1000 suns.

[jokin]

 

On July 31st I expect to hear "there's only two relievers left, the prices just got TOO HIGH!"

 

I'm only half kidding. 

 

I'm thinking that something close to this is what might come about.

 

That's simply a variation on the old Twins mantra the previous Twins braintrust used to use-

letting their media mouthpieces like Sid and Dougie proclaim that they were the next-to-final bidders for a prized free agent:

 

"Oh, we were so close! We just couldn't risk jeopardizing the franchise."

[DiscGolfer]

 

 

 

Trading Lewis or Kiriloff at their current professional low-tide would be a monumental error (particularly for a 2-month rental). But what about Jaylin Davis, who is going nuts in Rochester? Or any of their passel of relatively unheralded pitchers in AA and below who are pitching lights out right now?

 

I would love to see a deal done for these types of players but it takes the other team to agree to this deal also.  But according to various media reports its going to take a lot more than that to land the top players we want to see.

[Pius Jefferson]

 

Another note: Twins have gone 0-4 with bases loaded this series and currently have the worst stats in the league with bases loaded. This isn't a fluke. There is something wrong with their approach. Whether it be nerves or just a lack of confidence. This needs to be addressed.

 

Cron, Schoop, Gonzalez, and Polanco are a combined 3-29. 

[sampleSizeOfOne]

jeez mindcrime, thats a tall wishlist...i think i can solve this "global warming" fake news u speak of by the time ur done walking . haha...cheers

Back from walk. Safe and sound. Rarely feel uncomfortable out and about at this hour. Guess i live in a relatively quiet neighborhood.

 

Hmmm... solving the problem of fake news actually could be more useful than any of the above, well perhaps a mite under world peace. Sure, go for that problem!

 

It's not what we don't know that gets us, it's what we know that just ain't so. (i am sure i am paraphrasing someone, but too lazy to track down who)

 

I look forward to your results.

[sampleSizeOfOne]

Even you have to admit that these are concerns over something that hasn't happened yet based upon things that happened a long time ago.

 

Good God... It's 1:12AM... I'm old and should be trying to sleep off my pulled hamstring.

 

Good Night

Good Night!

 

And if you are old at 1:12AM, i look forward to you being young again in time for tomorrow's game!

[Squirrel]

 

The Twins cleared 4 roster spaces. Isn't it reasonable to assume that there are "conditional" deals already on the table? Why else would you remove proven major leaguers in the midst of playing the toughest part of your schedule?

 

Deals aren't being closed because of an overabundance of overzealous philosophical risk avoidance.

Or ... and I think this is just as possible ... or ... teams know that there are several teams who want what they have and are playing us against one another to maximize return.

 

There aren't a lot of trades happening right now ... at least not major ones. It's frustrating because we need the help now. But as I said in an earlier comment, and the reason I'm more frustrated, is that this could have been addressed in the off-season and wasn't. We could have over-paid for Kimbrel, which I'm frustrated we didn't. And now we are here ... not sure what to expect ... but Falvey-Levine haven't sat as idle as past participants at the trade deadline ... so ... as frustrated and impatient as I am, I have no choice but to wait, watch frustrating ends to some games, before I jump on the 'it's just like it always has been' bandwagon (although I'm not expecting a whole lot here, but still, I'll muster what patience I can to wait and see), and in all that, remind myself over and over ... it's just a game. Because to me ... that's all it is. Yes, I care if we win or lose ... but I'm not going to put myself or anyone else in the hospital over it.

[Twodogs]

Every game the Twins lose due to their bullpen raises the prices of any trades that they will be looking for.

[jokin]

 

Or ... and I think this is just as possible ... or ... teams know that there are several teams who want what they have and are playing us against one another to maximize return.

 

 

 

Yes. It's essentially what I'm saying. The Twins likely have several if/then "deals" on the table. They just have had to goose up the best of the deals to close it/them.

 

Getting an "ace" closer would have been ideal, but even getting 2-3 guys simply more competent than what currently inhabits the roster shouldn't have been this difficult- given the circumstances in the pen that WE ALL KNEW ABOUT since last winter.

 

The Twins FO has been through this procedure. They should have known how to structure it. They gave up Pressley just one year ago for a basket of maybes!

[Squirrel]

Yes. It's essentially what I'm saying. The Twins likely have several if/then "deals" on the table. They just have had to goose up the best of the deals to close it/them.

 

Getting an "ace" closer would have been ideal, but even getting 2-3 guys simply more competent than what currently inhabits the roster shouldn't have been this difficult- given the circumstances in the pen that WE ALL KNEW ABOUT since last winter.

Yep. This is why I said, or tried to, that it frustrates me more it wasn’t dealt in the off season as the trade now stuff is a wait and see game.

 

I don’t think we are on dissimilar pages here. I just don’t expect a deal today, even though I might want one.

[twinsnorth49]

But hey it was fun for the casual fan I guess so

No,real baseball fans enjoyed that game as well, trust me I'm one. Most are mature enough to handle it though, that's the difference.

[sampleSizeOfOne]

No,real baseball fans enjoyed that game as well, trust me I'm one. Most are mature enough to handle it though, that's the difference.

What is this "mature" you speak of?

[ashbury]

What is this "mature" you speak of?