Manny Machado to the Padres

[Don Walcott]

 

I understand your point about how much fun it is to be the underdog and win but since I watched the Padres back in 1977 they have been to the World Series once (according to another poster).

 

Thats some serious underdoging!!! And some really serious management ineptitude!!!

 

There's no need to fear, Underdog is here.

So . . . if I repeat that the Padres have only been to the WS once, that would be three such posts. Would that make it true?

[markos]

This has been a good thread. A couple thoughts:

1 - I would not describe Myers contract as an albatross. He has averaged 2.9 bWAR/600PAs over the past three seasons. His deal, even at $20M/yr for 2020-2022, is not excessive for that kind of production. And because of that, I think he would be very movable if they do need to shed salary. Hosmer's situation is very different.

2 - I kind of agree with the folks questioning the Padre's front office aptitude. Preller clearly did a terrible overall job trying to quickly build a contender a while back. Then they shifted gears and acquired a ton of assets - which is actually the easiest part of the rebuilding process. The trick is to have the player development system in place to actually turn those prospects into productive big league players, and there isn't a ton of evidence yet that they are going to be good at that aspect. This same paragraph could be said about the White Sox as well.

3 - Speaking of rubbing this in the nose of the White Sox fans, an article in The Ringer today pointed out that the White Sox LEFT AN EMPTY LOCKER in between Machado's pals/relatives Jon Jay and Yonder Alonso down at spring training. Oops! https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2019/2/20/18232714/manny-machado-white-sox-whiff-free-agency 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Its really hard to know exactly what contracts were offered but I'll bet if Machado had went to anyone of the three teams that you mentioned and offered to sign for a lot less, if he'd have said 'I want to play for a winner', they'd have made room for him.   We'll never know.  

It would have to be A LOT less, to the point of being unreasonable.

 

The Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers have virtually zero room to add additional salary, per the luxury tax. So in order to "make room" for Machado, they'd have to give away a valuable player (or multiple players) at another position. Moreover, in all 3 cases, Machado could be displacing a cheaper, younger, controllable player at either SS or 3B in the lineup.

 

If Machado signed with the Padres for $300 mil over the Yankees at $290 mil or something, maybe you've got a point that he's choosing money over winning. But evidence suggests the gap would be at least $80 mil or more. I don't think it's fair to impugn a player's motivations because he didn't want to leave $80+ mil on the table.

[Blackjack]

 

So . . . if I repeat that the Padres have only been to the WS once, that would be three such posts. Would that make it true?

Only in you think it is.   Don't forget to tap your ruby slippers together three times.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

1 - I would not describe Myers contract as an albatross. He has averaged 2.9 bWAR/600PAs over the past three seasons. His deal, even at $20M/yr for 2020-2022, is not excessive for that kind of production. And because of that, I think he would be very movable if they do need to shed salary. Hosmer's situation is very different.

Hosmer is much worse, no doubt. Particularly since they had already Myers, a corner player whose best position is probably 1B. The Padres might have to eat a little salary to move Myers for 2020-2022, but it's probably not an albatross.

[Blackjack]

 

 I don't think it's fair to impugn a player's motivations because he didn't want to leave $80+ mil on the table.

 

Let me beat on this dead horse and rephrase it.   He's going to be a very very rich man no matter where he goes but the odds of winning multiple championships in the next ten years would be many times better in New York or Boston.   He was a free agent and could choose wherever he wanted to go and make a lot of money either way, but he chose the path of less championships.   So his motivation is money not championships. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Let me beat on this dead horse and rephrase it.   He's going to be a very very rich man no matter where he goes but the odds of winning multiple championships in the next ten years would be many times better in New York or Boston.   He was a free agent and could choose wherever he wanted to go and make a lot of money either way, but he chose the path of less championships.   So his motivation is money not championships. 

You've got to look at this relative to other MLB players.

 

There has never been an MLB player who has left $80+ mil on the table in pursuit of a championship.

 

So there is nothing in this contract to suggest that Machado's motivation is different than that of any other MLB player.

[Don Walcott]

 

Let me beat on this dead horse and rephrase it.   He's going to be a very very rich man no matter where he goes but the odds of winning multiple championships in the next ten years would be many times better in New York or Boston.   He was a free agent and could choose wherever he wanted to go and make a lot of money either way, but he chose the path of less championships.   So his motivation is money not championships. 

Or maybe he has enough confidence in his abilities that he doesn't need to be a hired gun on a team that is already good enough to win the WS. Maybe he relishes the challenge of bringing an underdog to the WS.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Thats where I'm shaking my head over this deal, the fact that he didn't sign with one of the teams that spend the money every year and has a chance to goto the World Series every year - the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc.  How much money do you really need??   Could you live on 25 million a year??   

 

It tells me that the player is more concerned about the money than he is about winning.    Yes the Padres may make a run in the next few years with all their great (but unproven) prospects but if you really wanted to win on a consistent basis, you wouldn't pick the Padres. 

 

As opposed to the billionaire owners, many of whom inherited their fortunes, and aren't spending to the limit? They clearly care more about money than winning.....

[scottz]

 

Let me beat on this dead horse and rephrase it.   He's going to be a very very rich man no matter where he goes but the odds of winning multiple championships in the next ten years would be many times better in New York or Boston.   He was a free agent and could choose wherever he wanted to go and make a lot of money either way, but he chose the path of less championships.   So his motivation is money not championships. 

Maybe his motivation is that San Diego has a lovely climate nearly 365 days per year.

[Mr. Brooks]

Let me beat on this dead horse and rephrase it. He's going to be a very very rich man no matter where he goes but the odds of winning multiple championships in the next ten years would be many times better in New York or Boston. He was a free agent and could choose wherever he wanted to go and make a lot of money either way, but he chose the path of less championships. So his motivation is money not championships.

This is his job, not a passion project.

[Blackjack]

 

Maybe his motivation is that San Diego has a lovely climate nearly 365 days per year.

Agreed!!! I mentioned that in an earlier post!!

[Tomj14]

 

Let me beat on this dead horse and rephrase it.   He's going to be a very very rich man no matter where he goes but the odds of winning multiple championships in the next ten years would be many times better in New York or Boston.   He was a free agent and could choose wherever he wanted to go and make a lot of money either way, but he chose the path of less championships.   So his motivation is money not championships. 

Lebron gets slammed for chasing championships, and Manny gets slammed for not. Fans love to be hypocrites! (not saying you black jack, just pointing it out)

[nicksaviking]

 

Its really hard to know exactly what contracts were offered but I'll bet if Machado had went to anyone of the three teams that you mentioned and offered to sign for a lot less, if he'd have said 'I want to play for a winner', they'd have made room for him.   We'll never know.  

 

I agree with one of the other posters that said Machado will fade into the woodwork's, except for some all-star games and bad behavior news, because I don't think San Diego management will get it done.      Only time will tell.

 

I don't think San Diego's management will get it done, but I don't think it will be from a lack of trying. They've given out some sizable (but poor in my view) contracts lately, if Preller is a good salesman he could point to their willingness to spend and their touted farm system and convince a free agent that San Diego is in fact in a better spot to continually compete for a championship, even above some of the larger market teams who do not have a good farm system and who are not currently spending money.

 

I think they're destined to crash and burn, but that's not the prevalent view, surely Machado may be one of those convinced otherwise.

[markos]

One additional thought about the Machado signing with the Padres: This move definitely puts the Padres on a similar timeline as the Twins as far as competitive windows go. Considering that the Padres have a similar need for high-end starting pitching, they are going to be direct competitors for any high-end arm (or arms) that becomes available on the trade market over the next 6-24 months.

[SomeGuy]

 

Twins' fans should never forgive this FO for not getting involved in the Machado sweepstakes and letting freaking San Diego get him. Good lord. We could have signed him and still had a lower payroll than last year. 

If entering the sweepstakes means handing out the record contract for American sports I think we can give the FO a pass on this one. 

[Mike Sixel]

Zips projects the Padres as teh 2nd best team in teh NL West, if they sign Kuechel....so how far behind the Twins are they? One pitcher? 

 

With the best farm system in the game.......

[Nine of twelve]

 

and the union. Remember AROD tried to take less money and the union said no. I agree if he would have agreed to say 10/175 to play for NY or LAD, people/fans/players  would have went crazy.

I don't remember for sure, but I believe in ARoid's case he already had a signed contract in place when he was traded to the Yankees. This is not the same thing as signing a new contract as a free agent.

[ewen21]

The usual players (perennial contenders) wanted nothing to do with him. It's not, "Why didn't Manny go with the Red Sox/Yankees/Dodgers?"

 

Manny didn't have the luxury to choose. Now he's on a team throwing stupid money at him because they are desperate to make a splash.

 

San Diego is EXACTLY where he belongs. He's going to make a lot of money playing in a lot of meaningless games. The best thing about this is we hardly ever need to see him.

[biggentleben]

 

The usual players (perennial contenders) wanted nothing to do with him. It's not, "Why didn't Manny go with the Red Sox/Yankees/Dodgers?"

Manny didn't have the luxury to choose. Now he's on a team throwing stupid money at him because they are desperate to make a splash.

San Diego is EXACTLY where he belongs. He's going to make a lot of money playing in a lot of meaningless games. The best thing about this is we hardly ever need to see him.

 

I'm a lifelong Braves fan. The same Braves that have been a top 3 farm system for four years now. I absolutely drool at the Padres talent in their farm system. Many want to rip on Preller, but he's gauged his team well and put in some tremendous pieces along the way. Have some elite young infielders on the way? Get a team leader at first base to give them an excellent target as they adapt to the big leagues. Those guys just about to the majors? Bring in a long-term veteran that can help tutor those players. Have elite depth throughout the system everywhere but 3B? Sign a once-a-generation talent at 3B at just 26 y/o as he's entering free agency.

 

The Padres farm system should be such that they could have half or more of their team on pre-arb deals for the next decade or so if they'd like. These contracts will not hurt them as they begin to contend (and frankly, that division is ripe for someone to take it over as well).

[cmoss84]

Can you imagine if SD had not traded Turner? 

 

An infield of Machado/Tatis jr/Turner/Hosmer.

 

wowza

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Can you imagine if SD had not traded Turner? 

 

An infield of Machado/Tatis jr/Turner/Hosmer.

 

wowza

Tatis Jr. is obviously speculative as a prospect -- but I'm not sure Hosmer contributes much positively to that "wowza".

 

A better hypothetical would probably substitute Myers for Hosmer at 1B, and use the extra money to sign a pitcher.

[biggentleben]

 

Can you imagine if SD had not traded Turner? 

 

An infield of Machado/Tatis jr/Turner/Hosmer.

 

wowza

 

Luis Urias is pretty amazing.

[Don Walcott]

Reading through this thread, I'm kind of amazed at how much animosity there is towards the San Diego Padres. Yeah, the San Diego Padres!! Really? Is it because they signed Manny Machado? I had no idea Twins fans would have an axe to grind with the Padres, of all teams.

 

Or is this about San Diego? Is it the perfect weather? Lovely beaches? Lack of professional championships in any sport? The fact that, other than the Padres, all of their other major sports teams abandoned them?

 

If you are directing your anger toward San Diego, it may be time to address your anger issues.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Reading through this thread, I'm kind of amazed at how much animosity there is towards the San Diego Padres. Yeah, the San Diego Padres!! Really? Is it because they signed Manny Machado? I had no idea Twins fans would have an axe to grind with the Padres, of all teams.

 

FWIW, the Padres front office pulled a stunt a few years ago where they intentionally withheld medical information on players, most notably in the Drew Pomeranz deal with Boston. The GM was punished by MLB but is still in place. I'd guess that influences some of the anti-SD sentiment here.

[Don Walcott]

FWIW, the Padres front office pulled a stunt a few years ago where they intentionally withheld medical information on players, most notably in the Drew Pomeranz deal with Boston. The GM was punished by MLB but is still in place. I'd guess that influences some of the anti-SD sentiment here.

Thanks for that info. Just read about it. Still don’t understand animosity towards the Friars.

[cmoss84]

 

Tatis Jr. is obviously speculative as a prospect -- but I'm not sure Hosmer contributes much positively to that "wowza".

 

A better hypothetical would probably substitute Myers for Hosmer at 1B, and use the extra money to sign a pitcher.

True.

Hosmer's bat obviously hasn't played out, but he is a pretty good 1B. Myers/pitcher would absolutely be a better scenario. 

[cmoss84]

 

Luis Urias is pretty amazing.

I hear he is quite good-just do not know much about him. Heard talk of him leading off for them...

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

True.

Hosmer's bat obviously hasn't played out, but he is a pretty good 1B.

Now I understand, you were largely referring to glovework / defense. The inclusion of Turner should have made that obvious to me, but I was thinking more overall value.