Article: MIN 6, CHW 4: Polanco Does it All

[drjim]

I don't recall having such angst that we were not bringing guys up. Before that final series we had gone 8-3 and we only scored 1 run in each of the last 3 games. Our rotation was full of guys that were slightly better than 4.00 or slightly worse and you don't bring up untested minor league guys to replace 4.00 starters. Do you bring in Berrios as a reliever in high leverage situations? Perkins was our all star that year and it was his implosion as much as anything that cost us that year but it would take a lot of guts to replace him with a rookie. If I was in charge at the time I would have brought up Berrios for one game and that is the spot start that went to May. It really thinned the relief for the next week. This year is a bit different in that we are kind of set for 4 spots but need a 5th guy. Gee didn't do so hot but has had a good year and could be given another shot. I would love to see Gonsalves just to see what he's got but Slegers is on regular rest and kind of deserves another start. When do we find out who the September call ups are?

Not calling up Berrios in 2015 was compared by a national writer to the Nats shutting down Strasburg, and people here agreed. So there was some angst.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Not calling up Berrios in 2015 was compared by a national writer to the Nats shutting down Strasburg, and people here agreed. So there was some angst.

 

And the nats haven't been close since......and I was on the angst side for sure.

[nytwinsfan]

 

Apparently, Polanco is the tertiary adjunct of unimatrix 01 in the White Sox side.

No effing clue what this means, but I like it.

[Dantes929]

 

And the nats haven't been close since......and I was on the angst side for sure.

Um.. they are in first place now and not bringing in a rookie to replace a 4.00 starter compared to a 3.16 ERA guy with a 6 year track record at the time being shut down is a bit of a stretch.    I may have had angst and wanted him called up but the only part I remember is the May start bothering me a bit.

[drjim]

 

And the nats haven't been close since......and I was on the angst side for sure.

 

I thought they should have called up Berrios too, perhaps in a more limited role. Not sure how the poster doesn't remember any angst that year. It was a massive topic!

 

(But the Strasburg comparison from that Fangraphs writer was still one of the most ridiculous Twins related things I've seen from a national writer)

[Craig Arko]

 

Not sure how the poster doesn't remember any angst that year. It was a massive topic!

 

Perhaps it was lost amidst the angst over so many other things.

[drjim]

 

Um.. they are in first place now and not bringing in a rookie to replace a 4.00 starter compared to a 3.16 ERA guy with a 6 year track record at the time being shut down is a bit of a stretch.    I may have had angst and wanted him called up but the only part I remember is the May start bothering me a bit.

 

The May start was an abomination by the front office. Say what you will about them, but I am quite confident the current front office won't make a mistake that egregious in season.

[drjim]

 

Perhaps it was lost amidst the angst over so many other things.

 

Touche

[yarnivek1972]

Definitely growing concerned about the overuse of Hildenberger.

 

Busenitz seems to be doing well. Not sure why he wasn't used in Sunday's game or even last night. Since Sugust 1, Alan has 10 2/3 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 9 K. Sounds like a guy who is prepared for a larger role. The Twins aren't going to get into postseason by relying on 3 relievers in games they are leading.

[Taildragger8791]

 

A bad slide that works because the SS drops the ball is still a double. A double is not contingent on the quality of the slide or how well you hit the ball - it is defined by making it safely into 2B. That happened. Whatever happens after that should be immaterial, no matter if it happens two tenths of a seconds, two seconds or two minutes later.

 

Here's how I see it:

 

In both cases it isn't egregious enough to be an error but the player still failed to complete a close play because of pressure from the opponent, thus the credit goes to the opponent. In one case, the fielders couldn't complete the catch & tag because they rushed knowing the runner was closing in fast, thus the runner gets credit for the double. In the other case, the runner makes a mistake sliding in too aggressively/wildly to beat the tag but he likely only beat the tag because he made a slide that he couldn't complete, thus he doesn't get credit. He was never truly safe because he was never in control. The situation where a guy rounds a bag is different because he passed the bag under control and uncontested.

[USAFChief]

 

A bad slide that works because the SS drops the ball is still a double. A double is not contingent on the quality of the slide or how well you hit the ball - it is defined by making it safely into 2B. That happened. Whatever happens after that should be immaterial, no matter if it happens two tenths of a seconds, two seconds or two minutes later.

 

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/26198-official-scoring-questions-for-stew/page-3

 

Ashbury has taken the time to look up the applicable instructions to official scorers.  Believe it or not, this is covered.

 

And it's a single.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Um.. they are in first place now and not bringing in a rookie to replace a 4.00 starter compared to a 3.16 ERA guy with a 6 year track record at the time being shut down is a bit of a stretch.    I may have had angst and wanted him called up but the only part I remember is the May start bothering me a bit.

 

So, 1 time in how many years?

 

Do we think shutting him down that many years ago, or not, matters now?

[Riverbrian]

 

Apparently, Polanco is the tertiary adjunct of unimatrix 01 in the White Sox side.

 

I don't know what that meant... but... Yeah. I'll go with that. 

[yarnivek1972]

That's the full name of Seven of Nine's borg character from Star Trek Voyager.

 

Polanco has hit 7 of his 9 HR against the Sox...

[Dantes929]

 

Perhaps it was lost amidst the angst over so many other things.

There is always angst and posters always want whatever minor leaguer that is doing well at the moment to get the promotion to save the day.    I am not immune to it.   You make a good point because there is always angst over so many things.   This was true in the WS days though no forum to express it like now.   It was true in 2010 and before.   I wanted Berrios up but I had never seen him just like I wanted Garza up back in 06.   The difference was that Garza gave us a boost with a 5.76 ERA because Silva was having a bad year, and Liriano was gone for the season and it was a risk well worth taking, just like I think it is this year.    Who would you have replaced in favor of Berrios.  What games without the hindsight of seeing whether we won or lost.   Or as a reliever?    Of course I wanted him up but I certainly don't think he makes up 3 games and is probably more likely to have cost us games.   There is almost always a learning curve and if you replace a bad Ricky Nolasco with him there is little risk but if you replace a good Tommy Milone with him you are not helping but hindering your odds.

[Dantes929]

 

So, 1 time in how many years?

 

Do we think shutting him down that many years ago, or not, matters now?

We have no way of knowing.  This will be the 4th time they have made the playoffs in the last 7 years so I am not sure what season you are talking about or if Strasburg would have made the difference but we are off my point anyway.    I don't think comparing Strasburg being shut down to Berrios not being called up was a valid comparison even if some national talking head did compare them.   So using that arguemnt to further the view that Berrios was mishandled is a non starter for me.

[Mike Sixel]

 

We have no way of knowing.  This will be the 4th time they have made the playoffs in the last 7 years so I am not sure what season you are talking about or if Strasburg would have made the difference but we are off my point anyway.    I don't think comparing Strasburg being shut down to Berrios not being called up was a valid comparison even if some national talking head did compare them.   So using that arguemnt to further the view that Berrios was mishandled is a non starter for me.

 

fair.

 

to answer your other question, I would have used him in relief, like some other teams do with some of their pitchers, that year. 

[Dantes929]

 

fair.

 

to answer your other question, I would have used him in relief, like some other teams do with some of their pitchers, that year. 

I am quite positive I would have endorsed that call up whether for spot starts or relief just like I would have loved to see Gonsalves before now.   What sticks in my head that year was putting May to the pen when he had just had a few very good starts and then putting him in for a spot start later in the season which had a ripple effect for the next week or so.   Much like when Kintzler blew that save earlier in this year.   I thought Buxton should have been aggressive on a ball that fell in front of him and not making that catch caused the game to go extra innings which used up a lot of pitchers that could have been rested the next day when they blew a big lead and seemed to contribute to a couple more losses that week.    Some things just stick in your head as turning points.    I don't remember thinking at the end of that year that if only they had used Berrios they could have made the playoffs.    I might have thought that.   I just don't remember having thought that.