Time to DFA Molitor?

[howeda7]

It seems unlikely he's back next year. So maybe arrange for him to step aside or switch roles and give Dougie M. a look.

 

If he does finish the year, I'd like to see some flexibility from him. Like stick with Mauer and Escobar at the top of the line-up and drops Dozier to 5th or 6th. And try Hildenberger at closer rather than running Duffey out there to predictable results. 

[Platoon]

Things he's improved on this year:

 

Molitor is 60 years old. Does he want to come back? Even if he does, it's probably time to move on either way.

 

Anymore age discriminatory comments like this, and I quit listening to Whine Line and instead tune in Steve Cannon on 'CCO.

[Ncgo4]

If they finish anywhere near .500 I think it's hard to get rid of him.

I don't think this is going to be an issue. They are now playing for two goals. Test the kids and improve our draft position.

[Pardon My Dinger]

Molitor isn't a good manager. He's ok, and there isn't any reason to have an ok manager in Major League Baseball.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I missed it.

 

Honest question - is there a link to where Dozier is directly quoted insisting on leading off?

A quick Google turned up this:

 

http://www.inforum.com/sports/4229317-dozier-mauer-learn-about-analytics-how-do-best-lineup

 

"I know sabermetrics and the possibility to drive in more runs and all this. I just love the leadoff spot. Just like Mollie, I like to ignite, get things going. Let's just say you don't play the game on paper."

[Jham]

Molitor never should have been the guy in the first place.  He's actually performed slightly better than I thought he would.  He's provided a steadying force to some degree and had okayish results.  He's supposed to be a baserunning savant, but that has translated.  His bullpen use is shortsighted and, in my opinion, plain reckless.  He yanks his starters too soon leading to overuse of bull pen arms.  Then he only uses half his arms in the pen, leading to overuse, burnout, and injuries.  Perkins, May, Jepsen, guy with the red beard, Pressley, now Rogers and Duffey.  All were used heavily and quickly depleted.  We've seen what Belisle looks like rested vs. overworked.  This is probably why we can look good over a month or two, and then the wheels fall off.  Trust your starters to work out of some early jams and settle.  Have them pitch without looking over their shoulder or knowing they're coming out in the 6th if 1 guy gets on, even if it's a dink or an error.  

His lineup construction has been ok.  He's tinkered.  I'm ok with that.  But he's not fun, inspirational, or firey enough to motivate for 162 plus games, in my opinion.

[Suicide Skweez]

 

He's supposed to be a baserunning savant, but that hasn't translated.  His bullpen use is shortsighted and, in my opinion, plain reckless.  He yanks his starters too soon leading to overuse of bull pen arms. Have them pitch without looking over their shoulder or knowing they're coming out in the 6th if 1 guy gets on, even if it's a dink or an error.  

 But he's not fun, inspirational, or firey enough to motivate for 162 plus games, in my opinion.

The facts quote right here that you mentioned are all big issues I also see with Molitor. He means alot to Minnesota baseball and he's a good guy and all but he simply hasn't been a good manager for this ball club. Time to move on after the season.

[USAFChief]

 

Molitor never should have been the guy in the first place.  He's actually performed slightly better than I thought he would.  He's provided a steadying force to some degree and had okayish results.  He's supposed to be a baserunning savant, but that has translated.  His bullpen use is shortsighted and, in my opinion, plain reckless.  He yanks his starters too soon leading to overuse of bull pen arms.  Then he only uses half his arms in the pen, leading to overuse, burnout, and injuries.  Perkins, May, Jepsen, guy with the red beard, Pressley, now Rogers and Duffey.  All were used heavily and quickly depleted.  We've seen what Belisle looks like rested vs. overworked.  This is probably why we can look good over a month or two, and then the wheels fall off.  Trust your starters to work out of some early jams and settle.  Have them pitch without looking over their shoulder or knowing they're coming out in the 6th if 1 guy gets on, even if it's a dink or an error.  

His lineup construction has been ok.  He's tinkered.  I'm ok with that.  But he's not fun, inspirational, or firey enough to motivate for 162 plus games, in my opinion.

Ha...I would say he tends to leave his starters in too long.  The data is clear about 3rd and 4th time(s) through a lineup.  IMO he waits until the damage is done, THEN removes pitchers.

 

This is why we have internet discussion boards...LOL.

[wavedog]

This issue came up last night in my mind - not with Mejia the starter but with Gee the reliever.  Gee has just pitched 3 solid innings and was at about 60 pitches so coming out for the 8th inning I thought they would bring in another arm as the bullpen was pretty well rested.  But Gee came out and the first 2 batters hit him solidly.   Not sure why you don't come out with Boshers to start the inning with 2 of the 3 hitters being left-handed.  Now we did not end up giving up any runs in this case but that choice struck me as a curios decision.   He doesn't seem to have a good feel on when to leave a guy in or pull him - or maybe it is just our pitching is bad - hard to tell. 

[drjim]

Ha...I would say he tends to leave his starters in too long. The data is clear about 3rd and 4th time(s) through a lineup. IMO he waits until the damage is done, THEN removes pitchers.

 

This is why we have internet discussion boards...LOL.

Does represent a good example of why it's easy to rip on the current guy and assume all of the annoyances will be fixed by a new manager. Just not going to work that way.

[drjim]

This issue came up last night in my mind - not with Mejia the starter but with Gee the reliever. Gee has just pitched 3 solid innings and was at about 60 pitches so coming out for the 8th inning I thought they would bring in another arm as the bullpen was pretty well rested. But Gee came out and the first 2 batters hit him solidly. Not sure why you don't come out with Boshers to start the inning with 2 of the 3 hitters being left-handed. Now we did not end up giving up any runs in this case but that choice struck me as a curios decision. He doesn't seem to have a good feel on when to leave a guy in or pull him - or maybe it is just our pitching is bad - hard to tell.

The pitching staff is bad.

[USAFChief]

 

Does represent a good example of why it's easy to rip on the current guy and assume all of the annoyances will be fixed by a new manager. Just not going to work that way.

Well, not all managers are trying to squeeze all they can from starters.

 

The Dodgers and Astros, for example:  http://m.mlb.com/news/article/245548128/dodgers-astros-not-pushing-starters-deep/

 

 

[drjim]

Well, not all managers are trying to squeeze all they can from starters.

 

The Dodgers and Astros, for example: http://m.mlb.com/news/article/245548128/dodgers-astros-not-pushing-starters-deep/

Which is true and a result of front offices giving their managers the right pieces to work with.

[USAFChief]

 

Which is true and a result of front offices giving their managers the right pieces to work with.

Or front offices and managers making a conscious decision not to blindly bow to tradition, or convention.

 

IMO, the absolute wrong way to get better results from a weak starting staff is to try to wring more outs from them.

 

And while I'm up here on my soapbox, the wrong way to get better results from a weak bullpen is to ignore platoon splits.

[Willihammer]

I'm telling you people, at some point a team will just line up 12 pitchers like batters and go 1-2-3-4 through the order.

Just a matter of time.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'm telling you people, at some point a team will just line up 12 pitchers like batters and go 1-2-3-4 through the order.

Just a matter of time.

 

teams w/o good starters should do something like that, in a planful way. But, so far, no one has planned to do that.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'm telling you people, at some point a team will just line up 12 pitchers like batters and go 1-2-3-4 through the order.

Just a matter of time.

Like, by batter? By inning? Not sure what you mean here...

[wsnydes]

 

Ha...I would say he tends to leave his starters in too long.  The data is clear about 3rd and 4th time(s) through a lineup.  IMO he waits until the damage is done, THEN removes pitchers.

 

This is why we have internet discussion boards...LOL.

I agree.  Instead of letting relievers start their own innings, he brings them into jams all of the time.  Allowing even the mediocre relievers to start their own inning decreases the odds of runs being scored.

 

I realize that is going to happen, but it seems like Molitor likes to give that starter one more batter to start an inning more often than he should and now the reliever has to deal with at least one runner on base already.

[Willihammer]

 

Like, by batter? By inning? Not sure what you mean here...

Just a batting lineup, only with pitchers instead.

 

Should have been more clear. I'm extrapolating from the article above

 

Even the starter Houston did get, Francisco Liriano, will be deployed as a reliever.

Why? Because as we saw last October, when the games really begin to matter, the traditional roles go out the window. "Starters" and "relievers" don't matter nearly so much as "pitchers" do, because it's simply about getting 27 outs as effectively as possible.

 

 

Maybe you make a lineup 9 deep instead of 12. Save 3 of the worst guys for "pinch pitching" to round out innings or guys with extreme LOOGY type splits.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Just a batting lineup, only with pitchers instead.

 

Should have been more clear. I'm extrapolating from the article above

 

 

Maybe you make a lineup 9 deep instead of 12. Save 3 of the worst guys for "pinch pitching" to round out innings or guys with extreme LOOGY type splits.

 

2 legit starters, with 3 RPs backing them up for the last 2-3 innings.

 

that leaves 7-8 pitchers you can rotate around to pitch the other 3 starts thru the rotation. Plus, you can have 2-4 guys in AAA you send up and down. That gives you 10-12 guys to rotate thru 27 innings "a week" or so. 

[Jham]

Ha...I would say he tends to leave his starters in too long. The data is clear about 3rd and 4th time(s) through a lineup. IMO he waits until the damage is done, THEN removes pitchers.

 

This is why we have internet discussion boards...LOL.

I don't disagree. It's more about picking and choosing spots. And also using your entire pen. With a worn out pen, sometimes you need to take lumps or roll the dice. Rain delays early trouble all spell early hooks when other teams save their pens.

[Willihammer]

 

2 legit starters, with 3 RPs backing them up for the last 2-3 innings.

 

that leaves 7-8 pitchers you can rotate around to pitch the other 3 starts thru the rotation. Plus, you can have 2-4 guys in AAA you send up and down. That gives you 10-12 guys to rotate thru 27 innings "a week" or so. 

What if one of your SP's throws 7 to 9 IP in his start and you don't need all 2-3 relievers? Do they get frontloaded onto the lineup? Or inversely, what if the SP gets knocked out after 60 pitches in the third and you have to burn through a bunch of your reserves to finish those game(s). Does the starter have to wait 4 more games to pitch again?

[Mike Sixel]

 

What if one of your SP's throws 7 to 9 IP in his start and you don't need all 2-3 relievers? Do they get frontloaded onto the lineup? Or inversely, what if the SP gets knocked out after 60 pitches in the third and you have to burn through a bunch of your reserves to finish those game(s). Does the starter have to wait 4 more games to pitch again?

 

all good questions! I'm actually working right now, so I can't do the work to answer, but maybe this weekend. I had a detailed proposal on this once, but lost it.

[ahart10]

2 legit starters, with 3 RPs backing them up for the last 2-3 innings.

 

that leaves 7-8 pitchers you can rotate around to pitch the other 3 starts thru the rotation. Plus, you can have 2-4 guys in AAA you send up and down. That gives you 10-12 guys to rotate thru 27 innings "a week" or so.

Don't forget Greene/McCay/Ohtani/Ankiel

[GP830]

By george, I think we've just hacked baseball...